Europe won’t be able to finance Ukraine’s defenses against Russia’s invasion on its own if the US withdraws support under Donald Trump’s next presidency, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban said Friday.
Orban said recent events vindicated the conclusions from his controversial July diplomatic mission to Kyiv, Moscow and Beijing and showed Ukraine was losing the war.
“The Americans are going to get out of this war,” Orban, who is hosting a European Union summit in Budapest on Friday, said on public radio. “Europe can’t finance this war on its own.”
45 Comments
9point6@lemmy.world · 128 pts · 1y
Once again, Orban says exactly what Putin wants him to say
At some point it becomes malicious to even print what he says
davel@lemmy.ml · -15 pts · 1y
I’m sick & tired of this “vegetarians are just repeating Hitler talking points” fallacious reasoning.
Two people can come to the same conclusion without one parroting the other. In fact two people can come to the same conclusion for completely different reasons, or through completely different reasoning.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 1y
davel@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 1y
Oh, I remember you 😂
I think we went over this already…
Are we going to blame Russian bots for Harris’ loss as well? Because the FBI was already trying to the week before election day. FBI links video falsely depicting voter fraud in Georgia to ‘Russian influence actors’
hackerwacker@lemmy.ml · -28 pts · 1y
Once again, a lemmy.world poster says exactly what the state department wants him to say.
dariusj18@lemmy.world · -31 pts · 1y
There is an unfortunate reality that there is a tipping point. At some point, Europe will need to cede Ukraine and stock up for itself to defend the next Russian incursion.
9point6@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 1y
dariusj18@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1y
There is always a cutoff cost. For example, it cannot support Ukraine to the point that it's own territorial security is compromised.
SomeGuy69@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 1y
Ukraine is currently fighting this war for Europe too. Spending money and lifes directly in a confrontation is massively more expensive than sending weapons.
bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org · -13 pts · 1y
Yeah, why would Europe do that? After all its Ukrainians who will continue dying after being kidnapped off the streets and forbidden to leave the country.
Enjoy your life, and don't think of hundreds of thousands dead people (not like you ever did that of course)..
anachronist@midwest.social · 17 pts · 1y
Yeah the best way to discourage a revanchist is to give him what he wants. Succeeding in Ukraine will definitely convince Putin not to attack the baltics, poland, or finland.
AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com · 8 pts · 1y
davel@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 1y
The enemy is both strong and weak. Russia is a paper tiger that will roll over all of Europe.
AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com · 6 pts · 1y
davel@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 1y
You don’t understand what Russia wants; you understand what Western propaganda tells you it wants.
INB4 NATO is a defensive alliance.
makyo@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 1y
Just because you can cherry pick a dozen articles from the last TEN YEARS about NATO and Ukraine doesn't make you right.
I don't even need an article to refute all of that - Russia attacked a neighbor unprovoked, NATO has attacked NOBODY ever.
davel@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 1y
I just showed you any number of Western media sources on how it was provoked, but here’s another from Jeffrey Sachs: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace
For just two examples, NATO bombed the city of Belgrade for 78 straight days, and it destroyed Libya.
makyo@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 1y
davel@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 1y
That is not what happened. It is now known that that was in fact a false flag attack by CIA-backed Banderite fascists. It is also now known that the “peaceful protest” was not entirely grassroots, but rather astroturfed.
But why am I wasting my arguing with you when you’re obviously here for some reason to carry water for imperialists? The US is aiding and abetting a genocide in Palestine as we speak, yet somehow you still think we’re the good guys (though, to be fair, I wouldn’t call Russia a perfect angel, either).
anachronist@midwest.social · -4 pts · 1y
Lol. Neoliberal wrecking crew turned autocrat's errand boy.
davel@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 1y
Naomi Klein wasn’t wrong about neoliberal/neocolonial shock therapy, but she was wrong to paint Sachs as the great villain of that story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWYZpF2ngnc
davel@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 1y
As long as NATO stops its incursions, I don’t see why European states would need to do that.
dariusj18@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1y
I was saying that with the assumption that the US winds down support for Ukraine and is not seen as a trusted partner for European security.
davel@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 1y
I mean, the US Democrat administration blew up its European partner’s gas pipeline, which is a casus belli, so it was already untrustworthy.
Henry Kissinger:
makyo@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 1y
That is a crazy take. Europe could spend some money and help Ukraine win this without losing any of their own soldiers' lives.
Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 1y
yeah, it's only Ukrainians hopping into the meat grinder, after all
makyo@lemmy.world · 59 pts · 1y
He’s wrong of course, Europe’s economy is many times stronger than Russia’s. The real question is if they can find the collective will to defend themselves.
rottingleaf@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1y
shalafi@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 1y
Agreed. Apparently the mod does not agree.
piss_fit@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1y
TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 28 pts · 1y
In a sane world, orban, putin, Fico and Trump would have been rid of years ago
justdoitlater@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 1y
Orban is a traitor to democracy and mankind, fuck him.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca · 12 pts · 1y
uebquauntbez@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 1y
Orban only fears the EU gives less money to him.
jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 1y
Don't put a shithead's message in the headline. It spreads it. Headlines must be true, not false.
