Looking back on medicine’s understanding of mental conditions, where things got lumped into ridiculous categories like “idiocy,” and then treated with lobotomies, it’s extremely easy to imagine that we are far from understanding it all.
Based on a couple responses, I think it is important to remember that science depends upon testing of hypotheses, no matter how "obvious" they may seem. We are not the armchair philosophers of yesteryear.
Now that we're starting to establish that autism may be a whole series of conditions, (which will still need further validation and hence more studies of the exact same thing) we can start identifying them in order to better understand them.
We are not the armchair philosophers of yesteryear.
Ironically, a big problem here is philosophical.
The autism spectrum was formed from reuniting different disorders and proposing a board neurodevelopmental category in which symptoms may vary widely from individual to individual. That was ontology informing nosology. Now we are seeking patterns again within this spectrum and finding a different number of them depending on which criteria we focus on. This is again a matter of abstract categorization, prioritizing some concepts over others, defining entities beforehand: philosophy again.
The latest study that was very popular found four categories considering age in which DSM-5 symptoms appear, and 'cluster' and severity of said symptoms. Those four categories still don't explain the PDA profile or the giftedness comorbidity that seems to actually change the cognitive patterns of classic ASD such as the preference for concrete thinking and the black and white (polarized) thinking, probably because behavioral and cognitive patterns weren't an important axis here.
Horribly said, the preliminary work in nosology is philosophical. I guess in all sciences. We often make our minds about what we are searching for before starting to empirically searching for it; and then the findings channel another series of scrambling concepts, updating hypothesis, etc.
Funnily enough, the philosophical weight only grows when the brain is part of the enigma (entire branches of philosophy dedicated to the "mind", the brain, etc.). Armchair philosophers' work again so that the field work is actually well designed/directed and meaningful in the ways we want it to be.
Let's not reduce the role philosophy has in current times, please.
I was speaking of philosophy not as it is today, but as it was - a precursor to "science" before the word even existed.
Armchair philosophers are a historical creature - they sat in their armchairs and deduced how the world works without getting up from their chairs to test any of their assumptions.
The armchair philosophers I am talking about have little to nothing in common with modern philosophers.
Autism isn't one thing, it's an umbrella term for tons of different degrees and various behaviors that often overlap with and co-minging with other neurological conditions. Oftentimes it's barely differentiable.
Describing perfectly normal human foibles, thoughts and feelings: "Look at me! I'm ADHD and autistic and neurodivergent and that makes me totally special! You wouldn't understand."
Motherfuckers need to watch The Breakfast Club. We're all struggling in our own ways, but under the hood we're pretty much all the same.
Wait, when did calling someone a normie or normal have to do with autism? Like I understand the link, but I had always it had been about making a distinction between inside and outside of your particular subculture. Like traditionally normies don't know/care about things people on 4chan know/care about, because they're outside of the culture. But the distinction could be for any subculture/interest.
And including CDS in the next DSM would help a lot. We need to identify people with the CDS profile as the things that work for them are (slightly) different from ADHD's.
There are many genes associated with autism, such as SCN2A, ANK2, and SHANK2. Any disruption to the gene expression of these genes can cause autistic traits. There are many diseases that disrupt these genes, and they can even have an effect after brain development.
I see a lot of people pointing out how autism is a spectrum disorder, so it would have a bunch of different presentations already.
That's true of course, but spectrum disorders typically have a set of core symptoms, and regardless of your particular presentation you need to experience all or most of them to meet the criteria for an affirmative diagnosis.
For example, My partner and I both have ADHD; the two opposing classic "types", (inattentive and hyperactive). There are a number of symptoms that relate to his type that don't apply to me, and vice versa. We also have different ways we've grown up trying to compensate for our symptoms, so they have different effects on us.
Undeniably though, we both experience all 7 core symptoms.
If scientists are making this claim, they must be saying that their research on ASD suggests they found there to be no definite core symptoms.
It would be crazy dumb otherwise to announce their findings studying a spectrum disorder, if their findings were, "it appears to be a spectrum disorder".😂
Sure, I could listen to scientists about the complex nature of genes and brain development or I could listen to someone else. Someone like RJK Jr, a man whose brain literally has worms in it. Whose boss, Trumpie, whose brain is turning into mush.
I frankly find it stupid how every type of autism has converted under ASD without really any distinction apart from support needs I believe, like someone with very mild low support needs autism gets the same benefits as a very high support needs low functioning autist.
