It's so hard for me to read anything by Cory Doctorow or Ed Zitron these days because there's always this giant, gaping void where class analysis should be. Is this the time they finally connect the dots, I ask myself? No! It's never the time. It's always enshittification this and business idiots that and never, ever a single whisper about capital. Brian Merchant and Ed Ongweso Jr. are much better in this regard - if you haven't read anything by them I recommend you start.
As to the actual content here, this is precisely what the internet was always created to be. Do you think the DoD sorry, DoW created this as a happy accident? Just to help people? It's always been intended as an anti-informational weapon and a surveillance network in-one. And all the attempts by vassal states to wriggle out of the trap will prove futile. China is the only country handling it the right way, and no capitalist nation will ever have the motivation to follow their example. There's too much money to be made in making their own little tech fiefdoms.
I agree, without applying a materialist lens, you just end up discussing symptoms endlessly and ignoring the actual mechanics of the system responsible for producing these outcomes. This is another example I just ran across today where the author is discovering the contradictions of capitalism from first principles. https://www.owenmcgrann.com/p/the-dead-economy-theory
That doesn't surprise me. I think he's probably a socdem at best these days, specifically the kind of lib that thinks that we are in Bad Capitalism and if we just trust bust enough, we can go back to Good Capitalism, and all the smaller companies definitely won't just devour each other and repeal regulations, putting us in this exact position or worse in another 20-30 years.
I've found this also. He's a liberal with zero class analysis or materialist literacy. If you've ever read his books, like his main one, enshittification, it reads like a middle-school age baby leftist wrote it.
It's a testament to the sad state of US and canadian education that he's considered a pioneer in any field.
There's going to be a great need to properly educate the working class in the west before there's much hope of socialism gaining any traction. They keep people just educated enough to innoculate them against critical thinking. I forget the exact statistics, but a depressing number of people have not read a single book in their entire adult lives.
The National Security Hawks in the US are in on the surveillance, feeding the data to AI, and churning out lists of targets to eventually drone strike - domestically and abroad.
Can someone connect me with these National Security Hawks that are for actual privacy and autonomy, instead of their own stupid surveillance states? Because I'm convinced Doctorow is making them up in hopes of inciting their existence.
His pitch of "stealing American Trillions to keep Billions" is enticing and elegant, but flies in the face of All of the political Momentum. I wish to flee to his first country to destroy American Copyright in favor of their own national sovereignty! But not even France is taking this step in declaring "independence" from American Tech.
He's Canadian, so he seems to be under the impression that the Canadian equivalents aren't working with the CIA (though they absolutely are). No vassal state is going to make such a move when they all know what happens to those that step out of line; the empire will have to be way more collapsed before the EU and Canada start testing their leashes.
American tech companies. American national security organs cannot touch them, cannot put the hurt on them. They are independent and there is nothing Meta, Google, Oracle, etc can do to them. Look at Europe, look at the rest of the world on Facebook and Oracle products with a big gun right at their temple held in the CIA's hand if they do something the US doesn't like. China doesn't have that gun at its head and because of that China can be truly sovereign from the US.
That's a single positive. Not "doing it right".
What china has isn't even internet. Its intranet with some exceptions. Not to mention what the USA has also isn't truly internet but it's somewhat closer.
As someone who has lived in China for many years, including now, I have to say it's really not great for accessing the World Wide Web. Within China, the accessible internet is basically a Chinese national intranet. Which is not terrible if you are a native Chinese speaker, I guess. They censor because the US sending out massive propaganda. But China's government is producing a lot of domestic propaganda, too. Different goals - the US to destabilize and take over, China to stabilize and maintain support for the system.
As I have lived here many years, I've put in a great deal of effort to learn the language. Unfortunately, with limited results. Learning to read and write in Chinese requires a structured learning environment and about 10 years of focus for most people. Due to illiteracy in Chinese I can't just switch to using the Chinese intranet. And the government keeps cracking down on VPNs. It can be very frustrating accessing the internet outside the GFW. And frankly there is a lot of useful and interesting content that exists outside the GFW.
There's a tendency for "soft-leftists" to co-opt already existing terms in the Marxist canon, de-fang them of any revolutionary rhetoric, repackage them, and market it to the masses. Mark Fisher, Zizek, Naomi Klein, are the major culprits.
The National Security Hawks in the US are in on the surveillance, feeding the data to AI, and churning out lists of targets to eventually drone strike - domestically and abroad.
