Brilliant! Knowing that Hannibal had a pre-set kill limit, the Romans sent wave after wave of their own soldiers against Hannibal until he returned to Carthage!
Explanation: In the Second Punic War, the brilliant Carthaginian ("Punic") general Hannibal Barca repeatedly lured massive Roman armies into traps, and utterly destroyed them, one after another.
... it took a concerningly long time for the Romans to stumble across the strategy of "Stop feeding Roman soldiers to Hannibal's forces".
Well worth a watch. Romans were so stupid for so long cause they were so cocky from the first war hehe.
They did eventually learn to play it tactfully though ( attack and run when hanabal came to protect the town )
The Roman ability to motivate their citizens to keep turning up for these wars is the real hero, and it's not like they just used blunt force to press people into service. They offered substantial incentives, both positive (IIRC up to offering full citizenship to slaves) and negative (punishing citizens, including aristocrats, who tried to dodge the draft).
Slaves deemed healthy and fit were asked if they were willing to serve in the Legions in exchange for freedom and citizenship after a time of service (one presumes very few said "No, I rather like being a slave" lmao), and then purchased for service in two legions of freed slaves (volones - 'volunteers'). They performed well and were subsequently granted their freedom and citizenship en masse by Consul Gracchus (an ancestor of the more famous reformers of the Brothers Gracchi) after a victory against Carthaginian forces.
Numerous equites (the wealthy class of Roman citizens) and Senators' sons were stripped of their citizenship and property, and some were even enslaved in addition, depending on the severity of their draft-dodging.
If worthy men can rise high in the world, it must also be that unworthy men be allowed to fall...
one presumes very few said “No, I rather like being a slave” lmao
Considering that Roman slaves actually did have some rights, I think many slaves with more reasonable masters would probably have preferred living as slaves over dieing as soldiers ... then again, if the Carthaginians had won, life might have taken a turn for the worse even for the slaves.
iirc dan carlin suggested something along the lines: what made rome a superpower was their ability to take a punch, and then get up again to win the fight.
(so basically what you said, but with boxing-framing instead of futuarama-framing)
funnily enough, if i understand this correctly, giving the army more soldiers and attacking hannibal directly turned out to actually not work at all, as they were utterly annihilated. instead, the more cautious and clever scipio turned the war around by using actual tactics instead of just bluntly attacking up front.
source: watched the 2 oversimplified videos about it last night.
Scipio did land some of the most devastating blows, but there was almost a decade of work in-between by Fabius and Marcellus, wherein they engaged in the radical technique of [checks notes] only offering to battle on their own terms, and not Hannibal's time and field of choice.
22 Comments
PugJesus@piefed.social · 25 pts · 88d
Explanation: In the Second Punic War, the brilliant Carthaginian ("Punic") general Hannibal Barca repeatedly lured massive Roman armies into traps, and utterly destroyed them, one after another.
... it took a concerningly long time for the Romans to stumble across the strategy of "Stop feeding Roman soldiers to Hannibal's forces".
DacoTaco@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 88d
Obligatory oversimplified video explaining it all : https://youtu.be/Q-nWA0WeF98
Well worth a watch. Romans were so stupid for so long cause they were so cocky from the first war hehe.
They did eventually learn to play it tactfully though ( attack and run when hanabal came to protect the town )
Mr_Fish@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 88d
Then they used the genius strategy of "get the fuck out of there"
Sergio@piefed.social · 5 pts · 88d
If you need a good insult, just drop "cunctator" in there with the rest.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 87d
Modern day Tunisia
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 15 pts · 87d
The Roman ability to motivate their citizens to keep turning up for these wars is the real hero, and it's not like they just used blunt force to press people into service. They offered substantial incentives, both positive (IIRC up to offering full citizenship to slaves) and negative (punishing citizens, including aristocrats, who tried to dodge the draft).
PugJesus@piefed.social · 19 pts · 87d
Correct on both accounts!
Slaves deemed healthy and fit were asked if they were willing to serve in the Legions in exchange for freedom and citizenship after a time of service (one presumes very few said "No, I rather like being a slave" lmao), and then purchased for service in two legions of freed slaves (volones - 'volunteers'). They performed well and were subsequently granted their freedom and citizenship en masse by Consul Gracchus (an ancestor of the more famous reformers of the Brothers Gracchi) after a victory against Carthaginian forces.
Numerous equites (the wealthy class of Roman citizens) and Senators' sons were stripped of their citizenship and property, and some were even enslaved in addition, depending on the severity of their draft-dodging.
If worthy men can rise high in the world, it must also be that unworthy men be allowed to fall...
rumschlumpel@feddit.org · 7 pts · 87d
Considering that Roman slaves actually did have some rights, I think many slaves with more reasonable masters would probably have preferred living as slaves over dieing as soldiers ... then again, if the Carthaginians had won, life might have taken a turn for the worse even for the slaves.
teft@piefed.social · 7 pts · 87d
Personally i’d want the favor of Neptune and Mars if i were fighting a naval battle.
PugJesus@piefed.social · 12 pts · 87d
Funny enough, the First Punic War was mostly naval, and was won by Rome, despite not having a navy at the start of the war...
... but the Second Punic War was almost entirely on land, as the Romans dominated the seas by then.
deathmetal27@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 87d
The divine chicken ate from my hand today, our victory is absolutely certain.
bort@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 87d
iirc dan carlin suggested something along the lines: what made rome a superpower was their ability to take a punch, and then get up again to win the fight.
(so basically what you said, but with boxing-framing instead of futuarama-framing)
deathmetal27@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 87d
Rome: I didn't hear no bell.
pressanykeynow@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 87d
To be fair Scipio did have superior strategy and leadership if only in being smart enough to get Masinissa on his side.
PugJesus@piefed.social · 3 pts · 87d
Scipio: "What if we LEARN from Hannibal?"
The Senate: "Fucking dweeb"
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 87d
And then when that didn’t work they burned all their crops and ran away, which actually did work.
W3dd1e@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 87d
ICastFist@programming.dev · 4 pts · 87d
OG
ImperialRepublican GuardPugJesus@piefed.social · 3 pts · 87d
FOR EACH I OF US WHO FALLS, X MORE SHALL TAKE HIS PLACE
nagaram@piefed.social · 3 pts · 87d
"ERM actually their strategy was perfect they-"
Cites a YouTube video that cites a historian who made it the fuck up
gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org · 3 pts · 87d
funnily enough, if i understand this correctly, giving the army more soldiers and attacking hannibal directly turned out to actually not work at all, as they were utterly annihilated. instead, the more cautious and clever scipio turned the war around by using actual tactics instead of just bluntly attacking up front.
source: watched the 2 oversimplified videos about it last night.
PugJesus@piefed.social · 2 pts · 87d
Scipio did land some of the most devastating blows, but there was almost a decade of work in-between by Fabius and Marcellus, wherein they engaged in the radical technique of [checks notes] only offering to battle on their own terms, and not Hannibal's time and field of choice.