I don't know about the whole country, because there's a lot of low-density space where it's hard to justify this level of infrastructure cost.
But the Quebec City-Windsor corridorabsolutely needs high-speed rail because it includes roughly half of Canada's population. It's even conveniently arranged in a straight line! Driving in this region is hindered by tons of traffic, and flying has huge carbon costs. Rail should be the default way to get around in this region.
When rail was first built across Canada it was done when Canada had a population of ~4 million and preceded most of our development. That's what "nation building" infrastructure is about. Transportation infrastructure in particular has a huge role to play in developing that low density space.
People are fine running a road somewhere to spur growth but a rail line is a "waste of money". Cities used to build their subways out to undeveloped land because its way easier to do that before the land is developed and the subway line would give a reason to develop it.
"This $90-billion Liberal boondoggle doesn't make sense."
This isn't even a boondoggle yet. I mean, of course it's going to go way over budget and be late, and of course it will eventually be a boondoggle, but you can't slap that label on it until it is!
The joy of using the lowest bidder. Takes longer, costs more, lower quality. Procurement needs to change. Lowest bid always costs more cause they cut corners to be lowest, then the city/province/feds need to pony up more and more in sunk cost bs. Lowest bid and highest bid need to be tossed, requirements to stay on budget/time need to be implemented and used as a metric in future projects. This company always goes over time/budget? They get pushed down the list, only accepted for lower level projects until they prove themselves. Project comes in on time/budget? They get a leg up on next project as they are reliable. Why does every effort of the gov't to save money cost us more?
Meanwhile a $40B (min) pipeline that no private oil&gas company wants is a totally realistic and smart project to spend on. Keep talking PP, it's working!
Elites take planes, not trains you moron. If you think everyone who lives in a big city is an elite you probably need to get off the internet and spend time wirh real people
I live in Ontario and am sure as hell noe elite nor are my neighbours. We all support this as it will help us travel faster without driving. Alberta gas and oil can go get fucked.
So its a liberal "land grab" because some land may be used to build desperately needed infrastructure, something that happens all the time for roadway construction and expansion, yet hes silent on conservative premier Doug Fords Airport BS that somehow isn't a convervative land grab?
What I would like to see is include the ticket price, and then include how many years before the project is paid for. Obviously, also include the savings incurred by less maintenance on roads etc. because of the traffic moved to high speed rail.
We can do this for bridges, why not for high speed rail?
Don't get ahead of your self. This project will never pay for its self. If people used mass transit via would have alot more service. Porter airlines wouldn't be pushing for turbo jets to go further destinations. You got be realistic about these things.
This project is 1, a wicked subsidy that's gona create a healthy amount of jobs, good skilled jobs. I can expand on that further. 2 a way to put Canada 🇨🇦 on the map of not being bass akward USA light.
I think a couple of things can be true at the same time. Long term, high speed rail is a good thing. Also true is this project will definitely be vastly over budget. I would just like to see some concrete data to let us know the planners have actually looked at the factors.
Complaining about how extremely expensive trains are, no objections at all to spending ten times that much on fighter jets, battleships, and attack submarines.
I thought it was basic economics that increasing mobility increases production.
It's dumbass bullshit like this that proves that modern conservatives are not meant to be taken seriously. They are a party of billionaire donors that are only interested in taxing the ever loving fuck out of regular people to fund tax breaks for their blindingly rich donors.
Little Poil here, promise to give money to a project in Quebec City that was deemed useless by no less than tree independents studies. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t understand what could be useful
God if he ruins this I would be so upset. I don't even live in that area but I'm just happy to see an expansion of that sort of infrastructure in Canada
50 Comments
Archangel1313@lemmy.ca · 74 pts · 144d
Fuck this stupid fuck. We need high-speed rail across the entire country. It needs to start somewhere, and become the new normal.
randy@lemmy.ca · 17 pts · 144d
I don't know about the whole country, because there's a lot of low-density space where it's hard to justify this level of infrastructure cost.
But the Quebec City-Windsor corridor absolutely needs high-speed rail because it includes roughly half of Canada's population. It's even conveniently arranged in a straight line! Driving in this region is hindered by tons of traffic, and flying has huge carbon costs. Rail should be the default way to get around in this region.
grte@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 144d
When rail was first built across Canada it was done when Canada had a population of ~4 million and preceded most of our development. That's what "nation building" infrastructure is about. Transportation infrastructure in particular has a huge role to play in developing that low density space.
FireRetardant@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 143d
People are fine running a road somewhere to spur growth but a rail line is a "waste of money". Cities used to build their subways out to undeveloped land because its way easier to do that before the land is developed and the subway line would give a reason to develop it.
Sunshine@piefed.ca · 55 pts · 144d
Conservative leader demands taxpayer money be wasted during an oil crisis.
kat_angstrom@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 144d
This isn't even a boondoggle yet. I mean, of course it's going to go way over budget and be late, and of course it will eventually be a boondoggle, but you can't slap that label on it until it is!
CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca · -3 pts · 144d
Considering the Liberal track record, the final bill would be closer to $300billion.
lost_faith@lemmy.ca · 14 pts · 144d
The joy of using the lowest bidder. Takes longer, costs more, lower quality. Procurement needs to change. Lowest bid always costs more cause they cut corners to be lowest, then the city/province/feds need to pony up more and more in sunk cost bs. Lowest bid and highest bid need to be tossed, requirements to stay on budget/time need to be implemented and used as a metric in future projects. This company always goes over time/budget? They get pushed down the list, only accepted for lower level projects until they prove themselves. Project comes in on time/budget? They get a leg up on next project as they are reliable. Why does every effort of the gov't to save money cost us more?