Can someone connect me with these National Security Hawks that are for actual privacy and autonomy, instead of their own stupid surveillance states? Because I'm convinced Doctorow is making them up in hopes of inciting their existence.
His pitch of "stealing American Trillions to keep Billions" is enticing and elegant, but flies in the face of All of the political Momentum. I wish to flee to his first country to destroy American Copyright in favor of their own national sovereignty! But not even France is taking this step.
Yes, the best book on this is Yasha Levine - Surveillance Valley . You can find the audiobook on torrents.
The purpose the the very first DoD networks, was as an anti-communist counter-insurgency tool, mainly to aid in the collection of data and the fight against communists in SE asia, particularly Vietnam.
No, because it is not true. The Internet started as an idea for decentralized communications that the military could use in case of nuclear war. Then DARPA got the universities involved and it became a way to connect all the uni networks, which the unis used to share research when we were not being nuked.
Edit: When the internet first started to appear, there just wasn't enough bandwidth to engage in surveillance, even after the uni's got involved. No one anticipated it exploding into everyone's household. Surveillance got tacked on later.
There was an old episode of TrueAnon about the links between Epstein (and the CIA) to MIT that went over some of this stuff. I'm sure there's probably a book or article about it somewhere, but I don't have any better citation at the moment.
the problem is, before all the politicians were on the same level. hell france and the uk just passed meta's age bill with ease. but now as trump is destroying everything, i as an american dont trust the system at all. before it was "the government doesnt care about you" now its "the government is out to destroy"
But we shouldn't be relying on some bullshit InterNIC crap either. DNS should be federated. Each country gets their cctld to manage and 'international law' 'forces' the varios nic orgs to cooperate. extra tlds are federated on a choice basis.
Like, to find the canonical DNS name of one of my home lab IPs, 209.180.104.202, you search for a PTR record for 202.104.180.209.in-addr.arpa. (You get git.mspencer.net. Note my username here.) The first A in ARPA stands for something. (That’s how you know I’m not a bot - bots don’t have 25-year-old domain names. . . . I didn’t say I was interesting, I just said I’m not a bot. :-) )
We don’t own it though. We never should - too much concentrated wealth and corruption. Like many technology stories, big wealth (whether Cold War military spending or giant corporations using money to squeeze out more money) creates something for one purpose, but people adapt and convert it for a better purpose. Business computing tech becomes home computing or gaming tech. Military redundant communications research becomes public redundant communication infrastructure.
DNS is such a terrible thing, because, despite being amazing at what it does, and beautifully complex at times, it's still a massively centralized system that basically controls the internet. Of course it's based in the US.
It's also the reason why domain names cost significant money, and they even sell TLDs for insane prices that only megacorporations can afford. They can decide what TLDs get to exist, and ultimately, they have the power to ban domains, whole zones, or even TLDs. They essentially have the power to dismantle the internet as most people know it.
There are some alternative projects that aim to replace ICANN's root servers, but almost nobody has them set up (and the alternative root servers aren't even considered "legal" or part of the DNS system by any provider). Which leads to the alternative TLDs being almost useless. It's still a fun thing to set up, though.
Hey, you haven't seen runet yet. The most ham-fisted, suppressive idiot policies ever. It is as if they deliberately trying to draw out the torches and pitchforks.
37 Comments
TiredTiger@lemmy.ml · 44 pts · 109d
It's so hard for me to read anything by Cory Doctorow or Ed Zitron these days because there's always this giant, gaping void where class analysis should be. Is this the time they finally connect the dots, I ask myself? No! It's never the time. It's always enshittification this and business idiots that and never, ever a single whisper about capital. Brian Merchant and Ed Ongweso Jr. are much better in this regard - if you haven't read anything by them I recommend you start.
As to the actual content here, this is precisely what the internet was always created to be. Do you think the
DoDsorry, DoW created this as a happy accident? Just to help people? It's always been intended as an anti-informational weapon and a surveillance network in-one. And all the attempts by vassal states to wriggle out of the trap will prove futile. China is the only country handling it the right way, and no capitalist nation will ever have the motivation to follow their example. There's too much money to be made in making their own little tech fiefdoms.yogthos@lemmy.ml · 24 pts · 109d
I agree, without applying a materialist lens, you just end up discussing symptoms endlessly and ignoring the actual mechanics of the system responsible for producing these outcomes. This is another example I just ran across today where the author is discovering the contradictions of capitalism from first principles. https://www.owenmcgrann.com/p/the-dead-economy-theory
nocteb@feddit.org · 5 pts · 109d
Thanks for the link. I found it very interesting.
davel@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 109d
I don’t know what Doctorow’s politics are now, but I know he was deep in the dot-com libertarian milieu 30 years ago.
