YSK you can poison your personal data to fight against surveillance capitalism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJf4SNuDnoI

Why do this? Because surveillance capitalism wants you to be less free. It wants you to be glued to the screen. It wants you to buy whatever advertisers want you to buy. But you can fight back by deliberately poisoning your data.

322 points · 71 comments · view on lemmy.world

71 Comments

pelespirit@sh.itjust.works · 92 pts · 173d (19 replies)

She's saying that when you use social media, only like, read, etc., stuff that you want to learn from or you like listening to. Scroll past the flight or flight stuff, that's the story they want for you. Your feed will quickly be a nice place to hang out and it will poison their data.

Data poisoning can go a lot further than this. There are fascinating (and hilarious) videos by people who poison their music with inaudible (to humans) noise which, when it’s stolen by an AI company and used to train a model, will cause the model to output unintelligible garbage. Images can also be manipulated this way so that the model sees a completely different image than the human. Then there are the Nepenthes traps for AI data trawlers which trap the trawlers in an inescapable web of nested webpages of nonsense. The future is bright.

paraphrand@lemmy.world · 60 pts · 173d

That’s not poison. Thats helping them profile you. 🤔

chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world · 46 pts · 173d (1 reply)

How does it poison their data to share your honest preferences with them? Doesn’t that give them the most accurate dossier possible so they can hit you with ads that micro-target your interests?

HubertManne@piefed.social · 20 pts · 173d

yeah this is not what poison means to me. to me poisoning is giving them false information when they ask you for it.

slemptastrophe@piefed.social · 18 pts · 173d (9 replies)

I'm an amateur photographer and I post my work online sometimes. How can I use this on my photo? Can you share any links to tools and tutorials? 

pelespirit@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 173d (3 replies)

I'm not sure if this is still working or not. They also mention glaze. https://nightshade.cs.uchicago.edu/whatis.html

Anarki_@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 173d (1 reply)

I'm pretty sure both glaze and Nightshade has been beaten by now :/

acockworkorange@mander.xyz · 6 pts · 173d

They apply Gaussian blur followed by edge enhancement to get rid of the poison, and it works, but it does leave them with ab poorer quality image. So, still better than nothing, but nowhere near as effective.

k0e3@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 173d

That's really cool, I gotta give it a try.

lolola@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 0 pts · 173d (4 replies)
[ removed ]
GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 173d (1 reply)

Bro is asking how to poison his work for ai himself to protect his creative work and help combating corpo ai.

What else could he possibly mean?

slemptastrophe@piefed.social · 4 pts · 173d

Yes. That is totally what I meant. Thanks for clarifying. 

tedd_deireadh@piefed.social · 4 pts · 173d (1 reply)

Probably referring to this section.

Images can also be manipulated this way so that the model sees a completely different image than the human.

modus@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 173d

This sounds like steganography.

yermaw@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 173d (2 replies)

an inescapable web of nested webpages of nonsense

Like the most annoying webpage from the old Internet?

https://web.archive.org/web/20030402051520/http://www.mostannoyingwebpage.com/v1/

SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 173d (1 reply)
acockworkorange@mander.xyz · 2 pts · 173d

Thank you so much

SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 173d

I've gotten a lot out of YouTube by leafing through the recommendations on videos that I liked and saving any promising ones to ‘watch later’ playlists by topic. I have a couple dozen of such playlists, each with multiple dozens of videos. Could live off these for a year at least.

Of course, as mentioned, this is the opposite of poisoning the data.

prex@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 173d

We used to call the email equivalent of a nepenthes trap a teergrube.

Zacryon@feddit.org · 2 pts · 173d

Nope. It just started another arms race.

CreepingAberration@lemmy.world · 66 pts · 173d (26 replies)

What's the tl;dr for people that don't want to navigate to YouTube?

bear@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 65 pts · 173d (4 replies)

Don't engage with algorithms, especially ones trying to sell things, like major corporate social media.

Pretend to be something you're not, especially vulnerable targeted populations. This lowers their ability easily target minorities.

faythofdragons@slrpnk.net · 14 pts · 173d

Pretend to be something you’re not

In my life, I was Noel Gruber who worked at Taco Bell in Uranium City, Saskatchewan. But in my dreams I played a different role. I was Monique Gibeau in post-war France! A hooker, with a heart of black charcoal.

Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 173d (1 reply)

So the fact that I occasionally get ads in Spanish, despite being a native English speaker in a mainly English-speaking country, means I'm doing something right?

bear@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 173d

I would say so. You can also intermittently make a new profile, and seed it initially with wildly different personal info and interests.

It is a good practice to restart independent accounts and not reuse them on multiple devices.

You can also silo types of information, like location, personal stats, email, browsing history, web searches, chat services, calls, etc.

slemptastrophe@piefed.social · 1 pts · 173d
[ removed ]
slemptastrophe@piefed.social · 13 pts · 173d (15 replies)

If you're on android, you can use an app like NewPipe to view YouTube content without actually going to YouTube. https://f-droid.org/packages/org.schabi.newpipe

On a browser, you can use an invidious instance like https://yewtu.be/. That also lets you view YouTube content ad free without signing in.

acockworkorange@mander.xyz · 5 pts · 173d

I read "if you're An android", and was very confused for a second.

e8CArkcAuLE@piefed.social · 3 pts · 173d (8 replies)

invidious instances never work for me, but with this one i could get further than ever, but when trying to play a video i get this error: “The media could not be loaded, either because the server or network failed or because the format is not supported.”

what could this be?

SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 173d (6 replies)

YouTube is actively blocking Invidious and other proxies and bots for the past couple years or so. Additionally, for some reason some Invidious instances consistently don't work for me, while other ones consistently do, which probably indicates connectivity issues between me and them.

Frankly, if YouTube works for you directly, I'm gonna advise using it via NewPipe and various desktop apps, as Invidious instances could be easily overwhelmed, what with them being hosted by individual volunteers. Video traffic is heavy.

e8CArkcAuLE@piefed.social · 1 pts · 173d (5 replies)

thank you object and slempt for your feedback. so investigating yewtu.be does work on desktop without any problems, but on my iphone it depends on which browser and dns blocker i use. can anyone recommend a good newpipe substitute for iOS?

SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 173d (4 replies)

Try looking through those listed on Alternative To. Not all of them are really YouTube players, though.

e8CArkcAuLE@piefed.social · 1 pts · 172d (3 replies)

sorry, i didn’t find the alternative list, can you send me a link please?

SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 172d

It's linked in my comment to which you replied. Scroll down on there.

slemptastrophe@piefed.social · 2 pts · 173d

I get that sometimes too. Here are some other instances to try if you haven't already:

https://invidious.nerdvpn.de/

https://inv.nadeko.net/feed/popular

This firefox extension will automatically redirect you to alternative frontends for a few different services:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/libredirect/

cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 173d (3 replies)

Pipepipe supersedes newpipe doesn't it? That's what I'm using anyhow.

JayGray91@piefed.social · 1 pts · 172d (1 reply)

Pipepipe is a hard fork of newpipe. I prefer it myself because of sponsorblock and the danmaku comments.

Those are niconicodouga style comments across the video.

Niconicodouga is a Japanese video sharing platform similar to YouTube in function and age. I think it's older even.

cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 172d

That's what that's called? I remember being so annoyed by that and forgetting how I solved it lol.

Ya from what I recall newpipe was broken for a good amount of time and someone forked to pipepipe and it seems updated more frequently.

slemptastrophe@piefed.social · 1 pts · 173d

Never heard of it. I'll check it out though!

quick_snail@feddit.nl · 2 pts · 173d

Doesn't work when using a vpn

ZiggyTheZygote@lemmy.ca · 10 pts · 173d (2 replies)

I second this. If you get a response can you please let me know?

snek_boi@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 173d (1 reply)

A response is in! :)

ZiggyTheZygote@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 173d

Thanks OP.

state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 173d

Best I can do is AI generated transcript: https://pastes.io/if-i-told-

acockworkorange@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 172d

But the video has boobies... /s

teawrecks@sopuli.xyz · 25 pts · 173d (9 replies)

I wonder if you could make a self-hostable data poisoning automation utility. Put in a bunch of credentials for various social media sites, and it creates unintelligible usage patterns associated with your online identities. Not so much for poisoning training of generative AI, but for destroying any internal profiles any party might attempt to build on you by correlating your online behaviour.

EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 172d (7 replies)

Sounds like that alternative to Ublock that I can't think of the name of right now that not only blocks ads but also gives a click-through input to every single one, poisoning any ad metrics for the ads as well as any targeted ad profiling on you.

bobbbu@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 17 pts · 172d (6 replies)
[ removed ]
EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 172d (2 replies)

That's the one, thanks.

JayGray91@piefed.social · 3 pts · 172d (1 reply)

It somehow works less well than ublock, especially like delayed ads or more dynamic ones. Never a problem block any kinds of ads with UBO.

EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 171d

I've never used it myself, I use UBO as well, but I've heard about it before and brought it up because it sounds like it does what the OP was talking about but for ads instead of social media.

MehBlah@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 172d (2 replies)

I ran this for a while. It generated some interesting ad choices for me.

bobbbu@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 172d (1 reply)
[ removed ]
MehBlah@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 172d

Random things I never saw on the page. Some of the ads I did see were foreign. It had a effect but it also at the time loaded the browser up enough I finally got rid of it.

SidewaysHighways@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 173d

janeway: "get on it"

wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 17 pts · 173d (4 replies)

"fight back against surveillance capitalism and malicious advertisers by watching this youtube video"

Get a load of this! Can't make this stuff up...

Hazor@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 172d (1 reply)

You gotta meet the people where they're at to get them informed. If this information was hidden away in some privacy/security-centered blog, a fraction as many people would see it.

wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 6 pts · 172d

I know, I was just pointing out the irony that youtube is one of the primary offenders of surveillance capitalism

snek_boi@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 172d (1 reply)

I agree with you! There's a layer of irony.

wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 172d

I wish the fediverse would get a wider user base, like loops and peertube. The more people use it, the more viable it will be as an alternative.

amio@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 173d (4 replies)

The irony in this being a youtube link though

renegadespork@lemmy.jelliefrontier.net · 25 pts · 173d (1 reply)

People using YouTube need this info more than people using PeerTube.

amio@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 173d

True, just thought it was funny.

Battle_Masker@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 172d

No one knows other video sharing sites exist

silverneedle@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 173d

It's ok though. Using MPV to watch YouTube is a good way to stick it to the man

EaterOfLentils@programming.dev · 13 pts · 173d (5 replies)

YouTube keeps showing me ads for surrogacy (as in, being a surrogate), which could not be more the opposite of what I want to do in life. Obviously they know I am a woman of childbearing age, but somewhere the algorithm got me very wrong. I just let the ads play though, to let them think the idea doesn't repulse me beyond anything I can imagine.

EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 172d (2 replies)

You guys are watching ads?

EaterOfLentils@programming.dev · 1 pts · 170d (1 reply)

I watch a lot of YouTube and I haven't gotten around to figuring out the ad blocker situation on my phone.

EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 170d

The easiest solution IMO is to download Firefox for your phone and use that instead of the YouTube app. I don't watch a lot on my phone, but that's what I did. Just install the Ublock extension like you would on a desktop and you're all set. Then you can also use that instead of Chrome and free of ads on the web at large as well.

The one unfortunate thing is that you can't uninstall the YouTube app, only disable it, and every time you go to the site it will ask you if you want to open the app instead.

HubertManne@piefed.social · 4 pts · 173d (1 reply)

yeah it kinda makes me happy when the ads are wrong and I sure don't want to correct my profile.

fishy@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 172d

Lol the algorithms are lost on me. I don't even do much to avoid it, I'm just weird as fuck!

aceshigh@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 172d (1 reply)

There’s no reason to over complicate this. Set boundaries with yourself. Set a budget, cut up your credit cards, try the envelope system, set limits to how much time you spend on social media.

snek_boi@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 171d

I agree that doing less can achieve certain goals.

I guess it depends on what your goal is.

If you want to avoid getting glued to the screen and being influenced by advertisements, your recommendations are spot on.

However, if you want to make it costlier for surveillance capitalism to entrance everyone, then other options might make more sense.