Missing the decades in which they tried persuading, debating, discussing and educating up to this tipping point, this final straw, all to no avail.
Are we supposed to just keep trying forever, pointlessly? Exhaustingly? Every day? For another 30 years?
At some point for our own mental wellbeing it's time to consider that some people will simply never change, are closed to any and all discussions, and it's best for ourselves to stop trying over and over, and focus on our own mental health instead.
I was idealistic once, and would have said there's never a time to stop trying to fix other people, to help them see a different viewpoint, or mortality, etc, but some people just can't be fixed. All you're really doing by continuing to try is breaking yourself in the process. Be kind to yourself <3
I'm always gonna try to persuade others to be kinder and more responsible, but I don't bother with people who A: have chosen to ignore future arguments, B: hurt those who try to persuade them. I'll keep talking to any absolute shithead who actively listens and doesn't attack Me.
Falseness can be determined in an antirealist ontology in two ways: hypocrisy, and ethical consequences. For example, if someone claims a belief in science, but thinks climate change is a hoax, that's hypocrisy. We can point out that science says climate change is happening. And if someone claims to value kindness, but misgenders trans people, we can point at the dysphoria caused by the actions.
Now, these two tactics won't work on people who don't mind being hypocrites and don't care about ethics. Namely, fascists. We deal with fascists using violence. This includes "soft" violence like denying them freedoms, and hard violence like physically or emotionally harming them. If everyone agrees not to be friends with nazis, then nazis are gonna be lonely and maybe they'll stop being nazis in order to gain friends again. If that doesn't work, we can throw soy milkshakes at them. If that doesn't work, we can put them in a room where they can't hurt anyone and make them see a therapist. And if that doesn't work, we can shoot them with a tank.
If someone has the entirely self-consistent ideological view that putting Jewish people in gas chambers is an axiomatic good, then I am willing to commit acts of violence within the bounds of the Geneva conventions to enforce My subjective belief that putting Jewish people in gas chambers is bad. That action doesn't require realism, it just requires that I be strongly committed to subjective principles.
not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll though.
i often see people blocking others (me for example) just because they aren't comfortable with having a debate with someone with completely opposite views.
in that case blocking isn't "not feeding the troll" but more "staying safe in your bubble".
the fact that OP is (apparently) a cringelord doesn't make that particular point wrong.
You say that as if Trump isnt worse, who invaded iraq again? If youre not killing the president f the USA personally right now you cant say shit about anything.
I have to travel to the other side of the globe to kill the president, who the fuck have money and time for that?
And what does that have anything to do with my point? And when did Trump invade iraq? It's iran. Both are fucking worst, but tankie support putin, not trump, so again, it has nothing to do with my point.
don't you think this is an ironic comic to post for an account whose main contributions to this community are comics in the format of "turns to guy I don't like: you are fucking stupid"
This assumes good intent no? Usually the issues I'm not willing to debate or discuss with some dick head is because they're, in fact not trying to debate with good intent.
Ah, you're right. Instead, I should waste away my precious little free time in pointless online """"debates"""" with people who may or may not be AI propaganda chatbots.
I think if Reddit/Lemmy users want to do anything more than preaching to the choir during their time online and build actual bridges, they need to go on Facebook. Because there's no way Facebook boomers are coming over here.
To be honest with ya. I thought about this and after dealing with some nasty dipshit on IRC after I blocked them with my client due to their politics.
I am going to say. That I'm glad I didn't have to listen to them threaten me and my friends afterwards or throw a hissy fit over me saying some pretty hard line things.
Like I will not give these people air to even breathe. I don't want to interact with rightoid politics because these people are way too far gone that nothing I can say or anyone else is going to do anything to change their shitty opinions.
The time for civil debate is over when these people start acting like children or make up stuff like Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Communities of any kind in my opinion have every right to defend themselves alongside individuals against shitty people.
Everything is better disconnected online. There no convincing people online. Only in person, where people are more moderate, and more likely to express more moderate views or not fall/goad into petty debate.
I think an important facet here is the fact that I don't just disengage with people because I'm afraid of debating them or whatever. Most people's opinions are locked the fuck in and there's nothing you can say that will ever change what they think.
63 Comments
obinice@lemmy.world · 78 pts · 103d
Missing the decades in which they tried persuading, debating, discussing and educating up to this tipping point, this final straw, all to no avail.
Are we supposed to just keep trying forever, pointlessly? Exhaustingly? Every day? For another 30 years?
