As an enthusiastic idiot, why is it apparently so difficult for linux to provide basic telephone functionality? That seems like an oddly low tech thing to be struggling with.
But what makes it hard is that you're dealing with very obsfucated hardware that really doesn't want to cooporate with a complex protocol that every carrier also implements slightly differently.
Holy smokes, and here I am thinking that 6" is too big but no mainstream devices are below that anymore. I remember when we called these phablets and IMO 4.5" was acceptable and very pocketable.
I assume people craving a 7" phone are using it as one of their main media consumption devices instead of a desktop, laptop, or TV.
I get that it's not nothing to make an application that can utilize the hardware built into the device to access the cellular network, but multiple applications that do this already exist on Android phones. Sorry if I was being a little flip.
The apps literally just tell the OS to call a certain number AND provide a menu for the call, latter chosen via the default apps system. So if you have dialer X selected but dial a number using Y, it will just open X's menu.
You can just not have a phone app selected (AOSP GSI builds come this way for some reason). The behavior for that is that the phone will vibrate for a call but you can't accept it. If you then dial a number using the app that's not actually selected, it will call the person but the dial pad will never close and there will be no way to hang up. Source: truss me bro (or more seriously, it was from a YouTube video).
Point is, the apps do nothing for the call. The audio doesn't even go through them.
There used to be call recording dialer apps, but what they did is literally tell Android to record a video, since regular audio recording isn't allowed during a call. It wants a file path but some Unix magic makes it feed to a file converter instead. The file converter then spits out an audio file. Dead after Android 9.
Honestly the biggest problem is how much people are overthinking trying to make a Linux OS for a phone. Starting from zero and making a mess instead of just forking asop and redoing the UI/storage framework. We don't necessarily need something made from scratch just something that's actually open and in our control
The UI userland is the easiest part of a linux phone, its basically all the stuff that is already running on desktop. Forking AOSP and redoing the UI/storage framework is a ton of effort and not the problem.
The issue is the kernel, even if you use a AOSP userland you still need to get all the hardware working in the kernel, unless you use vendor kernels but that contradicts the open and in our control part.
If you didn't start from scratch you can't be in control. Simply said. Also, the most difficult part is hardware and chipset drivers, stable supply of parts and so on. It's not that easy and no wonder to me why it takes literally an infinite amount of time to get a "linux phone" going - aaand keep it up.
SailfishOS is quite nice, I've used it over ten years.
But now I am considering whether a minimal phone for voice, chat, and WiFi thethering, plus a small Linux handheld/palmtop with x86_64 hardware, PC BIOS, a physical keyboard and running, say, Debian is not the better option. (I've been running a Gemini PDA for keeping notes and expenses using Ledger, and it is absolutely great for that).
I've been using it for years, runs smoothly. Phones are not ready for mobile GNU/Linux is more the reality. Low level firmware and drivers specific to each phone that is, else the OS is pretty solid.
Calls, texts, web browsing with full Firefox all work. Android app emulation bridges the gap, you can install from Google Play
I have used it since rhe initial ubu touch and every OS I've used is comically buggy and short on features, both major and qol. So I guess our mileage may vary.
Hard to have a new phone and be 100% working. As cool as functionality is, it's hard to gain mass appeal when it relies on owning the device already or relying on the used market.
I'm probably going halium/ubports until power gets sorted. I REALLY want Nixos on a phone, But I need to be able to have reliable inbound calls, data and full day battery.
I have Sailfish OS, just got the new Jolla Phone and I am quite happy with it. Surprisingly daily driveable for my requirements. My phone isn't a tiny laptop. Mic, IEM and camera work without issues. So does 4G VoLTE.
I know, its controversial for having some closed source UI parts (that are the reason why it doesn't feel like a tiny laptop) but the Linux/GNU underneath is open source. To those who are not requiring 100% FOSS purity it is an interesting choice.
When I tried Droidian, this was absolutely true, lol. Ubuntu Touch feels more like an os made for a phone, but has a lack of applications outside of waydroid and push notifications barely work
That's intended, yes. Cell infrastructure sucks and very little people want it. Those who want enough to write software for it will experience how much it sucks slightly behind the surface and will probably not want it anymore.
