Historically, due to different dyes, the blue colour varied from sky blue to navy blue. Due to more weather resistant dyes, the dark blue was chosen for the Union Jack and also sometimes used for the Scottish flag. Likeky for historical reasons, "back to the roots", in 2003, the Scottish parliament specified a lighter blue tone than the one used for the Union Jack.
Yep, 1707 was the union of the kingdom of England with the kingdom of Scotland, 1801 brought in the kingdom of Ireland - through all this, Wales was a principality (the Prince of Wales still being a significant title), under England.
Gwynedd tried to do over the English crown when they were already paying fealty, they quickly killed enough people across the rest of the Welsh counties to take control of most of them and set themselves against the English Crown, refusing to pay. So the English armies had to come and sort them. Gwynedd's actions effectively subdued Wales ... why anyone in the rest of Wales thinks this meant Wales was unified I'm not sure. Falling in behind the Northeners [of Wales], who it seems had Irish/Norse as their leaders, rather than falling in behind England when it was those North Walians that came around killing all our people ... it's weird to me.
Also, Welsh people ruled Britain (the Tudors), which is more than any English people {with long-established families from mainland Britain} have done since before the Norman Conquest. Again I don't get how the Scots and the Welsh moan about the English when both of them had a good go of ruling Britain (since 1066) and no English people have.
Anyway, if you're going to add this Welsh flag, which is really not old, why would you not first add the flags of Britons in the counties that were combined before the Normans took full control - Northumbria or Wessex or wherever. Mind you, you might still end up with a dragon/wyvern (viper).
The language went semi-extinct for a while; there was a period with no living speakers, and Cornish as spoken now was reconstructed from texts. Which means that we don’t know exactly how it used to sound, and the speakers of the older Cornish would probably not understand speakers of reconstructed Cornish. (Which sounds profound, though speakers of 17th-century English would have similar problems with modern English.)
Until the revival in Celtic nationalism from the late 19th century, people assumed that the Cornish consider themselves as indisputably English as those from historic kingdoms like Mercia and Wessex (and that the Welsh, once they see reason and give up their language, will do so as well, and in due time, there’s hope for the Scots and the Irish); the idea of a modern Cornish national identity would have sounded absurd to them.
speakers of 17th-century English would have similar problems with modern English
Late Shakespeare is in the early 17th century. It can sometimes take a moment to get attuned to the way of speaking, but their speech is absolutely intelligible to us, and barring some of the more out-there slang I suspect the reverse would also be true. You gotta go way further back to get seriously unintelligible.
Northern Ireland, which is actually the north of Ireland, isn't even in Brittain.
The official name is United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Great Brittain, and Northern Ireland. Which they should give back to Ireland. Maybe add Scotland and Wales as an apology, I'm sure they would love to join the EU again and leave England.
Also, looking at the Union Jack, the northern island cross is wrong, as well as the Scottish blue colour. So basically it's just an English flag with an artist's impression of their stolen terretories added to it, while forgetting Wales completely.
my favourite part of the UK will always be how they wanted to show that they've claimed northern ireland, so what was the best they could come up with?
Slap "london" in front of Derry, fucking beautiful. It's not just stupid, it sounds like shit too!
During the Plantation of Ulster by English and Scottish settlers, a new walled city was built across the River Foyle from the old site by the Irish Society, a consortium of the livery companies of the City of London.[13] In recognition of the London investors, the 1613 charter stated "that the said city or town of Derry, for ever hereafter be and shall be named and called the city of Londonderry".
honestly worse, they did it to suck off some fucking investors
80% of places in the English-colonised portion of the Americas are named after England lmao, there's a London, New York, a few hundred Springfields, Ipswich and even a Worcester in the USA. Americans can barely even pronounce Worcester
I realize I am on thin ice saying this as an Englishman, but I mean it dispassionately - in every poll the plurality of Northern Irish people want to remain in the UK and the Good Friday Agreement states that if the majority ever want a United Ireland then the Secretary of State has to call a binding referendum.
Is that poll only for all the Irish living on the stolen land, or does the poll include the settlers too?
I'm sure all the Americans want to stay in the US when there's a survey, but the results will be completely different when only natives are asked for their opinion.
