I'm paying 3x my states monthly minimum wage for hourly workers to own in a fairly modest 1100 sqft house in a semi walkable area in a major city.
Before here I used to pay my states monthly minimum wage for hourly workers to live in a fucking slum just outside the city. House was by an interstate so I got soot on anything I left outside, all the houses in the neighborhood were water damaged and molded to hell, the roads were so cracked it was fucking up cars, and everyone who lived there seemed miserable.
It's grind or die, I got so fucking sick living in alleged affordable housing. Nerve damage and all kinds of weird chronic health problems from living in such a toxic death trap for years. They don't call it the Dirty South for nothing, this place is completely fucked.
Unhoused people living in cars aren't buying new cars, so it doesn't really matter what car manufacturers are doing today for them... and the maintenance costs are still way lower than paying rent
There was a problem with using housing as an investment vehicle, yes, though the state took action against that, destroying the "market" for balooning housing prices.
Renting is when your landlord makes you pay an extra 25 dollars a month because you yelled at him one time over leaving cat shit in the shared bathroom all day
China is building a working class-centered society. Class isn't really determined by wealth, but by relation to production and distribution, and this is why China's approach has consistently resulted in continuous improvements!
Reminder! China has 1,000,000,000 more people than the US. Not trying to be a China simp but fuck we need to fix the zoning and whatever else they got us in this mess if we can't even compete at this difference of population.
And I say this as someone who bought last July and would be kinda screwed if prices started going down
it's a lifetime lease and prevents the accumulation of generational wealth in real estate.
not flawless but generally still miles better than what westerners have. (nothing)
Why? Do you have evidence that suggests otherwise? Is there a particular reason you're so adamant that China's system must be worse than the commodified system we have in the west?
You are sealioning right now. You're asking someone else to do a shit ton of work under the guise of "just asking questions" pretending to have healthy discourse.
A lot of this sites people suck and its filled with people justifying absurd things, but right here, you are asking a question so open ended its tantamount to asking for a thesis paper, and those would still be scrutinized.
This may be a hot take but I think there should not be forever private ancestral lands.
The city/state should periodically get the land back and resell it to cover the ever changing maintenance costs (heck you are paying this with the increasing property tax)
The city/state should have a relatively predictable timeline of when they can reliably gain control of a land back so they can plan development around it (particularly infrastructure) and not deal with someone who know they can just squat on such land to sell for an inflated price.
Having an "expiration date" on the land is a surefire way to stop ever increasing property prices, getting a home with a shorter remaining lease period might be preferable for some who is not going to stay there permanently but long enough to want to own a home and having these options be a cheaper option is a very good thing. Such expiration date also means it is easier to modernize each property as needed, this will not be the death of historic buildings because the city/state still can make exceptions for them if needed.
Also how many of the US-ians are getting a house as their inheritance anyways? Oftentimes when a generation passes away post retirement, their house gets sold to some investment firm and becomes a rental.
How exactly is it better for land to be ownable by the populace, rather than the public? I understand that there's taxes, it's to combat home ownership as an investment vehicle.
I am 100% sure that even when westerners will be reduced to living in a pods, eating bugs, owning nothing and being happy (or else) there would still be massive number of homeless people to serve as warning for pod people to be happy (or else).
If they have to pay to renew the lease, that's is a kind of property tax, especially if an individual has to compete to buy their own lease. This may or may not be the case.
The news about the pilot is correct. Xi Jinping had been pushing for it for a long time and this is all he has been able to get so far. He is strongly against speculative growth of real estate.
AFAIK residents don't have to compete to renew the lease. We have seen the first batches of leases expiring in recent times and no one got evicted. What I understand is that, you can't sell your house after the lease expires, but you can continue living their indefinitely till the building crumbles. If the government decides to demolish and redevelop, then they give you a new house in the same place.
Human Rights Watch? Seriously? Do you look into your sources at all, or are you just happy to spread imperial apologia?
Wikipedia is a terrible source for current affairs.
Your attempts to smear the three gorges dam project are part of a tradition older than the Internet. Of course, the human rights watch was all over that propaganda.
