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c/techtakes · by dgerard@awful.systems · 232d

Firefox browser falls to AI. What do we do now?

https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/12/23/firefox-browser-falls-to-ai-what-do-we-do-now/

where ‘absolutely not’ means ‘maybe later’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c40irxnC_qM&list=UU9rJrMVgcXTfa8xuMnbhAEA - video
https://pivottoai.libsyn.com/20251223-firefox-browser-falls-to-ai-what-do-we-do-now - podcast

time: 9 min 39 sec

139 points · 102 comments · view on lemmy.world

102 Comments

BlueMonday1984@awful.systems · 58 pts · 232d (10 replies)

you_were_the_chosen_one.gif

I jumped ship to Librewolf a year and a half ago (after seeing Mozilla steal people's data and sell it to advertisers), and I'm pretty fucking thankful for that. For anyone looking to leave Mozilla to rot, I highly recommend it.

self@awful.systems · 8 pts · 232d (8 replies)

how are the defaults for librewolf? I’m considering switching but I’m hearing mixed things about the defaults occasionally breaking sites. waterfox seems pretty good too, but I don’t see it packaged as frequently as librewolf.

blakestacey@awful.systems · 14 pts · 232d

My only difficulty with LibreWolf on Ubuntu was getting it to be the default browser (it didn't show up in the list of options). Turns out xdg-settings set default-web-browser librewolf.desktop on the command line did the trick.

smiletolerantly@awful.systems · 14 pts · 232d

Not the person you replied to, but I also switched to Librewolf a couple of months ago, also greatly enjoy it. Here's a link to my nix config where Librewolf gets made to behave a little closer to default Firefox in terms of usability. Honestly not too bad!

ebu@awful.systems · 13 pts · 232d (1 reply)

i'll go against the grain here: Librewolfs's defaults are firmly "meh" for me. still an improvement over the "what the fuck" that's happening in Firefox.

pros: nixs the annoying Pocket / AI / "suggested" nonsense by default. no annoying extras.

neutrals: Firefox Sync is off, but one click and a restart to turn back on. reasonable for a non-Mozilla project. no cookies saved by default might be annoying for some, but you can add exceptions right from the URL bar and i only have a dozen or so of those set for various sites. gods, cohost is still in that list...

cons: ResistFingerprinting is IMHO way overkill and breaks nice things like automatic dark modes just for preserving privacy in the 0.001% of cases where browser fingerprinting matters. same as WebGL being off by default -- i just don't need that kind of protection

i still recommend it. Disable ResistFingerprinting, enable WebGL, enable Firefox Sync, and decide for yourself if you want auto-clearing cookies or not. i also always enable vertical tabs because my horizontal space is a lot less constricted than my vertical. (it's a FF feature!)

ken@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 203d

If you are on Linux I think you will find interest in Konform Browser, which started as a fork of LibreWolf addressing some of your pains. Am dev so please allow me to shill for a bit.

Specifically to your comment:

ResistFingerprinting is IMHO way overkill and breaks nice things like automatic dark modes just for preserving privacy in the 0.001% of cases where browser fingerprinting matters

Konform can respect user theming preferences and dark mode even under Private Mode / RFP.

Firefox Sync,

While Konform still keeps it off by default, it allows configuring endpoints for a self-hosted or third-party Sync server from the Preferences without having to dive into about:config.

Besides that, it goes even further than LW in disabling built-in remote connections, snoopware, and AI integrations.

I hope you might consider it <3

fedi thread

reseller_pledge609@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 11 pts · 232d

The defaults are pretty strict, but most of the page-breaking stuff can be changed in the LibreWolf settings and each one has a description which usually contains a link to a wiki article detailing why you'd want to change it or think twice before changing it.

Wooki@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 231d

The defaults are significantly better than Brave. Hands down Brave has turned to garbage.

BlueMonday1984@awful.systems · 4 pts · 232d

Defaults are pretty good - didn't need to do much to feel comfortable.