Look up George Lakoff videos, everybody.
davel@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 1y
The Eurozone is structurally neoliberal, austerian, and anti-Keynesian, and Europe—which was already greatly de-industrialized—is right now further de-industrializing thanks to their self-imposed sanctions against Russia (and thanks to their NATO “partner” blowing up their gas pipeline), which has raised energy prices.
Orban is correct.
highduc@lemmy.ml · -7 pts · 1y
Not a great guy, but in this case he is completely right.
TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 0 pts · 1y
bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org · -10 pts · 1y
I just hope he is correct
frozenspinach@lemmy.ml · 25 pts · 1y
I hope the Russians get out of it as it has hurt them the most.
davel@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 1y
It has unquestionably hurt the Ukrainian people the most.
wewbull@feddit.uk · 7 pts · 1y
The Americans aren't in the war. They're just dealing in arms.
davel@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 1y
Americans are in the war, but Western media aren’t going to broadcast that. We have support forces in Ukraine, we provide Ukraine with invaluable intel and targeting data, we have American volunteers in the International Legion (one of whom was killed in action this week, and he wasn’t the first). Biden announced yesterday that he’s going to let even more Americans directly fight in this war.
wewbull@feddit.uk · -1 pts · 1y
The international legion is made up of people from around the world, not just the US. It's not under US command. US civilians can act as they wish. Their actions are not the actions of their country.
The story you link is Biden relaxing US corporations taking up supply and support contracts. The article even says that these organisations will NOT be fighting, yet you willfully misinterpret it.
The USA, the country, is not in Ukraine.
bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org · -10 pts · 1y
For all the people here "supporting Ukraine" because you know, if Putin captures Ukraine then he will genocide Ukrainians and all that - this is exactly the same narration that Zelensky's regime is using to kidnap people and send them to the meatgrinder (kill them). A video from Kharkiv where TCC attempts to kidnap people from a bus scaring them with "Russian World" coming to Ukraine: https://files.catbox.moe/c72hez.MP4
People in the bus are accusing them of being "a traitor to the motherland" and telling them to go fuck themselves. But you know better what those people should do, right? They all should go and die for your wild fantasies of "but but but Putin will invade the whole world if we don't stop him (well, not you personally of course, why would you go and fight your wars, but you know, Ukrainians)".
After all, Zelensky said that Ukrainians are willing to fight, and he would never lie, right? All the videos, articles in your western medias about people NOT wanting to fight but still being exterminated by Zelensky's regime, etc are fakes.
davel@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 1y
The Russiagate conspiracy theories are evergreeen.
bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org · 3 pts · 1y
Eh, and as almost my every comment like this one, it got reported from LW user with reason "pro Russian bot" :/
If you think that caring about peoples' lives and posting evidence of human right abuses is somehow a sign of a person being Russian, or just something that is worth a condemnation.. What kind of mental gymnastics routine are you doing every morning to still consider yourself a good person?..
TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 0 pts · 1y
You know, I would be surprised that you say this insane shit, but you are in a libertarian instance, so irony is lost. Although I've never seen a libertarian tankie, so thats new. Fuck the government unless that government is a fascist one with a dictator, then that is okay of course
bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org · 1 pts · 1y
What? I just criticized a fascist government with a dictator, and you accuse me of not doing that? 🤦♂
And what is "insane" in my comment?
TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 0 pts · 1y
Ukranian governement is not fascist, nor with a dictator. If they werent invaded by a fascist imperialist government, they would have had elections by now. They don't have them, because the polling places would be shelled by orcs, as they always shell civilians.
Posting a random video, with a story, without providing a single fucking source (that isn't russian propaganda). You also insinuated zelenski is exterminating his people, which is insane
bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org · 3 pts · 1y
It is both. Zelensky's regime ticks almost every (or just every) description of fascism from wikipedia. He is a dictator. Even your comment in the next sentences doesn't DISPROVE it, you merely try to JUSTIFY it.
I (re)posted dozens of such videos already, where my compatriots who haven't managed to escape Zelensky's murderous regime either fight kidnapping attempts from TCC, or try to escape or are getting caught and busified.
This was described countless times in western media https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/10/03/ukraine-is-employing-increasingly-controversial-methods-for-mobilization_6728127_4.html and I actually just found out it is also described in wikipedia now, including the word busification https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_conscription_crisis, and yet there is always someone to deny it. As for my sources, I mainly take it from Ukrainian telegram channels, where people post those from first sources.
"Ухилянт Iнфо": https://t.me/+ECYgfpxkTz4zOGNh
"Ховайся": https://t.me/HOVAYSY
"Реальний Київ": https://t.me/kievreal1
But Ukrainians are Russian bots now, right? How dare we, not willing to die for your interests?
Why? He literally forbade people from leaving the country, kidnaps people one by one off the streets and sends them to their deaths. How is this not an extermination? Every moment he remains in power is a moment he exterminates more and more Ukrainians, if he won't be stopped he will kill everyone.
mistahbenny@lemmy.ml · -5 pts · 1y
no comment