And this goes further too due to the ambiguity. Here in Australia we have the NDIS, national disability insurance scheme, which is just that, to help the disabled, but as of recent there has been a sharp increase of cases of autistic children, and most have been on the borderline of not being diagnosed, and they still receive the same assistance, which is putting a huge strain on the NDIS.
Sad, but not surprising. I agree with social and disability payments but I am not naive enough to think they are often abused and exploited. Many people are getting assistance that should not, and many who desperately need it get none.
USA has lots of issues with our school systems with autistic children and parents who want to force them to be a part of the general school population when they should not be, and demand citys/towns give their children tons of extra resources that are already scarce, and they sue the districts which have no budgets/staff for this stuff...
Autism is an evolutionary regulation. I am labelled as autistic by the bourgeois psychiatry. Sad thing, it is called a 'disorder'. Now, back to why it is an evolutionary regulation: those who diverge are the ones who prevail when normality suddenly disappears; the non-divergent mindset can't handle it. Even though our own virtues are also our doom, nature keeps giving birth to us.
This reply, and the votes on both of our comments, confirm exactly what I described.
Instead of reviewing the scientific evidence and changing one's position accordingly, this guy went massively out of his way to try to create a personal attack, and everyone supported it because no one here is interested in the science/evidence, they're just trying to support their preconceived notions & biases.
Uh, Micheal, there’s not “scientific evidence.” You aren’t a doctor. You sell poop from strangers. If this was scientific, you’d expect some sort of standardization, instead of letting random people sell each other poop.
If parents make emotional, short-sighted choices, their kids will grow up thinking that's how it's done.
"Autism" is just what we call qualities in our children that we want to slap a label on, so we don't have to admit they learned it from us and we make irresponsible decisions too.
"This person is challenging a dubious status quo with a take I personally find uncomfortable, I know, I'll change the subject and insult them" believe it or not you have actually just demonstrated my point
No, you're "challenging" against over a hundred years of observations and research done by people with far more medical knowledge and understanding than both of us combined.
59 Comments
Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world · 86 pts · 302d
That’s why the Heath secretary is blaming Tylenol AND circumcisions.
Noja@sopuli.xyz · 43 pts · 301d
They are incredibly stupid but if stupidity stops male genital mutilation it's a small win
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 37 pts · 302d
I took Tylenol after my circumscision; how am I not double autistic?
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 42 pts · 301d
Two autisms cancel each other out because they have opposite polarities. It's basically some science.
arrow74@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 301d
So if they re-circumcised their penis then it's back to autism?
Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 301d
The buff doesn’t stack.
danc4498@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 301d
You are. Sorry to be the one to break the news.
Railcar8095@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 301d
That's only of paracetamol is the analgesic used while chopping
scarabic@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 301d
Looking back on medicine’s understanding of mental conditions, where things got lumped into ridiculous categories like “idiocy,” and then treated with lobotomies, it’s extremely easy to imagine that we are far from understanding it all.
Texas_Hangover@lemmy.radio · 19 pts · 301d
Idiocy is still a huge problem though.
janNatan@lemmy.ml · 37 pts · 301d
Based on a couple responses, I think it is important to remember that science depends upon testing of hypotheses, no matter how "obvious" they may seem. We are not the armchair philosophers of yesteryear.
Now that we're starting to establish that autism may be a whole series of conditions, (which will still need further validation and hence more studies of the exact same thing) we can start identifying them in order to better understand them.
Katrisia@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 300d
Ironically, a big problem here is philosophical.
The autism spectrum was formed from reuniting different disorders and proposing a board neurodevelopmental category in which symptoms may vary widely from individual to individual. That was ontology informing nosology. Now we are seeking patterns again within this spectrum and finding a different number of them depending on which criteria we focus on. This is again a matter of abstract categorization, prioritizing some concepts over others, defining entities beforehand: philosophy again.
The latest study that was very popular found four categories considering age in which DSM-5 symptoms appear, and 'cluster' and severity of said symptoms. Those four categories still don't explain the PDA profile or the giftedness comorbidity that seems to actually change the cognitive patterns of classic ASD such as the preference for concrete thinking and the black and white (polarized) thinking, probably because behavioral and cognitive patterns weren't an important axis here.
Horribly said, the preliminary work in nosology is philosophical. I guess in all sciences. We often make our minds about what we are searching for before starting to empirically searching for it; and then the findings channel another series of scrambling concepts, updating hypothesis, etc.
Funnily enough, the philosophical weight only grows when the brain is part of the enigma (entire branches of philosophy dedicated to the "mind", the brain, etc.). Armchair philosophers' work again so that the field work is actually well designed/directed and meaningful in the ways we want it to be.