TiredTiger@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 109d
That doesn't surprise me. I think he's probably a socdem at best these days, specifically the kind of lib that thinks that we are in Bad Capitalism and if we just trust bust enough, we can go back to Good Capitalism, and all the smaller companies definitely won't just devour each other and repeal regulations, putting us in this exact position or worse in another 20-30 years.
dessalines@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 108d
I've found this also. He's a liberal with zero class analysis or materialist literacy. If you've ever read his books, like his main one, enshittification, it reads like a middle-school age baby leftist wrote it.
It's a testament to the sad state of US and canadian education that he's considered a pioneer in any field.
TiredTiger@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 108d
I've read his newsletter and that was enough.
There's going to be a great need to properly educate the working class in the west before there's much hope of socialism gaining any traction. They keep people just educated enough to innoculate them against critical thinking. I forget the exact statistics, but a depressing number of people have not read a single book in their entire adult lives.
ATS1312@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 109d
What no class analysis does to a MFer.
The National Security Hawks in the US are in on the surveillance, feeding the data to AI, and churning out lists of targets to eventually drone strike - domestically and abroad.
Can someone connect me with these National Security Hawks that are for actual privacy and autonomy, instead of their own stupid surveillance states? Because I'm convinced Doctorow is making them up in hopes of inciting their existence.
His pitch of "stealing American Trillions to keep Billions" is enticing and elegant, but flies in the face of All of the political Momentum. I wish to flee to his first country to destroy American Copyright in favor of their own national sovereignty! But not even France is taking this step in declaring "independence" from American Tech.
TiredTiger@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 109d
He's Canadian, so he seems to be under the impression that the Canadian equivalents aren't working with the CIA (though they absolutely are). No vassal state is going to make such a move when they all know what happens to those that step out of line; the empire will have to be way more collapsed before the EU and Canada start testing their leashes.
somegeek@programming.dev · 4 pts · 109d
China is doing internet right?
Majestic@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 109d
They're sovereign.
American tech companies. American national security organs cannot touch them, cannot put the hurt on them. They are independent and there is nothing Meta, Google, Oracle, etc can do to them. Look at Europe, look at the rest of the world on Facebook and Oracle products with a big gun right at their temple held in the CIA's hand if they do something the US doesn't like. China doesn't have that gun at its head and because of that China can be truly sovereign from the US.
somegeek@programming.dev · -4 pts · 108d
That's a single positive. Not "doing it right". What china has isn't even internet. Its intranet with some exceptions. Not to mention what the USA has also isn't truly internet but it's somewhat closer.
considine@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 109d
As someone who has lived in China for many years, including now, I have to say it's really not great for accessing the World Wide Web. Within China, the accessible internet is basically a Chinese national intranet. Which is not terrible if you are a native Chinese speaker, I guess. They censor because the US sending out massive propaganda. But China's government is producing a lot of domestic propaganda, too. Different goals - the US to destabilize and take over, China to stabilize and maintain support for the system.
As I have lived here many years, I've put in a great deal of effort to learn the language. Unfortunately, with limited results. Learning to read and write in Chinese requires a structured learning environment and about 10 years of focus for most people. Due to illiteracy in Chinese I can't just switch to using the Chinese intranet. And the government keeps cracking down on VPNs. It can be very frustrating accessing the internet outside the GFW. And frankly there is a lot of useful and interesting content that exists outside the GFW.
somegeek@programming.dev · 2 pts · 109d
Totally understand your point. Iran has also imported the intranet bullshit from china.
terabyterex@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 109d
yogthos@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 109d
cry ab it
Pissed@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 109d
dessalines@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 107d
There's a tendency for "soft-leftists" to co-opt already existing terms in the Marxist canon, de-fang them of any revolutionary rhetoric, repackage them, and market it to the masses. Mark Fisher, Zizek, Naomi Klein, are the major culprits.
Pissed@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 107d
ATS1312@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 109d
What no class analysis does to a MFer.
The National Security Hawks in the US are in on the surveillance, feeding the data to AI, and churning out lists of targets to eventually drone strike - domestically and abroad.
Can someone connect me with these National Security Hawks that are for actual privacy and autonomy, instead of their own stupid surveillance states? Because I'm convinced Doctorow is making them up in hopes of inciting their existence.