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 144d
How far under budget is Metrolinx under Drug Ford?
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 31 pts · 144d
"doesn't make sense" Talk to us at $2L gas l'il PP.
Subsiding Alberta oil at $20B a year really makes no sense.
avidamoeba@lemmy.ca · 31 pts · 144d
Meanwhile a $40B (min) pipeline that no private oil&gas company wants is a totally realistic and smart project to spend on. Keep talking PP, it's working!
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 144d
Plus the $20-25B we dump into Alberta oil every single year.
betanumerus@lemmy.ca · 30 pts · 144d
As gas prices are at record levels, PP tries to keep you dependent on cars and gasoline.
EVERYTHING PP does is an attempt to make you buy oil & gas.
CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca · -12 pts · 143d
It's not going to help me whatsoever. It only helps the elites from Ontario and Quebec.
loonsun@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 143d
Elites take planes, not trains you moron. If you think everyone who lives in a big city is an elite you probably need to get off the internet and spend time wirh real people
BurgerBaron@piefed.social · 10 pts · 143d
Hello 1 week old account, your username is a little on the nose.
CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca · -3 pts · 142d
Nice! Thanks!
GrackleBirb@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 143d
I live in Ontario and am sure as hell noe elite nor are my neighbours. We all support this as it will help us travel faster without driving. Alberta gas and oil can go get fucked.
FireRetardant@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 144d
So its a liberal "land grab" because some land may be used to build desperately needed infrastructure, something that happens all the time for roadway construction and expansion, yet hes silent on conservative premier Doug Fords Airport BS that somehow isn't a convervative land grab?
grte@lemmy.ca · 20 pts · 144d
How fortunate for Carney to have this guy as an opponent.
ArmchairAce1944@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 143d
That is literally the only reason he won!
ArmchairAce1944@lemmy.ca · 19 pts · 144d
Eat shit, PP.
theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 17 pts · 144d
Poilievre isn't against money it just has to spent to benefit those already in power.
T00l_shed@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 144d
I reckon the high speed rail will benefit those in power, but it doesn't benefit him
Darkcoffee@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 144d
How does that waste of a human carcass manage to be on the wrong side of every single damn issue?
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 10 pts · 144d
Because Pierre represents hard working Americans.
Darkcoffee@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 144d
I should have said, on the wrong side of everything except the Canada/US border when he went on Joe Rogan
MushuChupacabra@piefed.world · 13 pts · 144d
PP says a lot of stupid things.
DriftingLynx@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 144d
It is kinda his thing.
CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 144d
What I would like to see is include the ticket price, and then include how many years before the project is paid for. Obviously, also include the savings incurred by less maintenance on roads etc. because of the traffic moved to high speed rail.
We can do this for bridges, why not for high speed rail?
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 142d
Because we periodically elect PCs, who will sell this off on 100 year leases.
kent_eh@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 143d
Not just less maintenance on roads and bridges, but also reduced need for building new and expanded roads and bridges.
Mpatch@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 143d
Don't get ahead of your self. This project will never pay for its self. If people used mass transit via would have alot more service. Porter airlines wouldn't be pushing for turbo jets to go further destinations. You got be realistic about these things.
This project is 1, a wicked subsidy that's gona create a healthy amount of jobs, good skilled jobs. I can expand on that further. 2 a way to put Canada 🇨🇦 on the map of not being bass akward USA light.
CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 142d
I think a couple of things can be true at the same time. Long term, high speed rail is a good thing. Also true is this project will definitely be vastly over budget. I would just like to see some concrete data to let us know the planners have actually looked at the factors.
normonator@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 144d
He should just shut up and fuck off somewhere. Nothing of value would be lost.
I don't live there but there's no way this is not needed.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 142d
normonator@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 142d
Not a single brain cell in that picture.
kbal@fedia.io · 11 pts · 144d
Complaining about how extremely expensive trains are, no objections at all to spending ten times that much on fighter jets, battleships, and attack submarines.
patatas@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 144d
cries in Canada Post
TemplaerDude@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 142d
I thought it was basic economics that increasing mobility increases production.
It's dumbass bullshit like this that proves that modern conservatives are not meant to be taken seriously. They are a party of billionaire donors that are only interested in taxing the ever loving fuck out of regular people to fund tax breaks for their blindingly rich donors.
TribblesBestFriend@startrek.website · 9 pts · 144d
Little Poil here, promise to give money to a project in Quebec City that was deemed useless by no less than tree independents studies. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t understand what could be useful
Mpatch@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 144d
Fuck you ill go fisty cuffies over this any day any minute any time. I want my high speed Choo Choo.
Reannlegge@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 144d
High speed choo choo is what I needed to see!
IndridCold@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 143d
High Speed. I Choo Choo Choose you!
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 143d
That's obvious. It could potentially help the plebes, and it's very far from Regina and Edmonton.
dipcart@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 142d
God if he ruins this I would be so upset. I don't even live in that area but I'm just happy to see an expansion of that sort of infrastructure in Canada
CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca · -7 pts · 143d
It's going to add $8,000 debt to every family in Canada.
loonsun@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 143d
Not how government spending works
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 142d
$90B is l'il PP's number, the actual estimate is $30B less.
This is how cons work, add a fake number to something they want to kill, then kill it.
The long gun registry was $2B/yr under Harper, yet no one could explain why. Quebec had their own registry after that and it cost $5M/yr.
Of course, the economic benefit to this corridor longer term will be a much bigger number.
CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca · -1 pts · 142d
Do you think we will ever be told what the economic benefit is predicted to be, and then the actual number?