Hate to be that obligatory guy, but here we go - GrapheneOS is still the only non-corporate mobile OS that's fully suitable to be your daily drivers.
All the rest are just gadgets that you may want to fiddle with from time to time, unless you are a true purist, in which case you are probably well acquainted with your postal services and the community would benefit greatly if you also become interested in chemistry.
37 Comments
Sunshine@lemmy.ca · 63 pts · 1d
It’s a small price to pay to shatter android chains.
SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 1d
Pretty big price actually.
It needs help from regulators to break up the monopsonies in the manufacturing of smarphone parts and regulate open firmware standards.
apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world · 56 pts · 1d
Planning to install PostmarketOS, feeling called out.
ncc74656@lemmy.ml · 26 pts · 1d
Not seeing the problem here lol
GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 1d
As an enthusiastic idiot, why is it apparently so difficult for linux to provide basic telephone functionality? That seems like an oddly low tech thing to be struggling with.
TheMightyCat@ani.social · 23 pts · 1d
Because basic telephony functionality is not basic at all.
I got it working here, but it was the hardest part of this project by far: https://ani.social/post/34656971
But what makes it hard is that you're dealing with very obsfucated hardware that really doesn't want to cooporate with a complex protocol that every carrier also implements slightly differently.
sanitation@lemmy.today · -2 pts · 1d
I'll buy a fairphone if they release a larger model, like 6.8-6.9 ok inches and it works in us
ramjambamalam@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 19h
Holy smokes, and here I am thinking that 6" is too big but no mainstream devices are below that anymore. I remember when we called these phablets and IMO 4.5" was acceptable and very pocketable.
I assume people craving a 7" phone are using it as one of their main media consumption devices instead of a desktop, laptop, or TV.
deathbird@mander.xyz · 12 pts · 1d
Just needs a phone app. Then it's a phone. That's how all the other phones work.
diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 23h
I hope that was a joke. Or that you meant VoIP.
deathbird@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 13h
I get that it's not nothing to make an application that can utilize the hardware built into the device to access the cellular network, but multiple applications that do this already exist on Android phones. Sorry if I was being a little flip.
diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 6h
The apps literally just tell the OS to call a certain number AND provide a menu for the call, latter chosen via the default apps system. So if you have dialer X selected but dial a number using Y, it will just open X's menu.
You can just not have a phone app selected (AOSP GSI builds come this way for some reason). The behavior for that is that the phone will vibrate for a call but you can't accept it. If you then dial a number using the app that's not actually selected, it will call the person but the dial pad will never close and there will be no way to hang up. Source: truss me bro (or more seriously, it was from a YouTube video).
Point is, the apps do nothing for the call. The audio doesn't even go through them.
There used to be call recording dialer apps, but what they did is literally tell Android to record a video, since regular audio recording isn't allowed during a call. It wants a file path but some Unix magic makes it feed to a file converter instead. The file converter then spits out an audio file. Dead after Android 9.
LordKitsuna@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1d
Honestly the biggest problem is how much people are overthinking trying to make a Linux OS for a phone. Starting from zero and making a mess instead of just forking asop and redoing the UI/storage framework. We don't necessarily need something made from scratch just something that's actually open and in our control
TheMightyCat@ani.social · 22 pts · 1d
The UI userland is the easiest part of a linux phone, its basically all the stuff that is already running on desktop. Forking AOSP and redoing the UI/storage framework is a ton of effort and not the problem.
The issue is the kernel, even if you use a AOSP userland you still need to get all the hardware working in the kernel, unless you use vendor kernels but that contradicts the open and in our control part.
SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 1d
The main issue is all the closed source hardware firmware for basic things like the microphones, cameras and radios.