At some point for our own mental wellbeing it's time to consider that some people will simply never change, are closed to any and all discussions, and it's best for ourselves to stop trying over and over, and focus on our own mental health instead.
I was idealistic once, and would have said there's never a time to stop trying to fix other people, to help them see a different viewpoint, or mortality, etc, but some people just can't be fixed. All you're really doing by continuing to try is breaking yourself in the process. Be kind to yourself <3
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net · 28 pts · 103d
I'm always gonna try to persuade others to be kinder and more responsible, but I don't bother with people who A: have chosen to ignore future arguments, B: hurt those who try to persuade them. I'll keep talking to any absolute shithead who actively listens and doesn't attack Me.
U7826391786239@piefed.zip · 15 pts · 103d
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net · -2 pts · 103d
What about people who have chosen to discard reality in favour of nice things like fairness, justice, and the power to improve the world?
U7826391786239@piefed.zip · 5 pts · 103d
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net · 2 pts · 103d
Me, I chose to discard reality in favour of nice things. I wrote a manifesto about it: https://soulism.net/
U7826391786239@piefed.zip · 3 pts · 103d
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net · 3 pts · 103d
Falseness can be determined in an antirealist ontology in two ways: hypocrisy, and ethical consequences. For example, if someone claims a belief in science, but thinks climate change is a hoax, that's hypocrisy. We can point out that science says climate change is happening. And if someone claims to value kindness, but misgenders trans people, we can point at the dysphoria caused by the actions.
Now, these two tactics won't work on people who don't mind being hypocrites and don't care about ethics. Namely, fascists. We deal with fascists using violence. This includes "soft" violence like denying them freedoms, and hard violence like physically or emotionally harming them. If everyone agrees not to be friends with nazis, then nazis are gonna be lonely and maybe they'll stop being nazis in order to gain friends again. If that doesn't work, we can throw soy milkshakes at them. If that doesn't work, we can put them in a room where they can't hurt anyone and make them see a therapist. And if that doesn't work, we can shoot them with a tank.
If someone has the entirely self-consistent ideological view that putting Jewish people in gas chambers is an axiomatic good, then I am willing to commit acts of violence within the bounds of the Geneva conventions to enforce My subjective belief that putting Jewish people in gas chambers is bad. That action doesn't require realism, it just requires that I be strongly committed to subjective principles.
zeezee@slrpnk.net · 63 pts · 103d
dont feed the troll - felix will say the most misogynistic shit imaginable and then hide behind the smarmiest "its just jokes y u so mad bro??"
only reason ive not blocked felix is so i can bring this shit up when they post obvious ragebait
IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtf · 7 pts · 102d
Felix is definitely a Russian grandpa
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 103d
This is a type of pettiness I can get behind!
acido@feddit.it · -5 pts · 103d
not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll though.
i often see people blocking others (me for example) just because they aren't comfortable with having a debate with someone with completely opposite views.
in that case blocking isn't "not feeding the troll" but more "staying safe in your bubble".
the fact that OP is (apparently) a cringelord doesn't make that particular point wrong.
dohpaz42@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 103d
A few key points to live by:
acido@feddit.it · -9 pts · 103d
Wakmrow@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 102d
I see why people often block you lol
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 102d
👨🍳🤌🫴
PhoenixDog@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 102d
People leave the room when they walk in.
acido@feddit.it · 1 pts · 102d
I know right? you just point someone wrong and they get upset... smh
psx_crab@lemmy.zip · 58 pts · 103d
Debate? Have you tried persuade tankie that Putin's action on Ukraine is bad?
yermaw@sh.itjust.works · -24 pts · 103d
You say that as if Trump isnt worse, who invaded iraq again? If youre not killing the president f the USA personally right now you cant say shit about anything.
psx_crab@lemmy.zip · 22 pts · 103d
I have to travel to the other side of the globe to kill the president, who the fuck have money and time for that?
And what does that have anything to do with my point? And when did Trump invade iraq? It's iran. Both are fucking worst, but tankie support putin, not trump, so again, it has nothing to do with my point.
yermaw@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 103d
Yeah i was hoping the /s wasnt necessary.
psx_crab@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 103d
My bad, it really looks like an actual opinion
acido@feddit.it · 4 pts · 103d
same here to be honest.
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 103d
The ending bit is hard to read with sarcasm when I've seen the exact same sentiment from the 3 big tankstances.
Harvey656@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 102d
The /s was absolutely necessary. I thought you were stating an opinion.
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net · 6 pts · 103d
I think all authoritarians are bad
Solumbran@lemmy.world · 38 pts · 103d
Ah yes, when far right extremists complain about people not wanting to listen to them.