Artaca@lemdro.id · 2 pts · 231d

started switching and testing options last week. Librewolf's default are awful, but undoing that has been better than having to look at the ugly Waterfox logo, in my opinion. If the logo is a non issue for you, WF had better default settings. I'm overly particular

jimmy90@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 232d

librewolf is great but Brave is better

self@awful.systems · 53 pts · 232d (18 replies)

if you’re here to recommend ladybird, tell us why you’re doing advocacy for that trash fire in spite of the well-sourced, ah, downsides pointed out in article and video linked from the OP.

same for brave. I don’t give a fuck if privacyguides told you it was the goodest browser.

if you’re here to advocate for ladybird or brave and haven’t read the article in the OP, fuck off. don’t come here pretending to discuss something you haven’t read.

Soyweiser@awful.systems · 28 pts · 232d

On the subject of Brave:

https://www.reddit.com/r/browsers/comments/1j1pq7b/list_of_brave_browser_controversies/ it really has a little bit to many controversies. (And the list is downplaying some of it, the wikipedia clone added wasn't just some random one, it is was the one created by the alt right, neo-nazi Vox Day. Addition of which by the CEO should be enough to not want to use the browser at all).

blakestacey@awful.systems · 18 pts · 232d (1 reply)

And if you're here to report the mods for rudeness, lolz

self@awful.systems · 15 pts · 232d

ahahaha delicious

self@awful.systems · 18 pts · 232d (7 replies)

important addendum: your reason for advocating for shit browsers owned by terrible people will be read out loud in the clown voice it deserves

blakestacey@awful.systems · 17 pts · 231d (6 replies)

Lemmy needs a feature where we can click a button on a comment and make everyone see that comment in Comic Sans.

self@awful.systems · 8 pts · 231d (2 replies)

so I’m not saying I’m writing this down for the Lemmy clone’s features list, but

nfultz@awful.systems · 7 pts · 230d 
.comment-node :has(.text-danger) {
    font-family: "Comic Sans MS", "Comic Sans" ;
}

Sorry (not sorry).

ShakingMyHead@awful.systems · 1 pts · 227d
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dgerard@awful.systems · 5 pts · 231d

coming in rizz i'm sure

Soyweiser@awful.systems · 2 pts · 230d (1 reply)

Careful, don't slander Comic Sans. It is an asshole, and has the party people on its side.

(I also think the font gets too much flak, perhaps to really show our distaste of the comment make it the fraktur font, and flip it around (I did recently learn that flipping a front upside down/around makes it very hard to read for people who have trouble visualizing things in their head, which I had not thought about as being an issue)

bitofhope@awful.systems · 3 pts · 228d

A simplified diagram showing the development of various latin scripts

pointing at the blackletter scripts Look how they massacred my boy!

bitjunkie@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 232d

I did like the part where the orcs attacked the Kremlin, though

WatchfulConsole@sh.itjust.works · -10 pts · 232d (1 reply)
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blakestacey@awful.systems · 13 pts · 232d

Please enjoy your free trip to the egress.

Jhex@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 232d (3 replies)
[ removed ]
self@awful.systems · 11 pts · 232d (2 replies)

shut the fuck up

blakestacey@awful.systems · 10 pts · 232d (1 reply)

Please, it's pronounced "Merry Christmas, ya filthy animal."

self@awful.systems · 9 pts · 232d

the wet bandits would absolutely be gigantic ladybird fans. especially after Kevin gave them a couple concussions each

jaschop@awful.systems · 29 pts · 232d (5 replies)

The era of useful Silicon Valley Non-Profits seems to be fizzling out. I wonder how long Signal is going to hold out...

jaschop@awful.systems · 10 pts · 232d (4 replies)

(Those are my 2 reference points, if I'm ignorant of some cool org let me know.)

kinsnik@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 232d (3 replies)

Wikipedia is still doing good

Which is why there has been some push to undermine it lately. I have noticed ai bro calling it deprecated by chatgpt, or musk's grokipedia