Same with Tibet. There are so many Han Chinese there now, they would vote to stay with China if a poll was ever allowed.
Sorry mate, but it's such an English thing to say: "We colonized it and made sure the majority are settlers so if there ever would be a vote it will be in our favor." Just give back the stolen land mate. Don't follow in the footsteps of your brutal colonial ancestors. Be better than that.
I mean you're talking about settlers from the early 1500s with the repossession of lands taking place 1605-1610 with the first big rebellion in 1641 when Ireland truly lost its power over immigration.
It's further complicated by the Penal Laws of the early 1700s. If your family was (natively) Irish 300 years ago and stayed in Ireland but converted from Catholicism to Protestants, are you colonizers or not?
Hence why politicians have not been able to unstick the mess for hundreds of years
It's quite hard to distinguish who is "living on stolen land"
I get it, you can't make people leave when they are living there for several generations, but at least you can give back the stolen land. They can decide themselves whether they want to live in Ireland or prefer to move.
Is the land stolen? Yes it is. Does it belong to Ireland and should it be given back? Yes is does, and it should.
Do the inhabitants have a right to stay? Yes of course.
There, problem solved. Onto the next issue: The Brittish museum...
Who do you give it back to? Under whose authority? The UK didn't exist in 1501. Even Wales was it's own country at this point.
Britain, The British parliament and the British crown were distant concepts hundreds of years in the future.
Half the original Protestant order would've preferred to be ruled by Holland than England and half the Catholics would've chosen Scotland. Today Scotland and England are part of the same country (legally speaking) and I don't think the Dutch would be that keen to relitigate the Glorious Revolution.
Everyone notices the absence of the cool dragon flag, and mostly glosses over there being no attestation of the “Cross of St. Patrick” having been used until the United Kingdom needed such a thing for its new flag.
so three dudes got togther , got pregnant together and it made a ...whole new dude!? Hmm interesting, I will have to study this phenomena further.... 🧐
Mark my words, the terminal uncoolness that led the UK to not have a flag worth airbrushing on the side of a van is the same uncoolness that led to the modern condition of TERF island.
For Andrew maybe, he is in the Bible, the other two are later "Catholic"/Western Latin-Church figures, but thank you, the protestant churches I know doesn't recognize saints, I thought it was true for all of them.
St Patrick's Saltire was added after the Act of Union 1800 when Ireland (whole thing) was merged into the UK, they never bothered to fix it after Irish independence in 1920.
53 Comments
lena@gregtech.eu · 85 pts · 3d
CobraCommander@quokk.au · 27 pts · 3d
Tom of Smurf Village
blockheadjt@sh.itjust.works · 24 pts · 3d
What the hell
BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 3d
I hope this existed in its current form before yesterday.
cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone · 15 pts · 3d
wait am i horny for smurfs now?
CalypsoGirl@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 2d
Don't blame yourself. Blame whoever thought that up & drew it. THEY'RE the one with issues.
PrimeMinisterKeyes@leminal.space · 4 pts · 3d
Blue Man Group, rebranded
NOT_RICK@lemmy.world · 69 pts · 3d
Wales erasure aside, why is the Union Jack blue so much darker?
Successful_Try543@feddit.org · 57 pts · 3d
Historically, due to different dyes, the blue colour varied from sky blue to navy blue. Due to more weather resistant dyes, the dark blue was chosen for the Union Jack and also sometimes used for the Scottish flag. Likeky for historical reasons, "back to the roots", in 2003, the Scottish parliament specified a lighter blue tone than the one used for the Union Jack.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Scotland#Design
rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 56 pts · 3d
Gotta change the answers a bit, otherwise the teacher will notice
the_q@piefed.social · 4 pts · 3d
More sad.
StupidBrotherInLaw@lemmy.world · 47 pts · 3d
To be fair, Wales was still a part of the Kingdom of England when the Union Jack was designed. All that means is a redesign is well overdue.
logannic@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 3d
Yep, 1707 was the union of the kingdom of England with the kingdom of Scotland, 1801 brought in the kingdom of Ireland - through all this, Wales was a principality (the Prince of Wales still being a significant title), under England.