The land under your house is owned by the Indigenous people you stole it from. So while you may “own” the structure, when Indigenous law is restored after the illegitimate occupation falls, you will be told to GTFO.
This isn't upsetting anyone, though. Communists understand that the home ownership in China isn't the same as it is in the west, our point is that that's a good thing and is part of why their housing rates are much higher.
Yes, really it's the worst of both worlds. In the western sense of the word, there aren't any homeowners in China. They have to pay the premium of ownership for the privilege of still having a landlord that can evict them or demand extra payment without any legal recourse for the tenant whatsoever.
Not even just left to the streets. Many cities are death marching the homeless around, arresting, terrorizing, and stealing personal property of the homeless every step of the way.
Their comment was removed but if they're referring to the tiny boxes I think they are (known as coffin homes), that's actually in Hong Kong which is notably still very capitalist.
lmfao a western-backed "freedom index" is not a substitution for media literacy, nor does it excuse you from providing literally any material evidence to support your argument.
Also, do you want to explain why Israel is ranked at 112; 50 places above Venezuela and Palestine; and why Saudi fuckin Arabia is right there between VZ and PA? Seems to me like this "freedom index" doesn't correlate very well with democracy or human rights, much less evidence-based journalism or state transparency.
china, being a dictatorship of the proletariat and having an actually-working participatory democratic process, has its press in the hands of the people. western countries, being dictatorships of the bourgeoisie, have their press in the hands of a few billionaires, and somehow according to shitlibs that makes it "free and fair" lmfao
Ah, the same Reporters Without Borders gaslighting the world about journalist deaths in Gaza?
You know how it's frustrating when far right reactionaries roll up in lib spaces on reddit spewing propaganda the sources of which they haven't investigated critically? That's you. You're doing that here. Please stop.
90 Comments
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 33 pts · 206d
whiskers165@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 206d
I'm paying 3x my states monthly minimum wage for hourly workers to own in a fairly modest 1100 sqft house in a semi walkable area in a major city.
Before here I used to pay my states monthly minimum wage for hourly workers to live in a fucking slum just outside the city. House was by an interstate so I got soot on anything I left outside, all the houses in the neighborhood were water damaged and molded to hell, the roads were so cracked it was fucking up cars, and everyone who lived there seemed miserable.
It's grind or die, I got so fucking sick living in alleged affordable housing. Nerve damage and all kinds of weird chronic health problems from living in such a toxic death trap for years. They don't call it the Dirty South for nothing, this place is completely fucked.
threeduck@aussie.zone · 8 pts · 206d
In two years I've paid $104,000 to my mortgage!
...why is it only $17,000 lower...
Venat0r@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 205d
interesting... 😅
aliceblossom@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 205d
The key phrase is "amortization schedule". It's bullshit and for collusory reasons no banks compete on it, they all use the same one.
Venat0r@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 205d
Minimum wage isn't enough to pay for a roof over your head... unless you mean the roof of a car...
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 205d
Venat0r@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 205d
living in cars is never "viable" it's just what some people do when thier only other alternative is living under a bridge...
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 204d
Venat0r@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 205d
Unhoused people living in cars aren't buying new cars, so it doesn't really matter what car manufacturers are doing today for them... and the maintenance costs are still way lower than paying rent
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 204d
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml · 20 pts · 206d
How britian almost solved the housing crisis
Or, you know, do what China is doing. You dont have to agree with someone to learn from them.
SupremeDonut@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 205d
That last sentence in particular
KindnessIsPunk@lemmy.ca · 20 pts · 206d
Doesn't China have an issue with 65 million of their homes sitting empty which belong to people with no intention to ever move in?
It's my understanding that owning a home in China is seen as social leverage so people buy homes that don't even benefit their lives.
This isn't too be a pessimist, I do think China's rising middle class is much better off than it has ever been. I just don't idealize their housing.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 43 pts · 206d
There was a problem with using housing as an investment vehicle, yes, though the state took action against that, destroying the "market" for balooning housing prices.