RnDanger@infosec.exchange · 11 pts · 232d (2 replies)

@kinsnik @jaschop
How are they gonna depreciate the expertise they need to cannibalize?
These people are not serious thinkers, or, at least they assume we aren't

RnDanger@infosec.exchange · 6 pts · 232d (1 reply)

@kinsnik @jaschop
I've tagged someone here and i have no idea how it happened 🙃

dgerard@awful.systems · 10 pts · 232d

welcome to lemmy-mastodon interop! here's your accordion

ekZepp@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 232d (14 replies)

Just pick one - All Fox functionality without bloatware

Librewolf

Waterfox

Floorp

[UPDATE] Zen Browser is also very nice

dgerard@awful.systems · 14 pts · 231d (2 replies)

sadly, Floorp is going AI browser. I mean, "choice" to pick the bits of rat poop out browser.

o7___o7@awful.systems · 4 pts · 231d

This is a banger of a metaphor

ken@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 203d
[ removed ]
V0ldek@awful.systems · 12 pts · 232d (8 replies)

I think I already said this but you're not making me use something called "Floorp" even if it's the last piece of software in the world. Just come on.

blakestacey@awful.systems · 11 pts · 232d (3 replies)

I used Floorp for a while. (The search engine that dominated the industry was named for a child's nonsense-babble word for 10^100; nobody has a leg to stand on here.) It had a rare but persistent (and thus difficult to diagnose) problem of crashing my laptop hard when opening a private-mode window. Also, they're planning to incorporate AI on an "opt-in" basis instead of rejecting it on moral grounds.

figjam@midwest.social · 9 pts · 232d

So thats a no on "Floorp" then. Good

V0ldek@awful.systems · 9 pts · 232d

The search engine that dominated the industry was named for a child’s nonsense-babble word for 10^100;

And how did that work out in the long term? There were warning signs!

swlabr@awful.systems · 6 pts · 231d

I only use software named after words that aren’t made up. That is, I don’t use software. I post here by waving copper wire at telephone poles to bit bash my way through the tubes.

Soyweiser@awful.systems · 4 pts · 230d (3 replies)

There is a wall decoration at the Enschede central station listing all the important companies started there by the local university and all but one I had not heard of (which is prob my fault) but those also all sounded like 'Floorp' I get a chuckle every time I walk past it.

MBM@lemmings.world · 4 pts · 229d

Tech people should be banned from naming things (I'm fine with including myself here)

V0ldek@awful.systems · 4 pts · 230d (1 reply)

Satire died when my friend told me at their Very Serious Corporation with a Very Important Mission Critical Software Stack they use a thing called "Splunk" and it wasn't a joke.

Soyweiser@awful.systems · 3 pts · 229d

Snort with Splunk!

TrashGoblin@awful.systems · 7 pts · 231d

Zen is AI free, at least so far.

nfultz@awful.systems · 4 pts · 230d

Waterfox lore - it got acquired by System1 of "Guy Who Runs Three Companies Called Fidelity But Not The Fidelity You Know Probably Doesn’t Care That There’s Already A Company Called System1 That Does That Same Thing As The System1 His SPAC Is Buying. Just saying." 1 and then went private again 2, presumably they bought it back after the stock predictably tanked. Subprime adtech is a strange place.

IMHO should just bring back iceweasel, but what do i know.

dgerard@awful.systems · 18 pts · 231d (1 reply)

from the youtube browser comments, "Ladybird is our last hope" seems to be the new standard promotional cut'n'paste phrase

last hope for what, you might ask? well the true anti-woke browser, which is much more important than actually, say, working.

presumably brave is too SJW for these guys, as well as basically working insofar as it's just a chrome reskin

they want the TRUE GLORIOVS FVTVRE that only a nonexistent thing that doesn't fucking work, and won't cos the lead bozo is vibe coding it, can offer.

