Homebrew, de facto standard package manager for macOS, now forces Apple's $99/yr notarization bullshit for all casks.

https://brew.sh/2025/11/12/homebrew-5.0.0/

Shame on you, Homebrew, for effectively killing FOSS apps from casks.

245 points · 50 comments · view on lemmy.world

50 Comments

Korne127@lemmy.world · 72 pts · 272d

removing macOS Gatekeeper bypass behaviours

dafuq? That's basically the entire point

So yeah, there will be a fork soon that's just compatible with the casks. Luckily that is very easily to do / manage

Jimmycrackcrack@lemmy.ml · 49 pts · 272d

Et tu brewtus?

KoalaUnknown@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 272d (9 replies)

Their explanation as to why:

--no-quarantine is used to forcibly bypass Gatekeeper, which is a built-in macOS security mechanism. This is used to run unsigned/unnotarized applications.

macOS Tahoe is the final release to support Intel systems, and last year Apple updated macOS runtime protection to make it harder to override Gatekeeper. Macs with Apple silicon also don't "permit native arm64 code to execute unless a valid signature is attached". Finally, we are ending support for all casks that fail Gatekeeper checks on September 1st, 2026.

With the above in mind, it's time to deprecate the --no-quarantine flag from brew. It intentionally bypasses macOS security mechanisms, which we already actively discourage. Deprecating now will give a decent lead time for users using it to come up with another solution or adjust their workflows.

arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone · 32 pts · 272d (8 replies)

Deprecating now will give a decent lead time for users using it to come up with another solution or adjust their workflows.

The adjusted solution/workflow: use something other than homebrew

lepinkainen@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 272d (5 replies)

How will these other solutions bypass Apples quarantine?

arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone · 22 pts · 272d (4 replies)

By doing what homebrew currently does when you pass the --no-quarantine flag, which is call xattr.

Note that I'd probably support removing --no-quarantine if Apple's notarization service was free.

monogram@feddit.nl · 12 pts · 272d (3 replies)
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arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 272d (2 replies)

Yes, but you can still compile the code yourself. It's only problematic for binary distribution. This is basically a question of balancing security vs. freedom I suppose.

monogram@feddit.nl · 1 pts · 271d (1 reply)
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arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone · 0 pts · 271d

Difference is compiling an app from source for Android is not really feasible on Android devices, whereas doing so on macOS is literally built into the package managers for macOS and is generally pretty trivial beyond it taking more time.

Also, macOS doesn't prevent you from running the apps entirely.

dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 272d (1 reply)

I mean, theres macports and what else? Is macports even kickin still? No other package managers other than homebrew

arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 272d

Pretty sure it's still around. Nix is an option as well.

Chaser@lemmy.zip · 36 pts · 272d (13 replies)

May be a sign to install Linux 😏 brew sucks anyways

stupidcasey@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 272d (1 reply)

True but I desperately need no compatibility, closed source, AppleCare, expensive hardware, limited lifespan, lock in .... What did you call it Linux?

turbowafflz@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 271d

It's crazy how bad software compatibility on macos is. I used to assume it was about the same or slightly better than linux in that regard, but my attempts to help my friend play games on macos have almost entirely failed despite the fact that I have tons of experience playing games on linux since it's always been my main os

chocrates@piefed.world · 24 pts · 272d (7 replies)

I'm stuck with it at work. Plus Linux usually sucks on Mac for a long time while drivers get written

6nk06@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 272d (1 reply)

MacPorts has always been better.

cv_octavio@piefed.ca · 3 pts · 272d
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monogram@feddit.nl · 1 pts · 272d (1 reply)
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chocrates@piefed.world · 3 pts · 271d

I'll check It out. I gave up and flashed Mac back on it and gave I to my sister. At least she's off windows now.

Only pc I have that I can do any thing with is a Thinkpad with linux

Chaser@lemmy.zip · -1 pts · 272d (2 replies)

I feel you. Once I was forced to code on a mac too. It made me insane ☠️

chocrates@piefed.world · 1 pts · 271d (1 reply)

Even with wsl windows was a much bigger pain imo.

Right now the biggest issue is my company end point security

Chaser@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 271d

Pre-11 windows was at least less buggier than Mac OS. But I agree: It's a big pain too! Linux just works better for me.

ianonavy@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 272d (2 replies)

If Brew sucks, why is it the preferred package manager for CLI tools in Bazzite?

Chaser@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 271d (1 reply)

I don't use Bazzite. But if you have any pro arguments for Brew, feel free to share them. Change my mind.

ianonavy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 271d

I don’t really have an opinion, just an observation that switching back to Linux for me did not take me away from Homebrew

plz1@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 272d (2 replies)

Heh, there goes Librewolf's only sane updating mechanism. IIRC, the devs of that are vehemently against paying Apple the money to sign the code, and they also fail to provide their own updater. It was one of the main drivers behind my switch to Waterfox.

WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 270d (1 reply)

bad librewolf, shame on them for not paying the tax

plz1@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 269d

Snark all you want, a browser that breaks every time it updates because the code isn't signed, not great.

brax@sh.itjust.works · 28 pts · 272d (6 replies)

But I thought Mac was just Linux for people who loved to spend money... Seems on brand to me.

Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 21 pts · 272d (2 replies)

*Unix

SaltySalamander@fedia.io · 10 pts · 272d (1 reply)

**BSD

Revan343@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 271d

Both

noahimesaka1873@lemmy.funami.tech · 2 pts · 272d (2 replies)

That's why I buy Macs! /hj (Though I do install and use Arch BTW on my M2 MacBook Air)

dan69@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 271d (1 reply)

Only arch users say that.

tias@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 271d

Why would someone using another OS say that they use arch?

MissingInteger@lemmy.zip · 26 pts · 272d

The unsigned (FOSS) Apps aren't removed yet. They will be removed by 2026-09-01. Removing --no-quarantine before that seems counter productive. And quite frankly removing unsigned Apps at all seems like a stupid idea. Homebrew is a third party package mamager, why are they precapitulating to Apple?
Third party taps (or are they fourth party?) will step in. You can run xattr -d com.apple.quarantine in the .rb file.

Relevant links.

CocaineShrimp@sh.itjust.works · 22 pts · 272d (3 replies)

I don't think this is homebrews fault? It looks like apps need to be signed to run on apple silicone.

noahimesaka1873@lemmy.funami.tech · 21 pts · 272d

Yes and no. Yes, it has to be signed, but no, it doesn't have to be Apple's signing, it can be ad-hoc signed for the device programmatically. What they're doing is that removing that ability to remove quarantine bits and ad-hoc signing on installation and forcing everything to be Apple-signed.

EDIT: Ad-hoc signing is compile-time. Quarantine bit just has to be removed at install-time.

mectag@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 272d (1 reply)
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noahimesaka1873@lemmy.funami.tech · 18 pts · 272d

100% their fault since there's a way to ad-hoc sign and run, and they're removing it and sucking Apple's dick.

EDIT: and there's even an example found in one of this post's comment of a 3rd party cask doing that in preparation of complete flag removal from Homebrew!

piyuv@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 272d

https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/20755#issuecomment-3330984446

In the end, the whole point of Gatekeeper is to protect end users as much as reasonable, and continuing to make it easy to bypass isn't a good thing in my view.

Whole point of Gatekeeper is Apple policing users’ devices. The security benefit is just a side effect. If anything, users need to be protected from Apple more than small time hackers.

This is a shame. Big tech brain is affecting developers everywhere.

Controversial opinion: best way to learn fire will burn you is to try and see. I personally learned a lot about computers by infecting my machine with a shitton of malware when I was a kid. Modern parents are very adamant on letting kids run free and learn stuff by themselves, why not apply the same logic to computers?

mumblerfish@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 272d (4 replies)

I never understood what a "cask" in the brew lanuage means. I just do installs and if the brew install instructions involves a cask I just do it. How do I figure out which packages this will have an effect on on my system?

SuperUserDO@piefed.ca · 10 pts · 272d

Casks are as a rule GUI applications. So if you want to install Firefox with homebrew would need to install it via a cask.

WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 272d (2 replies)
brew list --cask

I think they've started flagging unnotarized apps as (deprecated), so maybe do a brew info on each.

MissingInteger@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 271d (1 reply)

You can simply run brew doctor and it will show you all deprecated casks.

WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 270d

Cool beans 👏

henfredemars@lemdro.id · 11 pts · 272d

What a shame. It’s probably my favorite tool on the platform.

natecox@programming.dev · 9 pts · 272d
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sem@piefed.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 272d (3 replies)

What does this mean?

KoalaUnknown@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 272d (1 reply)

Apps have to be signed to be installed.

lepinkainen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 272d

You can still install and run them but you need to manually him through the startup hoops once

GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 272d

if you use a Mac git gud.

woelkchen@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 271d

Homebrew could provide their own casks of FOSS applications, compiled on their infrastructure and signed by their key. It's kinda what F-Droid does on phones.

masterspace@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 271d

Code signing should be done though.

You can disagree with Apple's approach that maintains them as the only signing authority, but, at a fundamental level, code signing is the only way to distribute an executable and have the user be able to trust who authored it (and thus what's in it).

cv_octavio@piefed.ca · 3 pts · 272d
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myfunnyaccountname@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 272d

Of the like 30 things I have installed through brew, 1 is not signed. Do I agree with the change, no. But there are other options out there.