KindnessIsPunk@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 206d
How did they deflate the market? So it wasn't social pressure but rather economic pressure that led to it?
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 45 pts · 206d
"Houses are for living, not for speculation."
The state implemented strong controls on credit and to curb debt in the property sector. Strong positions against real estate investment.
fort_burp@feddit.nl · 13 pts · 205d
BUT AT WHAT COST?!
No seriously how much does it cost I need affordable housing??
AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 206d
Renting is when your landlord makes you pay an extra 25 dollars a month because you yelled at him one time over leaving cat shit in the shared bathroom all day
vfreire85@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 205d
Shared bathrooms, what a concept.
thorhop@sopuli.xyz · 13 pts · 205d
China is building a middle class, Americans are ripping it down.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 205d
China is building a working class-centered society. Class isn't really determined by wealth, but by relation to production and distribution, and this is why China's approach has consistently resulted in continuous improvements!
Lumidaub@feddit.org · 4 pts · 206d
eletes@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 205d
Reminder! China has 1,000,000,000 more people than the US. Not trying to be a China simp but fuck we need to fix the zoning and whatever else they got us in this mess if we can't even compete at this difference of population.
And I say this as someone who bought last July and would be kinda screwed if prices started going down
Emopunker@feddit.org · -1 pts · 200d
A lot of them got scammed out of their money with tofu dreg projects though.
davel@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 200d
You’re going through the back catalog just to make racist boomer comments in week-old posts?
OptimusPrimeDownfall@discuss.tchncs.de · -7 pts · 207d
Isn't the land underneath the house never owned by the person, always the state? So while they may "own" the structure, it's always in doubt of whether they will be able to lease the land again after the current lease expires.
Twongo@lemmy.ml · 50 pts · 207d
it's a lifetime lease and prevents the accumulation of generational wealth in real estate. not flawless but generally still miles better than what westerners have. (nothing)
OptimusPrimeDownfall@discuss.tchncs.de · -5 pts · 206d
It does? Do you have anything to back up that claim?
Twongo@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 206d
the fact that real estate is dirt cheap and therefore it's not a feasible way to become a leech (landlord) and live off rent because it'll not pay off
OptimusPrimeDownfall@discuss.tchncs.de · -10 pts · 206d
That's not backing it up, that's saying "nu uh" in an echo chamber.
Do better. Cause I actually want proof. Like, please, give me proof it's better.
causepix@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 206d
Uh if the 90% overall homeownership rate isn't "backing it up" I want to know how you define "better"
orc_princess@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 206d
eChO cHaMbEr
OptimusPrimeDownfall@discuss.tchncs.de · -4 pts · 205d
OK, do you have a source for the 90% home ownership rate?
causepix@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 205d
Why? Do you have evidence that suggests otherwise? Is there a particular reason you're so adamant that China's system must be worse than the commodified system we have in the west?
Credibly_Human@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 205d
You are sealioning right now. You're asking someone else to do a shit ton of work under the guise of "just asking questions" pretending to have healthy discourse.
A lot of this sites people suck and its filled with people justifying absurd things, but right here, you are asking a question so open ended its tantamount to asking for a thesis paper, and those would still be scrutinized.
bountygiver@lemmy.ml · 32 pts · 207d
And what's the problem with that?
This may be a hot take but I think there should not be forever private ancestral lands.
The city/state should periodically get the land back and resell it to cover the ever changing maintenance costs (heck you are paying this with the increasing property tax)
The city/state should have a relatively predictable timeline of when they can reliably gain control of a land back so they can plan development around it (particularly infrastructure) and not deal with someone who know they can just squat on such land to sell for an inflated price.
Having an "expiration date" on the land is a surefire way to stop ever increasing property prices, getting a home with a shorter remaining lease period might be preferable for some who is not going to stay there permanently but long enough to want to own a home and having these options be a cheaper option is a very good thing. Such expiration date also means it is easier to modernize each property as needed, this will not be the death of historic buildings because the city/state still can make exceptions for them if needed.