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de · 5 pts · 3d
looks like it's set to be fixed by having everyone secede from the UK lol
pbhj@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 3d
Gwynedd tried to do over the English crown when they were already paying fealty, they quickly killed enough people across the rest of the Welsh counties to take control of most of them and set themselves against the English Crown, refusing to pay. So the English armies had to come and sort them. Gwynedd's actions effectively subdued Wales ... why anyone in the rest of Wales thinks this meant Wales was unified I'm not sure. Falling in behind the Northeners [of Wales], who it seems had Irish/Norse as their leaders, rather than falling in behind England when it was those North Walians that came around killing all our people ... it's weird to me.
Also, Welsh people ruled Britain (the Tudors), which is more than any English people {with long-established families from mainland Britain} have done since before the Norman Conquest. Again I don't get how the Scots and the Welsh moan about the English when both of them had a good go of ruling Britain (since 1066) and no English people have.
Anyway, if you're going to add this Welsh flag, which is really not old, why would you not first add the flags of Britons in the counties that were combined before the Normans took full control - Northumbria or Wessex or wherever. Mind you, you might still end up with a dragon/wyvern (viper).
FluidBeef@quokk.au · 3 pts · 2d
People can’t handle history that’s not white hat-black hat lol
ShyFae@piefed.blahaj.zone · 27 pts · 3d
Don't forget Cornwall! They have there own language, gash darn it!
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space · 18 pts · 3d
The language went semi-extinct for a while; there was a period with no living speakers, and Cornish as spoken now was reconstructed from texts. Which means that we don’t know exactly how it used to sound, and the speakers of the older Cornish would probably not understand speakers of reconstructed Cornish. (Which sounds profound, though speakers of 17th-century English would have similar problems with modern English.)
Until the revival in Celtic nationalism from the late 19th century, people assumed that the Cornish consider themselves as indisputably English as those from historic kingdoms like Mercia and Wessex (and that the Welsh, once they see reason and give up their language, will do so as well, and in due time, there’s hope for the Scots and the Irish); the idea of a modern Cornish national identity would have sounded absurd to them.
Zagorath@quokk.au · 1 pts · 2d
Late Shakespeare is in the early 17th century. It can sometimes take a moment to get attuned to the way of speaking, but their speech is absolutely intelligible to us, and barring some of the more out-there slang I suspect the reverse would also be true. You gotta go way further back to get seriously unintelligible.
InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 3d
Its how Monsanto was able to interrogate different strains of Maiz for their GMO back in 1877.
TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 22 pts · 3d
Northern Ireland, which is actually the north of Ireland, isn't even in Brittain.
The official name is United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Great Brittain, and Northern Ireland. Which they should give back to Ireland. Maybe add Scotland and Wales as an apology, I'm sure they would love to join the EU again and leave England.
Also, looking at the Union Jack, the northern island cross is wrong, as well as the Scottish blue colour. So basically it's just an English flag with an artist's impression of their stolen terretories added to it, while forgetting Wales completely.
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de · 8 pts · 3d
my favourite part of the UK will always be how they wanted to show that they've claimed northern ireland, so what was the best they could come up with?
Slap "london" in front of Derry, fucking beautiful. It's not just stupid, it sounds like shit too!
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 3d
That's how Londonderry got named? Are we sure the royals and drumpf aren't related? That's some Gulf of America/ Lake America crap right there.
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de · 5 pts · 3d
honestly worse, they did it to suck off some fucking investors
lyralycan@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 2d
80% of places in the English-colonised portion of the Americas are named after England lmao, there's a London, New York, a few hundred Springfields, Ipswich and even a Worcester in the USA. Americans can barely even pronounce Worcester
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2d
It's not our fault you guys spelled it like that when it rhymes with the word rooster. Lol
Kellenved@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 3d
But how else could you admire the Londonderry Air?
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 2d
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 2d
I realize I am on thin ice saying this as an Englishman, but I mean it dispassionately - in every poll the plurality of Northern Irish people want to remain in the UK and the Good Friday Agreement states that if the majority ever want a United Ireland then the Secretary of State has to call a binding referendum.
TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 2d
Is that poll only for all the Irish living on the stolen land, or does the poll include the settlers too?
I'm sure all the Americans want to stay in the US when there's a survey, but the results will be completely different when only natives are asked for their opinion.