in fashtech, promises of future glory always beat present day actually fucking working

bigfondue@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 230d
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AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space · 17 pts · 232d (1 reply)

Presumably, if Firefox version N breaks ad-blocking, someone can make a hard fork of version N-1. Security patches, upgrades to OS support and things like new CSS/HTML features can be cherry-picked or reimplemented to it, though Firefox updates in general will not be admitted, as it’s a hard fork (in the way that LibreOffice or MariaDB is). At worst, Firefox will actively make it hard to do this, closing their source or changing their licence to one which prohibits it, requiring any updates to be reimplemented clean-room style, which will slow things down, though if the alternative is actively enshittified, it’s the least-bad option.

sailor_sega_saturn@awful.systems · 13 pts · 232d

The good news is it generally isn't necessary to reverse engineer browser behavior when writing a browser. Since it's mostly fairly standardized, there's a decent test suite, and the major browsers are all open source.

Though this comes with some caveats:

  • There are exceptions like the CSS viewport spec which was reverse engineered from an iphone.
  • There are a lot of specifications because browsers have been around for decades and Chromium keeps implementing stuff, and it can be hard to find enough programmers to write all of them / catch up from a fresh start
  • This is a somewhat unstable situation; if we lose even a single major browser engine it's easy to imagine Chrome maybe not bothering with standardization and just telling people to read the blog posts and code.
  • Web pages will do nonsense like break themselves if you provide a User-Agent string they don't like. Mozilla has an ongoing compatibility effort where they sometimes have to override the UA string for specific pages. So less popular browsers are already playing from a disadvantageous position.
JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 232d (1 reply)

Move. I'm trying waterfox atm

Statick@programming.dev · 4 pts · 232d

I'm doing the same, and I gotta say, I'm really liking the small differences in the UI on both android and desktop.

The popup menu on Android is way better.

The customization for the tabs/highlights on desktop are great.

Subtle differences, but I appreciate the options nonetheless.

afporritt1001@lemmy.today · 14 pts · 232d (1 reply)

Use LibreWolf or WaterFox and ironfox for android

Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 231d

both of these depend on firefox for survival unfortunately, no real hardforks yet.

Seminar2250@awful.systems · 12 pts · 232d (2 replies)

I used Firefox for largely political reasons (summarized as "Google needs a competitor"), but it was becoming harder and harder to justify. Eventually, I just switched to a Chromium-based browser. I will say that, as an almost-good-enough solution until I wake up from this nightmare to a functioning Servo (🙏🙏🙏) , DNS level ad blocking (using Mullvad's DNS servers) + uBlock Origin Lite (filtering mode set to "complete") has been sufficient for me. It even blocks Spotify ads. I think it blocks YouTube ads as well, although I barely watch YouTube on my browser.

Ungoogled Chromium supports MV2 extensions and seems like a good choice if Firefox becomes unusable or you get fed up. I use Trivalent, a security hardened Chromium-based browser, but it may be tough to install if you aren't on Secureblue. Also it only supports MV3 extensions.

this shit is so fucking frustrating, just leave our browsers alone. we want security updates, not an unethically sourced bullshit-and-vulnerability-generator stapled onto the biggest attack surface on our fucking machine

jodanlime@midwest.social · -11 pts · 232d (1 reply)
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self@awful.systems · 23 pts · 232d

why are you holding out for a browser that the OP correctly calls out as being developed by a believer in white replacement conspiracy theories who also vibe codes his browser?

actually don’t answer that, don’t fucking post here unless you’ve read the article

sc_griffith@awful.systems · 10 pts · 232d (1 reply)

maybe my favorite pivot to ai article yet, definitely top three at least. wonderful work

sc_griffith@awful.systems · 11 pts · 232d

small typo.

So guess what Mozilla did? When you update Firefox, tt re-enables the AI! And if you disable the AI again, it re-enables it again next update! Choose correctly, user!

"tt" should be "it"

BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 232d (2 replies)

Librewolf or Waterfox.