Also how many of the US-ians are getting a house as their inheritance anyways? Oftentimes when a generation passes away post retirement, their house gets sold to some investment firm and becomes a rental.
Cypher@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 206d
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 25 pts · 206d
The idea is to use land as a public resource, not something to be hoarded.
Cypher@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 206d
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 206d
How exactly is it better for land to be ownable by the populace, rather than the public? I understand that there's taxes, it's to combat home ownership as an investment vehicle.
PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 205d
I am 100% sure that even when westerners will be reduced to living in a pods, eating bugs, owning nothing and being happy (or else) there would still be massive number of homeless people to serve as warning for pod people to be happy (or else).
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 205d
Sadly I think you're right.
vritrahan@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 206d
There are no property taxes in China last I checked.
OptimusPrimeDownfall@discuss.tchncs.de · -4 pts · 206d
If they have to pay to renew the lease, that's is a kind of property tax, especially if an individual has to compete to buy their own lease. This may or may not be the case.
There are also ostensibly value-added taxes and land appreciation taxes but I'll admit those are not property taxes per se.
There is also this source that says that select cities such as Shanghai and Chongqing have pilot programs for property tax primarily targeted at high-value residential properties and secondary homes but they don't have any sources, so I have no clue if it's true.
vritrahan@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 205d
The news about the pilot is correct. Xi Jinping had been pushing for it for a long time and this is all he has been able to get so far. He is strongly against speculative growth of real estate.
AFAIK residents don't have to compete to renew the lease. We have seen the first batches of leases expiring in recent times and no one got evicted. What I understand is that, you can't sell your house after the lease expires, but you can continue living their indefinitely till the building crumbles. If the government decides to demolish and redevelop, then they give you a new house in the same place.
OptimusPrimeDownfall@discuss.tchncs.de · 0 pts · 205d
Awesome! Do you have another source for the pilot? I expect it's all in Mandarin and I am terrible at finding things in other languages.
vritrahan@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 205d
I don't have anything handy but I believe there's a wikipedia page which has references for this topic. I can't remember which one.
Cypher@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 206d
athatet@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 206d
Being a jackass is also not a meaningful contribution.
Cypher@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 205d
athatet@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 205d
Pointing out someone being rude does not make me rude.
DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml · 25 pts · 206d
Yeah the us would never force anyone off of land.
OptimusPrimeDownfall@discuss.tchncs.de · -8 pts · 206d
Every government does, that's no "gotcha".
The US did and does it.
China did it with 1.3 million people to build a dam.
Russia is doing it in Ukraine.
There's a genocide in Sudan.
Doesn't make it any of the instances right.
DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 206d
Human Rights Watch? Seriously? Do you look into your sources at all, or are you just happy to spread imperial apologia?
Wikipedia is a terrible source for current affairs.
Your attempts to smear the three gorges dam project are part of a tradition older than the Internet. Of course, the human rights watch was all over that propaganda.
JustJack23@slrpnk.net · 14 pts · 207d
What is owning the land anyways?
Goun@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 207d
How long is the lease for?
doomsdayrs@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 206d
70 year lease, renewable via application.
OptimusPrimeDownfall@discuss.tchncs.de · 6 pts · 206d
Typically 70 for residential and less for commercial/industrial use.
astutemural@midwest.social · 7 pts · 206d
Good.
HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 206d
The land under your house is owned by the Indigenous people you stole it from. So while you may “own” the structure, when Indigenous law is restored after the illegitimate occupation falls, you will be told to GTFO.
OptimusPrimeDownfall@discuss.tchncs.de · 0 pts · 206d
That's incorrect.
Indigenous people as a general idea did not believe that land could be owned by an individual due to viewing the Earth as one's relative, requiring respect and care, as are all the animals and plant life the land supports. Judeo-Christian religions, likely along with many other religions that I haven't studied from Eurasia and Africa, view land as being able to be subjugated like cattle or sheep.
This is unlikely to change until climate change and its disasters convince people that they need to actually take care of the earth.