Same with Tibet. There are so many Han Chinese there now, they would vote to stay with China if a poll was ever allowed.
Sorry mate, but it's such an English thing to say: "We colonized it and made sure the majority are settlers so if there ever would be a vote it will be in our favor." Just give back the stolen land mate. Don't follow in the footsteps of your brutal colonial ancestors. Be better than that.
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 2d
I mean you're talking about settlers from the early 1500s with the repossession of lands taking place 1605-1610 with the first big rebellion in 1641 when Ireland truly lost its power over immigration.
It's further complicated by the Penal Laws of the early 1700s. If your family was (natively) Irish 300 years ago and stayed in Ireland but converted from Catholicism to Protestants, are you colonizers or not?
Hence why politicians have not been able to unstick the mess for hundreds of years
It's quite hard to distinguish who is "living on stolen land"
yes_this_time@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Maybe we shouldn't judge or penalize people on the sins of their parents.
And when we start getting into blood purity it gets a little gross.
TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 1d
Ah ok, so if you steal it long enough it's fine.
I get it, you can't make people leave when they are living there for several generations, but at least you can give back the stolen land. They can decide themselves whether they want to live in Ireland or prefer to move.
Is the land stolen? Yes it is. Does it belong to Ireland and should it be given back? Yes is does, and it should.
Do the inhabitants have a right to stay? Yes of course.
There, problem solved. Onto the next issue: The Brittish museum...
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 1d
Who do you give it back to? Under whose authority? The UK didn't exist in 1501. Even Wales was it's own country at this point.
Britain, The British parliament and the British crown were distant concepts hundreds of years in the future.
Half the original Protestant order would've preferred to be ruled by Holland than England and half the Catholics would've chosen Scotland. Today Scotland and England are part of the same country (legally speaking) and I don't think the Dutch would be that keen to relitigate the Glorious Revolution.
TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 1d
Dutch guy here. Actually....
FluidBeef@quokk.au · 2 pts · 3d
We’re actually going to give them to America and Eire will be renamed Trump Island.
TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 3d
Name it prince Andrew island and Trump would love to visit on a regular basis as his favorite island is out of business.
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space · 21 pts · 3d
Everyone notices the absence of the cool dragon flag, and mostly glosses over there being no attestation of the “Cross of St. Patrick” having been used until the United Kingdom needed such a thing for its new flag.
Phantaminum@lemmy.zip · 16 pts · 3d
Excluding the coolest flag ever(or at least one of the coolest). What a move!
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 5 pts · 3d
Leave it to those snobby old English bastards to ruin any chance of fun!
Agent641@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 2d
The dragon took the photo of the other flags posing
CEO_Monk@piefed.social · 9 pts · 3d
So George + Andrew + Patrick = Jack?
UnequalExchange@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 3d
so three dudes got togther , got pregnant together and it made a ...whole new dude!? Hmm interesting, I will have to study this phenomena further.... 🧐
CEO_Monk@piefed.social · 4 pts · 3d
That sounds like an interesting sitcom now
UnequalExchange@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2d
SeaHorse Dads Series Coming In When?
NewDawnOwl@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 2d
YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems · 3 pts · 2d
Mark my words, the terminal uncoolness that led the UK to not have a flag worth airbrushing on the side of a van is the same uncoolness that led to the modern condition of TERF island.
PiraHxCx@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 3d
Wait... just noticed... they spent a few centuries in war against Catholics but kept waving Catholic symbols as their flags?
SmoothOperator@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 3d
Technically Christian symbols. The Anglican church also recognises saints.
PiraHxCx@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 3d
For Andrew maybe, he is in the Bible, the other two are later "Catholic"/Western Latin-Church figures, but thank you, the protestant churches I know doesn't recognize saints, I thought it was true for all of them.
jdr@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 3d
St Patrick's Saltire was added after the Act of Union 1800 when Ireland (whole thing) was merged into the UK, they never bothered to fix it after Irish independence in 1920.
cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 3d
wouldn't be surprised if they put cornwall on the flag before they put anything welsh
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org · 3 pts · 2d
Vexilroflogy
SaorSol@startrek.website · 0 pts · 3d
Shame that any are included in that Butcher's Apron
Won't be long until they all leave smelly old England at least