Orion will also be getting a Linux version.

mii@awful.systems · 8 pts · 231d (1 reply)

As for Orion: while I like the idea of having a browser that’s neither Chromium nor Gecko in the mix, Orion is made by Kagi which, at least in the past, self-described as an AI company, so I’m not sure how much I trust their stance to keep slop machines out of it (spoiler: I don’t). Also their CEO seems like a bit of a twat.

And it’s not really open source either apart from the WebKit parts as far as I know.

self@awful.systems · 6 pts · 231d

their absolute twat of a CEO is still running kagi as an AI company, and kagi fans get really weird when you bring it up

Rhoeri@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 231d (3 replies)

It always amuses me when people fall in love with the next “but they’re one of us!” tech companies. You can’t say shit about it without getting destroyed by fanbois, but when they turn out to not be one of us, you’d damn well better keep your “I told you so!” to yourself- because they never let you tell them to begin with.

flying_sheep@lemmy.ml · -3 pts · 231d (2 replies)
[ removed ]
Rhoeri@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 231d

So tell me, is there something specific about .ml that attracts smug arrogance and a lack of nuance? Because at this point- it’s can’t be a coincidence.

self@awful.systems · 7 pts · 231d

are you fucking lost? you seem to be here from 2010 before we knew exactly what the “Mozilla Foundation” was, an organization that grifts nonprofit money and hires extremely gifted devs just to waste their god damn time

Soyweiser@awful.systems · 3 pts · 230d

Unrelated to the article/vid itself, thanks for making both a video, podcast, and an article. I know it is a lot of work, but I really appreciate being able to read it than having to watch a video.

"That’s the words of a guy you need to watch your drink around." chefs kiss.

fnix@awful.systems · 2 pts · 217d

Used FF for over a decade, switched to Vivaldi about a month ago. It's pretty much as the article says, adblocking not as good as FF+uBlock, but it mostly does the job, including YouTube videos. Note the inbuilt adblocker also works on mobile, tho there's no extension support there. One upside I discovered is that the performance is slightly better at least on my mid-range devices, the web is just built around Chrome-related browsers nowadays unfortunately. It's a bit feature-bloated for my taste with even an inbuilt browser-game (you can hide it from the menus), but honestly that's at least cute and more sincere than AI crap.

inkzombie@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 232d (2 replies)

Is Vivaldi still good?

Seminar2250@awful.systems · 10 pts · 232d (1 reply)

The least-worst of the Chrome reskins is Vivaldi, which has no AI. It has its own adblocker, but it’s not as good a blocker as FIrefox with uBlock Origin. And Vivaldi’s not open source. But they’re relatively non-evil.

NuclearDolphin@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 231d

no the best is UngoogledChromium (at least on desktop)

Evotech@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 231d

My god what a sensationalist headline

solomonschuler@lemmy.zip · -3 pts · 232d (5 replies)
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self@awful.systems · 13 pts · 231d

does arch not support reading the fucking article or any other comments in the thread before you show your entire ass posting here

swlabr@awful.systems · 9 pts · 231d (3 replies)

oh someone made a browser from scratch? tight

self@awful.systems · 11 pts · 231d (2 replies)

unironically fuck yes

froztbyte@awful.systems · 8 pts · 231d (1 reply)

bring back vrml and the browser can become a room you can diy on

I’m sure this plan will go perfectly with absolutely no issues

blakestacey@awful.systems · 8 pts · 231d

"I know this!"

MOCVD@mander.xyz · -4 pts · 231d (1 reply)

Wasn't there some mention of an AI kill switch for Firefox?

dgerard@awful.systems · 6 pts · 231d

dunno, what does the article say?

TheAsianDonKnots@lemmy.zip · -6 pts · 232d (6 replies)
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self@awful.systems · 21 pts · 232d

I’ll fucking turn you off

theparadox@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 232d

It's cumbersome to do so and it turns itself back on with every update.

atrielienz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 232d (3 replies)

Yeah. Either this or switch to a soft fork like Waterfox and maybe donate to Ladybird.