The UI and OS is the easy part. It reverse engineering the firmware that is the issue
Mucki@feddit.org · 7 pts · 1d
If you didn't start from scratch you can't be in control. Simply said. Also, the most difficult part is hardware and chipset drivers, stable supply of parts and so on. It's not that easy and no wonder to me why it takes literally an infinite amount of time to get a "linux phone" going - aaand keep it up.
HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org · 5 pts · 1d
SailfishOS is quite nice, I've used it over ten years.
But now I am considering whether a minimal phone for voice, chat, and WiFi thethering, plus a small Linux handheld/palmtop with x86_64 hardware, PC BIOS, a physical keyboard and running, say, Debian is not the better option. (I've been running a Gemini PDA for keeping notes and expenses using Ledger, and it is absolutely great for that).
schwim@piefed.zip · 5 pts · 1d
Mobile linux is not ready to be an OS for a phone.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 47 pts · 1d
It's an OS for a tiny Linux laptop, pay attention.
Canuck@sh.itjust.works · 18 pts · 1d
I've been using it for years, runs smoothly. Phones are not ready for mobile GNU/Linux is more the reality. Low level firmware and drivers specific to each phone that is, else the OS is pretty solid.
Calls, texts, web browsing with full Firefox all work. Android app emulation bridges the gap, you can install from Google Play
schwim@piefed.zip · 5 pts · 1d
I have used it since rhe initial ubu touch and every OS I've used is comically buggy and short on features, both major and qol. So I guess our mileage may vary.
Canuck@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1d
I hear you for sure, used to be a lot more bugs. My comments are based on Mobian Trixie, Bookworm was buggy, I hear PostmarketOS is also pretty good.
TheMightyCat@ani.social · 7 pts · 1d
What do you need for it to be ready?
I've seen people post this, but never say what they are actually missing
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 1d
OEM support.
TheMightyCat@ani.social · 5 pts · 1d
So if a phone is fully 100% working but not OEM supported its unusable for you?
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 1d
Hard to have a new phone and be 100% working. As cool as functionality is, it's hard to gain mass appeal when it relies on owning the device already or relying on the used market.
TheMightyCat@ani.social · 8 pts · 1d
Well do i have good news! if you count the Fairphone 6 (Q2 2025) as new i soon have it 100% working if you look at my posts here.
And as soon as the FP6+ releases i will do that one aswell.
Im going to sell it preflashed too once i hit that 100%, so in the hope to get that mass market appeal.
swab148@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 1d
Absolute legend!
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 1d
Good luck mate.
roundabout@feddit.org · 4 pts · 1d
What? Droidian works perfectly (Moto ThinkPhone)!
rumba@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 1d
I'm probably going halium/ubports until power gets sorted. I REALLY want Nixos on a phone, But I need to be able to have reliable inbound calls, data and full day battery.
Jiral@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d
I have Sailfish OS, just got the new Jolla Phone and I am quite happy with it. Surprisingly daily driveable for my requirements. My phone isn't a tiny laptop. Mic, IEM and camera work without issues. So does 4G VoLTE.
I know, its controversial for having some closed source UI parts (that are the reason why it doesn't feel like a tiny laptop) but the Linux/GNU underneath is open source. To those who are not requiring 100% FOSS purity it is an interesting choice.
pirate2377@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 1d
When I tried Droidian, this was absolutely true, lol. Ubuntu Touch feels more like an os made for a phone, but has a lack of applications outside of waydroid and push notifications barely work
diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 23h
That's intended, yes. Cell infrastructure sucks and very little people want it. Those who want enough to write software for it will experience how much it sucks slightly behind the surface and will probably not want it anymore.
ddplf@szmer.info · -2 pts · 1d
Hate to be that obligatory guy, but here we go - GrapheneOS is still the only non-corporate mobile OS that's fully suitable to be your daily drivers.
All the rest are just gadgets that you may want to fiddle with from time to time, unless you are a true purist, in which case you are probably well acquainted with your postal services and the community would benefit greatly if you also become interested in chemistry.
Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe · 7 pts · 1d
I prefer Lineage.
But either one is fine.
Mucki@feddit.org · 1 pts · 1d
Not the only, but possibly the best available. You didn't try other options, though.