Fitting OP's account as usual.
Retail4068@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 103d
Amazing. With no awareness.
This isn't a 'far right' problem.
FelixCress@lemmy.world · -35 pts · 103d
Don't bother, this user brands "far right" anybody who they disagree with.
Solumbran@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 103d
No, just misogynistic craps :)
iusearchbtw@feddit.uk · 34 pts · 103d
don't you think this is an ironic comic to post for an account whose main contributions to this community are comics in the format of "turns to guy I don't like: you are fucking stupid"
heavy@sh.itjust.works · 30 pts · 103d
This assumes good intent no? Usually the issues I'm not willing to debate or discuss with some dick head is because they're, in fact not trying to debate with good intent.
Avicenna@programming.dev · 4 pts · 102d
yeah feels like %90 online discussions now a days are in bad faith
Ajen@sh.itjust.works · -2 pts · 102d
Great, sounds like the comic isn't about you, then.
heavy@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 102d
What? I can't post a comment, boss?
Ajen@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 102d
Where did you get that from?
Ibuthyr@lemmy.wtf · 2 pts · 102d
I think it's a joke, closely related to the comic.
GeneralEmergency@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 103d
The irony of posting this to Lemmy
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 23 pts · 103d
Ah, you're right. Instead, I should waste away my precious little free time in pointless online """"debates"""" with people who may or may not be AI propaganda chatbots.
acido@feddit.it · 1 pts · 103d
easy counterargument would be: even your own bubble could be full of chatbots you agree with.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 3 pts · 103d
But at least I won't waste all day arguing with them.
tanisnikana@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 102d
I’m not debating my right to literally exist with anyone. Fuck right off.
PhoenixDog@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 102d
Right? This isn't about pineapple on pizza. It's jot even how taxes should be spent, or the economy on general.
If you're against my right as a human being to exist, there's nothing to pursuade or debate. Just fuck off out of my life.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 103d
The poster of this fascist boomer shit is exactly who I expected.
PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de · 9 pts · 103d
"Unfriend" ? What year is it
SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 103d
I think if Reddit/Lemmy users want to do anything more than preaching to the choir during their time online and build actual bridges, they need to go on Facebook. Because there's no way Facebook boomers are coming over here.
Prunebutt@slrpnk.net · 9 pts · 103d
Or you could, you know: go outside and talk to people IRL? (touching grass, as it were)
DaMummy@hilariouschaos.com · 3 pts · 103d
In the outernet?
SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 103d
Yes, that is the best solution of all
regedit@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 103d
But...then I have to talk to someone...
CultLeader4Hire@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 103d
Who is that 3rd person?
ripcord@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 103d
Stefan, who was sleeping with both of them until last week.
FelixCress@lemmy.world · -16 pts · 103d
The 4th pic shows a number of people in their little bubbles.
CultLeader4Hire@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 103d
Are you a bot?
mlc894@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 102d
Didn’t you just post something with the opposite message, not even a month ago?
https://lemmy.world/post/45811390
lovely_reader@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 102d
I can't tell if these are meant as messages or just observations
Edit: I had not considered the third possibility: shitposts
HrabiaVulpes@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 103d
If I wasn't against it, social media would not show me this.
dorumon@lemmy.cafe · 3 pts · 101d
To be honest with ya. I thought about this and after dealing with some nasty dipshit on IRC after I blocked them with my client due to their politics.
I am going to say. That I'm glad I didn't have to listen to them threaten me and my friends afterwards or throw a hissy fit over me saying some pretty hard line things.
Like I will not give these people air to even breathe. I don't want to interact with rightoid politics because these people are way too far gone that nothing I can say or anyone else is going to do anything to change their shitty opinions.
The time for civil debate is over when these people start acting like children or make up stuff like Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Communities of any kind in my opinion have every right to defend themselves alongside individuals against shitty people.
lime@feddit.nu · 3 pts · 103d
and yet
DarkCloud@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 103d
Everything is better disconnected online. There no convincing people online. Only in person, where people are more moderate, and more likely to express more moderate views or not fall/goad into petty debate.
... except for Felix.
Aeri@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 100d
I think an important facet here is the fact that I don't just disengage with people because I'm afraid of debating them or whatever. Most people's opinions are locked the fuck in and there's nothing you can say that will ever change what they think.
Sabata11792@ani.social · 2 pts · 103d
I'm a few billion dollars short on my propaganda empire to convince people.
33550336@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 103d
Dialectic is the right answer