TheAsianDonKnots@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 232d

“Oh my god, Ladybird’s a racist”

Ledivin@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 232d (1 reply)

and maybe donate to Ladybird.

Ew. Read the article.

atrielienz@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 232d

Fine. Servo. The point was we need more options and the only way to get them is to develop more competition.

Engywuck@lemmy.zip · -9 pts · 232d (2 replies)
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self@awful.systems · 15 pts · 232d

from your profile and post history you appear to be, and I can’t believe I’m typing these words, a pro-Brave anti-Mozilla gimmick account. go the fuck outside.

jnod4@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 232d

I'd choose to never use Internet again than use a chromium browser

dwraf_of_ignorance@programming.dev · -15 pts · 232d (16 replies)
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self@awful.systems · 16 pts · 232d (15 replies)

tell us more about how you didn’t read the article or watch the video

specifically tell us how you missed ladybird’s developer being a fascist who’s already vibe coding the worthless fucking thing

actually no, maybe just don’t fucking post here

Evinceo@awful.systems · 6 pts · 232d (14 replies)

Why would anyone name a browser after Ronald Reagan's wife anyway

Edit: facepalm

blakestacey@awful.systems · 11 pts · 232d (13 replies)

LBJ's wife, not Reagan's.

swlabr@awful.systems · 13 pts · 232d (12 replies)

BRB starting my new browser named ThroatGoat

dgerard@awful.systems · 13 pts · 232d (7 replies)

uh have you tried xydfgq-blurble browser it's my home brew fork of chromium and firefox i call it "chromefox" which is also my fursona

thinking of changing the name to something lighthearted, marketable and non-objectionable like "GNU-Scrotum"

i am the only maintainer and i keep up with 110% of security issues

we are not in the android store as the oppressive statists at google said that if i ever switched on this uh "piece of shit" in a built up area theyd cut my nuts off, but

ignore the FUD about chromefox spilling your bank account and leaking your tastes in hentai and fucking your cat it's all LIES FILTHY LIES by THAT BITCH ANDREW he is SUCH an asshole

anyway free software stallman was right peace out

fullsquare@awful.systems · 11 pts · 232d (3 replies)

what have the furries done to you

ebu@awful.systems · 11 pts · 232d

we demonstrably have a better grasp of consent than the (rest of the) tech industry at large

Soyweiser@awful.systems · 3 pts · 230d

I assume it is a bit of the old SA leaking through. What is your opinion on anime David? (Otoh, it does remind me of the tool crystaldiskinfo (which reads out the SMART data from disks) which by default seems to push you to use their variants which have anime skins).

dgerard@awful.systems · 3 pts · 229d

chromefox

froztbyte@awful.systems · 8 pts · 231d (1 reply)

Chlorofox (the oxidized version)

fasterandworse@awful.systems · 6 pts · 231d

Theranox

swlabr@awful.systems · 7 pts · 232d

Chromefox: the Sonichu of FOSS

froztbyte@awful.systems · 7 pts · 231d (1 reply)

while wikipedia-diving the other day I learned about Basilisk

so, y’know, why not this too

dgerard@awful.systems · 5 pts · 231d

by the guy behind PaleMoon who is a bit of a chud

o7___o7@awful.systems · 4 pts · 231d (1 reply)

Follows the AdjectiveAnimal template. Im sold!

swlabr@awful.systems · 4 pts · 231d

It would be even better if it were . Unless we were to retcon throat as a classical element. I would not say no to that

TheAgeOfSuperboredom@lemmy.ca · -18 pts · 232d (1 reply)
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self@awful.systems · 14 pts · 232d

after a decade+ of Mozilla dropping the ball on purpose and violating user consent, thank fuck we’ve got you! somebody needed to pointlessly restate the latter half of the video while carrying water for the millionaire CEO of a nonprofit grift and I certainly as fuck would rather fucking die