GeneralEmergency@lemmy.world · -12 pts · 206d
Don't use facts. It upsets the edgelords
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 25 pts · 206d
This isn't upsetting anyone, though. Communists understand that the home ownership in China isn't the same as it is in the west, our point is that that's a good thing and is part of why their housing rates are much higher.
Iceblade02@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 205d
Yes, really it's the worst of both worlds. In the western sense of the word, there aren't any homeowners in China. They have to pay the premium of ownership for the privilege of still having a landlord that can evict them or demand extra payment without any legal recourse for the tenant whatsoever.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 205d
China killed tons of landlords, now the people own the land. This is just cope.
Iceblade02@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 205d
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 205d
Yes, the people own the land, China is socialist. Not sure what your racist non-sequitor is supposed to be doing here.
Iceblade02@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 204d
GreenBeanMachine@lemmy.world · -11 pts · 206d
bryophile@lemmy.zip · 25 pts · 206d
Not that it is true that they are just tiny boxes... But even if it were true. That's the difference between China and the US isn't it?
One provides at least a "box" for everyone.
One provides a big home with a yard with a white picket fence around it for some, but leaves others living in the streets.
Do you really prefer the last one? So many people in the US would be happy with a box at this point.
DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 206d
Not even just left to the streets. Many cities are death marching the homeless around, arresting, terrorizing, and stealing personal property of the homeless every step of the way.
https://projects.propublica.org/impact-of-homeless-sweeps-lost-belongings/
causepix@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 206d
Their comment was removed but if they're referring to the tiny boxes I think they are (known as coffin homes), that's actually in Hong Kong which is notably still very capitalist.
HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml · 21 pts · 206d
The freezing homeless people you pass every day in glorious freedomland would love one of those.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 206d
.world users acting like .world users
DSN9@lemmy.ml · -15 pts · 206d
Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml · 24 pts · 206d
orc_princess@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 206d
umbrella@lemmy.ml · 22 pts · 206d
causepix@lemmy.ml · 18 pts · 206d
lmfao a western-backed "freedom index" is not a substitution for media literacy, nor does it excuse you from providing literally any material evidence to support your argument.
Also, do you want to explain why Israel is ranked at 112; 50 places above Venezuela and Palestine; and why Saudi fuckin Arabia is right there between VZ and PA? Seems to me like this "freedom index" doesn't correlate very well with democracy or human rights, much less evidence-based journalism or state transparency.
catscape@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 206d
china, being a dictatorship of the proletariat and having an actually-working participatory democratic process, has its press in the hands of the people. western countries, being dictatorships of the bourgeoisie, have their press in the hands of a few billionaires, and somehow according to shitlibs that makes it "free and fair" lmfao
DeepSpace9mm@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 206d
Ah, the same Reporters Without Borders gaslighting the world about journalist deaths in Gaza?
You know how it's frustrating when far right reactionaries roll up in lib spaces on reddit spewing propaganda the sources of which they haven't investigated critically? That's you. You're doing that here. Please stop.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 206d
Amazing, capitalist press saying capitalist press is limited in China and that's "scary."
Midnight1938@reddthat.com · -16 pts · 206d
As nice as it sounds a ton of ppl are still on the streets on both sides
Even tho one has ghost cities
davel@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 206d
Neither has ghost cities, but one has ghost towns in the southwest and the rust belt.
Midnight1938@reddthat.com · -6 pts · 206d
Mb i meant towns
JustJack23@slrpnk.net · 13 pts · 206d
Where source?
Midnight1938@reddthat.com · -11 pts · 206d
Wikipedia and chinese news channels?
orc_princess@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 206d
Wikipedia, the bastion of objectivity on everything remotely political or controversial.
JustJack23@slrpnk.net · 11 pts · 206d
No URLs = didn't happen
Midnight1938@reddthat.com · -6 pts · 206d
american ghost towns
As for homelessness both sides will spout nonsense about it being fake while social sites like reddit and douyin show otherwise
Cowbee@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 206d
Not really, the PRC has incredibly low unhoused rates, and the fact that they build cities anticipating future demand is part of why that happens.