Jokes aside, this is kinda the opposite of Descartes' point. He was doubting everything, and that included his own existence.
In fact, literally the only thing he could be sure of was that he was doubting, not that he was thinking, which is why it's so weird to me that everyone leaves off the first part of the idea, since it's arguably the most important part.
Dubito, ergo cogito. Cogito, ergo sum.
I doubt, therefore I think. I think, therefore I am.
I don’t understand. The opposite of saying “I exist” is “I don’t exist.” Doubting one’s existence, as in the first half of the first sentence, means asking “Do I really exist?” And he very quickly answers that by extrapolating that in order to ask that there must be some thinking thing to ask it, and that thinking thing is the self, therefore regardless of anything else, the self exists. What am I missing here?
You must not have been very good at geometry proofs in high school. Even though yes, both are true at the same time, one can't know that initially because one leads to the other. Descartes couldn't conclude that he was thinking until he had concluded that he was doubting.
How? It has always encouraged solipsism within me because being absolutely certain that I exist very quickly casts doubt upon the existence of anything else since I cannot be as certain of it.
Oh sure, the stuff he argued after doesn’t really hold up, but I’ve always had the sense that it would have been dangerous for him to suggest that God isn’t real at the time, and he maybe wouldn’t have made such arguments had he born in modern times.
18 Comments
sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz · 24 pts · 159d
Optional heel-turn arc:
hakase@lemmy.zip · 16 pts · 159d
Jokes aside, this is kinda the opposite of Descartes' point. He was doubting everything, and that included his own existence.
In fact, literally the only thing he could be sure of was that he was doubting, not that he was thinking, which is why it's so weird to me that everyone leaves off the first part of the idea, since it's arguably the most important part.
Dubito, ergo cogito. Cogito, ergo sum.
I doubt, therefore I think. I think, therefore I am.
renedescartes@literature.cafe · 14 pts · 159d
Doubt is the origin of wisdom.
defaultusername@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 159d
Woah, I had no idea you were on Lemmy/still alive.
renedescartes@literature.cafe · 5 pts · 158d
I still think, therefore I still am.
jaybone@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 159d
Existence. by Calvin Klein
jaycifer@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 159d
I don’t understand. The opposite of saying “I exist” is “I don’t exist.” Doubting one’s existence, as in the first half of the first sentence, means asking “Do I really exist?” And he very quickly answers that by extrapolating that in order to ask that there must be some thinking thing to ask it, and that thinking thing is the self, therefore regardless of anything else, the self exists. What am I missing here?
Quibblekrust@thelemmy.club · 1 pts · 158d
He literally said, "I doubt, therefore I think", and you say he was not thinking? I feel like maybe you're not thinking.
If you're sure of one thing and the conclusion of that surety is believing another thing then you are sure of both things.
hakase@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 158d
You must not have been very good at geometry proofs in high school. Even though yes, both are true at the same time, one can't know that initially because one leads to the other. Descartes couldn't conclude that he was thinking until he had concluded that he was doubting.
aeronmelon@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 159d
“We proclaim we exist!”
“And proclaiming is half the battle!”
stupidcasey@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 158d
I think they're 4:00 a.m.
electric_nan@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 158d
I think I think, therefore I think I am.
glitchdx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 159d
I think
You're already making some assumptions
The only thing we know for certain
Darksied Is.
davetortoise@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 158d
Not the same without the audio
lvxferre@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 159d
jaycifer@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 159d
How? It has always encouraged solipsism within me because being absolutely certain that I exist very quickly casts doubt upon the existence of anything else since I cannot be as certain of it.
lvxferre@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 159d
jaycifer@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 159d
Oh sure, the stuff he argued after doesn’t really hold up, but I’ve always had the sense that it would have been dangerous for him to suggest that God isn’t real at the time, and he maybe wouldn’t have made such arguments had he born in modern times.
Tonava@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 158d
lvxferre@mander.xyz · 2 pts · 158d
Mubelotix@jlai.lu · 1 pts · 159d
It's not. I will never be able to tell that you think. It might be just me thinking that you think, without you existing outside of my head
Sasquatch@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 158d
ahh, the LLM gambit