Processor architectures maybe. They put Rust into Debian and it's so bad that now e.g. amd64 is ruined forever for any OS and won't see any new processors in the future. We'll have to move to a different architecture. I didn't watch the video since I treasure my brain cells too much but that's what I choose to read into it.
(A more reasonable reading is that Debian now ships a kernel that includes Rust code and coincidentally has also dropped builds for several obscure architectures but I do not feel obliged to assume reason with a title and thumbnail like that.)
It's 70-80% culture war bullshit, the rest is actual complaints for the language (or at least the use of language) often bundled with culture war bullshit.
Partly it's more of "destroy an ecosystem". Among languages, Rust is at the frontlines of a continuing trend to remove GPL-licensed, community toolkits and put corporate-friendly, AI-friendly toolkits in their place, eg.: replacing grep with openaigrep, which would basically be step 2 in the process of privatizing or corporatizing the Linux ecosystem (and leads to the loss of a number of user freedoms).
Licenses don't matter when corpos don't care anyways. Especially for training LLMs. They don't care about copyright. I choose to use tools based on there merits over simply going "it has my favorite license." Even though I say that, I still prefer AGPL even though I understand that of the corpos want to steal, they'll steal it.
Licenses might not matter now but if enough of a communal current for respect of licenses and of punishment for license breaking ramps up, we might be able to see something like (L)GPL class action suits against large corporations, at which point it becomes possible to at least seek reparation for previous damages.
But as with anything and everything law-related, licenses are declarations of intent. Their validity is only substantiated by the holder's capacity to pursue punishment.
The issue is probably the dropping of support for several obscure architectures used by 3 people combined due to there being no llvm support rust relies on
It is. But I doubt they are used by 3 combined people.
The Debian project needs to keep the machines for compiling and testing. And there's probably no other machine of those architectures available for the enthusiasts to actually use.
Some people just drink the cool aid and decide they have found their new Lord and savior in a programming language. Others just add a new tool to their toolbox.
And some people pretend Rust is literally Satan, because the Code of Conduct, meanwhile companies like Twitter use it, projects like Ladybird use it, etc.
I know. My main grief with it is that it should have been a memory safe language closer in looks and paradigm with C, but many of those alternatives are still new. Would have solved some of the drama surrounding Rust integration.
I am still learning Rust, so I can Not really say that much about it, but especially when considering things like Error handling it seems very good. No more returning invalid values. You just return a Result type and implement error handling based on that.
This may be cheating but yes, sometimes there are cycles in type/generic definitions and the compiler loops their identifiers over and over, nesting them inside each other
I am starting to learn Rust and the only reason I don't intend on using it for GUI stuff for the time being is because I just like QtWidgets a lot and GUI toolkits in Rust are a pretty new thing.
Apart from that, pretty much all logic can benefit from a language that forces people to be more explicit.
Although I won't consider it for larger projects until the borrow checker gets the overhaul it needs, because I'd rather not start hating another language.
What about the borrow checker needs an overhaul? Seems to do it's job quite well. If you want to remove it then you should use like C++ or Zig or something since the borrow checker is fairly fundemenal to the design of the language
45 Comments
Avicenna@programming.dev · 88 pts · 166d
Why would a programming language destroy an operating system?
joulethief@discuss.tchncs.de · 52 pts · 166d
No, no, the architectures! The Debian architecture (apparently)!
Jesus_666@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 166d
Processor architectures maybe. They put Rust into Debian and it's so bad that now e.g. amd64 is ruined forever for any OS and won't see any new processors in the future. We'll have to move to a different architecture. I didn't watch the video since I treasure my brain cells too much but that's what I choose to read into it.
(A more reasonable reading is that Debian now ships a kernel that includes Rust code and coincidentally has also dropped builds for several obscure architectures but I do not feel obliged to assume reason with a title and thumbnail like that.)
MCHEVA4EVA@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 166d
Deb and Ian are going to be so upset!
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 165d
Ian's dead, I don't think Deb did much direct contributing
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 166d
It's 70-80% culture war bullshit, the rest is actual complaints for the language (or at least the use of language) often bundled with culture war bullshit.
onlinepersona@programming.dev · 16 pts · 166d
If your tinfoil is thick enough, no coherent thought can penetrate.
Kacarott@aussie.zone · 10 pts · 165d
No no you misunderstand. The literal servers are oxidising
lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org · 6 pts · 166d
Partly it's more of "destroy an ecosystem". Among languages, Rust is at the frontlines of a continuing trend to remove GPL-licensed, community toolkits and put corporate-friendly, AI-friendly toolkits in their place, eg.: replacing
grepwithopenaigrep, which would basically be step 2 in the process of privatizing or corporatizing the Linux ecosystem (and leads to the loss of a number of user freedoms).fruitcantfly@programming.dev · 19 pts · 166d
Hopefully nobody tells the corpos that they can just use BSD if they want a MIT licensed kernel and user-land
Neptr@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 166d
Licenses don't matter when corpos don't care anyways. Especially for training LLMs. They don't care about copyright. I choose to use tools based on there merits over simply going "it has my favorite license." Even though I say that, I still prefer AGPL even though I understand that of the corpos want to steal, they'll steal it.
lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org · 5 pts · 166d
That's true, for now.