His pitch of "stealing American Trillions to keep Billions" is enticing and elegant, but flies in the face of All of the political Momentum. I wish to flee to his first country to destroy American Copyright in favor of their own national sovereignty! But not even France is taking this step.
AlHouthi4President@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 108d
dessalines@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 108d
Yes, the best book on this is Yasha Levine - Surveillance Valley . You can find the audiobook on torrents.
The purpose the the very first DoD networks, was as an anti-communist counter-insurgency tool, mainly to aid in the collection of data and the fight against communists in SE asia, particularly Vietnam.
AlHouthi4President@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 107d
dessalines@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 107d
o7
TiredTiger@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 107d
Much obliged - I'll be adding this to my reading list so I don't get caught without citations again.
dessalines@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 107d
Thx. I'll also check out the two writers you mentioned.
Banzai51@midwest.social · 1 pts · 108d
No, because it is not true. The Internet started as an idea for decentralized communications that the military could use in case of nuclear war. Then DARPA got the universities involved and it became a way to connect all the uni networks, which the unis used to share research when we were not being nuked.
Edit: When the internet first started to appear, there just wasn't enough bandwidth to engage in surveillance, even after the uni's got involved. No one anticipated it exploding into everyone's household. Surveillance got tacked on later.
TiredTiger@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 108d
There was an old episode of TrueAnon about the links between Epstein (and the CIA) to MIT that went over some of this stuff. I'm sure there's probably a book or article about it somewhere, but I don't have any better citation at the moment.
AlHouthi4President@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 108d
queermunist@lemmy.ml · 21 pts · 110d
"Become"
yogthos@lemmy.ml · 19 pts · 109d
Yeah more like people are starting to realize the internet is too American.
terabyterex@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 109d
the problem is, before all the politicians were on the same level. hell france and the uk just passed meta's age bill with ease. but now as trump is destroying everything, i as an american dont trust the system at all. before it was "the government doesnt care about you" now its "the government is out to destroy"
yogthos@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 109d
people waking up to how a capitalist government actually functions and whose interest it serves is the one silver lining here
terabyterex@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 109d
i am not sure you know what the word capitalist means. hint for you, it has nothing to do with profit.
yogthos@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 109d
when you definitely read and understood the comment you're replying to
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 108d
It's the mix of supreme ignorance and maximum smugness that makes people like you so loathsome.
Fancy_Gecko@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 109d
its always been
ms_lane@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 109d
To be fair, it wouldn't exist without DARPA.
But we shouldn't be relying on some bullshit InterNIC crap either. DNS should be federated. Each country gets their cctld to manage and 'international law' 'forces' the varios nic orgs to cooperate. extra tlds are federated on a choice basis.
Zerush@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 108d
A lot of things have gone wrong since than
rosedin@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 109d
Become? It's always been...
mspencer712@programming.dev · 5 pts · 109d
Like, to find the canonical DNS name of one of my home lab IPs, 209.180.104.202, you search for a PTR record for 202.104.180.209.in-addr.arpa. (You get git.mspencer.net. Note my username here.) The first A in ARPA stands for something. (That’s how you know I’m not a bot - bots don’t have 25-year-old domain names. . . . I didn’t say I was interesting, I just said I’m not a bot. :-) )
We don’t own it though. We never should - too much concentrated wealth and corruption. Like many technology stories, big wealth (whether Cold War military spending or giant corporations using money to squeeze out more money) creates something for one purpose, but people adapt and convert it for a better purpose. Business computing tech becomes home computing or gaming tech. Military redundant communications research becomes public redundant communication infrastructure.
black0ut@pawb.social · 2 pts · 108d
DNS is such a terrible thing, because, despite being amazing at what it does, and beautifully complex at times, it's still a massively centralized system that basically controls the internet. Of course it's based in the US.
It's also the reason why domain names cost significant money, and they even sell TLDs for insane prices that only megacorporations can afford. They can decide what TLDs get to exist, and ultimately, they have the power to ban domains, whole zones, or even TLDs. They essentially have the power to dismantle the internet as most people know it.
There are some alternative projects that aim to replace ICANN's root servers, but almost nobody has them set up (and the alternative root servers aren't even considered "legal" or part of the DNS system by any provider). Which leads to the alternative TLDs being almost useless. It's still a fun thing to set up, though.
eleitl@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 109d
Hey, you haven't seen runet yet. The most ham-fisted, suppressive idiot policies ever. It is as if they deliberately trying to draw out the torches and pitchforks.