Let's not reduce the role philosophy has in current times, please.
janNatan@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 300d
I was speaking of philosophy not as it is today, but as it was - a precursor to "science" before the word even existed.
Armchair philosophers are a historical creature - they sat in their armchairs and deduced how the world works without getting up from their chairs to test any of their assumptions.
The armchair philosophers I am talking about have little to nothing in common with modern philosophers.
Lemmyoutofhere@lemmy.ca · 29 pts · 302d
But, but but, what about Tylenol? /s
frunch@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 302d
That's it, next time i can't be bothered to make another uncomfortable phone call I'm using the Tylenol™ Defense®
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 301d
No shit sherlock.
Autism isn't one thing, it's an umbrella term for tons of different degrees and various behaviors that often overlap with and co-minging with other neurological conditions. Oftentimes it's barely differentiable.
GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org · 9 pts · 301d
Almost like it's a spectrum. Wild idea, I know.
FerretyFever0@fedia.io · 27 pts · 302d
How many autisms fit in one tylenol? How many vaccines in an autism?
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 19 pts · 301d
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 301d
No. The problem is pathologizing it. And those who self-pathologize themselves over it and use 'normie' as an insult.
Sadly people generally have a obsessive need to pathologize and demonize anything different than them.
Calabast@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 301d
God, I hate people who do that. There's something fundamentally wrong with them.
(\s)
shalafi@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 301d
Which describes a good chunk of lemmy.
Describing perfectly normal human foibles, thoughts and feelings: "Look at me! I'm ADHD and autistic and neurodivergent and that makes me totally special! You wouldn't understand."
Motherfuckers need to watch The Breakfast Club. We're all struggling in our own ways, but under the hood we're pretty much all the same.
Strider@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 300d
Phew, what a roundhouse kick.
And you're right, some people do that. But throwing all together is a massive asshole move.
You're the reason I need to pay to get a diagnosis. So I have proof. Not that it means anything to me because I know.
I just want do give you that reflection. It sucks being in a minority (which, yes, you literally can not understand).
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 301d
they don't have the attention span to watch a 90 minute movie.
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 301d
greedytacothief@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 300d
Wait, when did calling someone a normie or normal have to do with autism? Like I understand the link, but I had always it had been about making a distinction between inside and outside of your particular subculture. Like traditionally normies don't know/care about things people on 4chan know/care about, because they're outside of the culture. But the distinction could be for any subculture/interest.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 300d
autism threads on lemmy are full of autism supremacists. it's insane.
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 300d
Cargon@lemmy.ml · 18 pts · 300d
We prefer the term Acetaminophen-Americans.
MapleEngineer@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 301d
Me: I got my MMR boosted at 56, I take Tylenol, and I am circumcised. Now I have autism.
Friend: You had autism before.
Me: Oh! Right!
eleitl@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 301d
Same thing with ADHD. There are at least two distinct subtypes, but likely more.
Katrisia@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 300d
And including CDS in the next DSM would help a lot. We need to identify people with the CDS profile as the things that work for them are (slightly) different from ADHD's.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 301d
Too bad fash care about power and violent control, not science.
chunes@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 301d
There are many genes associated with autism, such as SCN2A, ANK2, and SHANK2. Any disruption to the gene expression of these genes can cause autistic traits. There are many diseases that disrupt these genes, and they can even have an effect after brain development.
Atkat@leminal.space · 8 pts · 300d
I see a lot of people pointing out how autism is a spectrum disorder, so it would have a bunch of different presentations already.
That's true of course, but spectrum disorders typically have a set of core symptoms, and regardless of your particular presentation you need to experience all or most of them to meet the criteria for an affirmative diagnosis.
For example, My partner and I both have ADHD; the two opposing classic "types", (inattentive and hyperactive). There are a number of symptoms that relate to his type that don't apply to me, and vice versa. We also have different ways we've grown up trying to compensate for our symptoms, so they have different effects on us.
Undeniably though, we both experience all 7 core symptoms.
If scientists are making this claim, they must be saying that their research on ASD suggests they found there to be no definite core symptoms.
It would be crazy dumb otherwise to announce their findings studying a spectrum disorder, if their findings were, "it appears to be a spectrum disorder".😂
Maeve@kbin.earth · 8 pts · 302d
https://archive.ph/FLX19
Doomsider@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 301d
Oh wow, are we realizing the definition of a syndrome all of the sudden.
Agent641@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 300d
So they aren't Fae changelings after all?
horn_e4_beaver@discuss.tchncs.de · 7 pts · 301d
But the foreskin?
bhamlin@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 301d
It's the combo. Tylenol and circumcision.
Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 301d
So women can't be autistic eh? Good to know.
bhamlin@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 300d
See, you already sound like most of the medical community!
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 300d
You can circumcise a woman!
ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one · 6 pts · 301d
Sure, I could listen to scientists about the complex nature of genes and brain development or I could listen to someone else. Someone like RJK Jr, a man whose brain literally has worms in it. Whose boss, Trumpie, whose brain is turning into mush.
Check mate scientists.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 301d
Isn't that why we call it a syndrome? I mean, that's something that everyone with a minimum of insight in the matter knows.
biggerbogboy@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 300d
I frankly find it stupid how every type of autism has converted under ASD without really any distinction apart from support needs I believe, like someone with very mild low support needs autism gets the same benefits as a very high support needs low functioning autist.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 300d
Yeah. Massive difference between those who have mild autistic issues an those who are essential disabled from normal life by it.
Yet the former seem to think they are the ones who are 'truly' suffering.
biggerbogboy@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 300d
And this goes further too due to the ambiguity. Here in Australia we have the NDIS, national disability insurance scheme, which is just that, to help the disabled, but as of recent there has been a sharp increase of cases of autistic children, and most have been on the borderline of not being diagnosed, and they still receive the same assistance, which is putting a huge strain on the NDIS.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 300d
Sad, but not surprising. I agree with social and disability payments but I am not naive enough to think they are often abused and exploited. Many people are getting assistance that should not, and many who desperately need it get none.
USA has lots of issues with our school systems with autistic children and parents who want to force them to be a part of the general school population when they should not be, and demand citys/towns give their children tons of extra resources that are already scarce, and they sue the districts which have no budgets/staff for this stuff...
individual@toast.ooo · 3 pts · 301d
Zier@fedia.io · 2 pts · 301d
So I should stop taking Tylenol? Crap! What if I smear Ivermectin all over my face, will that work? Or will it just make me a republican.
Vandals_handle@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 301d
Maybe if you smear it on your genitals you can re-grow your foreskin.
sosso@lemmy.pt · 1 pts · 273d
Autism is an evolutionary regulation. I am labelled as autistic by the bourgeois psychiatry. Sad thing, it is called a 'disorder'. Now, back to why it is an evolutionary regulation: those who diverge are the ones who prevail when normality suddenly disappears; the non-divergent mindset can't handle it. Even though our own virtues are also our doom, nature keeps giving birth to us.
pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -1 pts · 301d
Not if rfk can help it. Only caused by Tylenol drinking jews
MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 301d
The headline is completely misleading & false, but since it supports people's biases, everyone is mindlessly agreeing with it.
If you want to actually learn about the cause of autism, and similar conditions, review the evidence: https://humanmicrobiome.info/brain/
andros_rex@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 301d
This is a website by a guy trying to sell poop transplants.
It appears that many of your comments are an attempt to advertise the poop transplants guy’s website.
Are you Micheal Harrop?
MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 277d
This reply, and the votes on both of our comments, confirm exactly what I described.
Instead of reviewing the scientific evidence and changing one's position accordingly, this guy went massively out of his way to try to create a personal attack, and everyone supported it because no one here is interested in the science/evidence, they're just trying to support their preconceived notions & biases.
Extremely unintelligent & anti-scientific behavior.
andros_rex@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 277d
Uh, Micheal, there’s not “scientific evidence.” You aren’t a doctor. You sell poop from strangers. If this was scientific, you’d expect some sort of standardization, instead of letting random people sell each other poop.
MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 277d
This is an absolutely nonsensical response, and a red herring logical fallacy. Extremely dishonest and unintelligent.
This is the original comment that linked to a plethora of scientific evidence: https://lemmy.world/post/37315936/19936596
blockheadjt@sh.itjust.works · -19 pts · 301d
People imitate their parents.
If parents make emotional, short-sighted choices, their kids will grow up thinking that's how it's done.
"Autism" is just what we call qualities in our children that we want to slap a label on, so we don't have to admit they learned it from us and we make irresponsible decisions too.
Mcdolan@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 301d
That username fits.
blockheadjt@sh.itjust.works · -6 pts · 301d
"This person is challenging a dubious status quo with a take I personally find uncomfortable, I know, I'll change the subject and insult them" believe it or not you have actually just demonstrated my point
Fluke@feddit.uk · 6 pts · 300d
No, you're "challenging" against over a hundred years of observations and research done by people with far more medical knowledge and understanding than both of us combined.
In the same way as Mr. Brainworm, I might add.