Licenses might not matter now but if enough of a communal current for respect of licenses and of punishment for license breaking ramps up, we might be able to see something like (L)GPL class action suits against large corporations, at which point it becomes possible to at least seek reparation for previous damages.
But as with anything and everything law-related, licenses are declarations of intent. Their validity is only substantiated by the holder's capacity to pursue punishment.
protogen420@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 166d
I think this is about how apt will depend on rust and then debian will need to drop some architetures it supports
caseyweederman@lemmy.ca · 80 pts · 166d
The art was generated by AI, and likely the content and the text. Why are you all taking this so seriously?
onlinepersona@programming.dev · 22 pts · 166d
*Looks at community name.* Seriously?
menas@lemmy.wtf · 19 pts · 166d
I don't know about rust being an issue for debian; but AI is sure an issue. Weird move
conorab@lemmy.conorab.com · 16 pts · 166d
Not that it impacts the validity of what he’s saying but the art the robot destroying Debian is using the logo for Rust the game, not the language.
HyperfocusSurfer@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 166d
The issue is probably the dropping of support for several obscure architectures used by 3 people combined due to there being no llvm support rust relies on
marcos@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 166d
It is. But I doubt they are used by 3 combined people.
The Debian project needs to keep the machines for compiling and testing. And there's probably no other machine of those architectures available for the enthusiasts to actually use.
trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 166d
Some people just drink the cool aid and decide they have found their new Lord and savior in a programming language. Others just add a new tool to their toolbox.
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world · 47 pts · 166d
And some people pretend Rust is literally Satan, because the Code of Conduct, meanwhile companies like Twitter use it, projects like Ladybird use it, etc.
cows_are_underrated@feddit.org · 18 pts · 166d
The Linux Kernel uses it too. Its not a hype, and adoption is happening in real time.
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 166d
I know. My main grief with it is that it should have been a memory safe language closer in looks and paradigm with C, but many of those alternatives are still new. Would have solved some of the drama surrounding Rust integration.
cows_are_underrated@feddit.org · 3 pts · 166d
Can 100% agree with it. Rusts type system is very unique and quite unusual especially when coming from C
Kacarott@aussie.zone · 6 pts · 165d
It's certainly different than C, but IMO Rust's type system is also a dramatic improvement.
cows_are_underrated@feddit.org · 3 pts · 165d
I am still learning Rust, so I can Not really say that much about it, but especially when considering things like Error handling it seems very good. No more returning invalid values. You just return a Result type and implement error handling based on that.
jimmy90@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 166d
Rust is the future. Notice how the C design committees are scrambling to replicate what rust does while C continues to lay eggs everywhere it goes
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone · 22 pts · 166d
title: “OMG! Something obliterates something else forever!
Looks inside: uncharismatic speaker is wishy washy about new development
aaaaaaaaargh@feddit.org · 13 pts · 166d
It's not that I don't like Rust, I just don't know what to do with it
Mubelotix@jlai.lu · 19 pts · 166d
Anything you used to make in C, C++, C# and Typescript
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 166d
Just wrap it in unsafe tags and you can accomplish the same things you can already do in any other language!
lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org · 3 pts · 166d
Excuse me but, can Rust even give me undecipherable Lore Ipsums of diagnostics at the same level that C++ can? If not, it's not even a competition.
Mubelotix@jlai.lu · 4 pts · 166d
This may be cheating but yes, sometimes there are cycles in type/generic definitions and the compiler loops their identifiers over and over, nesting them inside each other
lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org · 4 pts · 166d
You are almost inspiring me to go see this live.
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 166d
But be noted it's really not a drop-in replacement language for C-derived languages. It's more like OCaml with curly brackets.
Mubelotix@jlai.lu · 9 pts · 166d
Yes of course. But there is nothing you can't do. Only thing that may retain some of you is tooling that wasn't ported
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 166d
Feed it through a coffee grinder and mix it with similarly powdered aluminum.
Then set that on fire (bonus points for doing it on lake ice. That’s fun!)
Oh. Uh. Not that kind of rust?
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 166d
No, but yours has more real-world applications
ulterno@programming.dev · 6 pts · 166d
I am starting to learn Rust and the only reason I don't intend on using it for GUI stuff for the time being is because I just like QtWidgets a lot and GUI toolkits in Rust are a pretty new thing.
Apart from that, pretty much all logic can benefit from a language that forces people to be more explicit.
Although I won't consider it for larger projects until the borrow checker gets the overhaul it needs, because I'd rather not start hating another language.
Traister101@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 166d
What about the borrow checker needs an overhaul? Seems to do it's job quite well. If you want to remove it then you should use like C++ or Zig or something since the borrow checker is fairly fundemenal to the design of the language
ulterno@programming.dev · 2 pts · 166d
This is second hand info, but some people have had problems in bigger projects where the borrow checker ends up rejecting valid Rust code.
I think I have seen those comments right here in Lemmy.
marcos@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 166d
You use it to write programs.
savvywolf@pawb.social · 11 pts · 166d
Got curious and looked into it. All the architectures officially supported by Debian are also supported by Rustc.
I guess if you're a fan of GNU/Hurd it might cause issues?Shadow_Glider@piefed.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 166d
Nope, Hurd got Rust support years ago
savvywolf@pawb.social · 1 pts · 166d
Ah! Seems it does, but not at Tier 1 or 2. So I guess it could be buggy?