I do agree that superhero movies have been taking themselves entirely too seriously for entirely too long. Go back and watch the original Spider-Man or The Shadow and then jump forward to today. All the camp is dead now.
Pitting a modern, ultra-broody Batman against a Joker who genuinely just wants to engage in Silver Age shenanigans for no other reason than to piss Batman off (despite the fact that this Joker is established as a murderer already) would be super fun.
Bonus points if Batman could've avoided most of the events of the movie by taking himself slightly less seriously.
My position is that the Schumacher Batman films are better than any Batman film that's come out since, and it's because of a fundamental ideological question:
Nolan, Snyder, Reeves, all of these guys, have continually asked, "What would Batman look like in the real world?" And the answer has meant grittier, darker reboots all inspired by the same couple of Miller books. They need to constrain Batman to things that "make sense" and find ways to make him "seem realistic."
Schumacher, and Burton before him, asked the much more entertaining question: "What would the world need to look like to idolize a vigilante in a furry costume?" And that opens up so many more possibilities, so much more fun. The Riddler made elaborate pop-up clues rather than staging brutal crime scenes. Two-Face didn't mourn his almost-relationship with an assistant DA because he was too busy macking on a different girl for each face. Bane? Doesn't matter if I could understand him, because he doesn't have any lines anyway. He's still the evil lady's main henchman, but now he's actually monstrously big.
The '90s approach says yes to every wild idea the directors had, every silly gag from the comics or other TV that it wanted to steal, because it wasn't beholden to a sense of the real. It was okay to enjoy the silly superhero movie on its own terms.
Unfortunately, we're stuck in a world where each decade brings a grimmer, darker reboot of Batman.
I agree with you wrt Batman Returns and Batman Forever. Batman and Robin was just plain bad, though. It was a comedy that wasn't funny.
But yeah, Batman fundamentally can't exist in the real world. Other superheroes have an acknowledged break from reality that allows them to work ("It's like the real world except there's this alien who's physiology allows him to leap tall buildings in a single bound," "It's like the real world except a 1 in 10^1,000,000 radiation accident gave a kid spider-powers", etc.) but Batman doesn't have this. We're expected to believe that Batman became a superhero just because he really wanted to be one. The only way Batman makes sense is if the world he lives in is fundamentally off-kilter.
If you havent, watch the latest two thor movies, also all deadpool and guardians of the galaxy movies if you want a bit more camp in your hero films. Oh and Gunn's superman and suicide squad.
Yes to the idea, Fuck no for Sasha B Cohen. Zionists don't deserve work.
i think Harley did a great characterization of the joker. with him ending up in politics, winning, defeating batman, and becoming a beloved mayor. By leveraging his anti establishment with socialism.
I had never heard about his support for Israel so just did some reading and only found a few things from Oct 2023 after the Hamas attack. Although I think it's evil to support an apartheid state, I think there's a big difference between voicing support in October 2023 and supporting them now and in their genocide. I wonder what he thinks now
He had a segment where he posed as an IDF soldier and got Congress members to support and even promote 'kinderguardians,' real guns for toddlers to promote 'fighting terrorism'
I'll be honest. After the initial Hamas attack I also thought Israeli response was acceptable. I didn't know much of anything beyond Zionist propaganda. I learned the truth and now I can say with absolute certainty and conviction that Israel is an aggressor in more than just the Palestinian conflict(which is a genocide). It's hard to know you're in a propaganda bubble when the edge is on the other side of the world. But now that I know it's there, it's absolutely influencing my decisions in elections. I voted against an AIPAC candidate in the Democratic primary entirely because of their campaign funding sources.
Jack Nicholson was good no arguments here, in fact I found him terrifying. But Caesar Romero's and Mark Hamill's jokers seemed to do it for the love of the game, where as the rest all had some underlying reason. I personally feel that the core of jokers character is that he just lets the intrusive thoughts win without question or thought.
Mark Hamill playing an has-been joker released from the carceral system after serving many years.
After a few attempts at trying reintegration in a fascist Gottham city he turns into a Communist anti-hero.
fucking no. I can barely sometimes tolerate Borat, I do not need to see the joker saying "Jagshamesh! I go to Gotham City, where I will put my Khrum on batman's ... bat mobeel!" "O no batman, you hurt a my khrum!"
Not to mention how much of it is made up on the spot. Ali G IMO is especially impressive, you've gotta be pretty quick and smart to so consistently find those funny misunderstandings. I don't get how he can play that character and not constantly break character with laughter.
So you think that's what the author meant by attaching a screenshot from Borat? Not that it was just an example of one of his roles where he's wearing a suit?
Use your brain to think about it. If your brain is rotted, I am sorry.
Not that it was just an example of one of his roles where he’s wearing a suit?
Name the role that Sasha Baron Cohen acted in a suit that is better known than borat, which is the image he supplied.
EDIT : I'll do one better, Borat is the character that people associate the most with Sasha Baron Cohen, since it is not the 90s, and "Who is America?" didn't take off as well as his other work, and didn't have Dr. Nira Cain-N'Degeocello or Erran Morad become household names the same way Borat did.
What are you even talking about? Why would he speak and act like a completely different character simply because both characters wear suits? It makes zero sense.
Like I honestly don't even know what else to say. They're two very different characters with the only similarity being the fact that they wear suits. They wouldn't behave similarly in any way whatsoever.
Edit: for example, since you specifically mentioned it in your original comment... Why on earth would the Joker say anything in Kazakh?
59 Comments
otacon239@lemmy.world · 72 pts · 184d
I do agree that superhero movies have been taking themselves entirely too seriously for entirely too long. Go back and watch the original Spider-Man or The Shadow and then jump forward to today. All the camp is dead now.
Jesus_666@lemmy.world · 55 pts · 184d
Pitting a modern, ultra-broody Batman against a Joker who genuinely just wants to engage in Silver Age shenanigans for no other reason than to piss Batman off (despite the fact that this Joker is established as a murderer already) would be super fun.
Bonus points if Batman could've avoided most of the events of the movie by taking himself slightly less seriously.
tmyakal@infosec.pub · 39 pts · 184d
My position is that the Schumacher Batman films are better than any Batman film that's come out since, and it's because of a fundamental ideological question:
Nolan, Snyder, Reeves, all of these guys, have continually asked, "What would Batman look like in the real world?" And the answer has meant grittier, darker reboots all inspired by the same couple of Miller books. They need to constrain Batman to things that "make sense" and find ways to make him "seem realistic."
Schumacher, and Burton before him, asked the much more entertaining question: "What would the world need to look like to idolize a vigilante in a furry costume?" And that opens up so many more possibilities, so much more fun. The Riddler made elaborate pop-up clues rather than staging brutal crime scenes. Two-Face didn't mourn his almost-relationship with an assistant DA because he was too busy macking on a different girl for each face. Bane? Doesn't matter if I could understand him, because he doesn't have any lines anyway. He's still the evil lady's main henchman, but now he's actually monstrously big.
The '90s approach says yes to every wild idea the directors had, every silly gag from the comics or other TV that it wanted to steal, because it wasn't beholden to a sense of the real. It was okay to enjoy the silly superhero movie on its own terms.
Unfortunately, we're stuck in a world where each decade brings a grimmer, darker reboot of Batman.
otacon239@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 184d
Jim Carrey Riddler might be my favorite movie Batman villain.
toynbee@piefed.social · 2 pts · 184d
Kay apparently strongly disagrees.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 184d
I agree with you wrt Batman Returns and Batman Forever. Batman and Robin was just plain bad, though. It was a comedy that wasn't funny.
But yeah, Batman fundamentally can't exist in the real world. Other superheroes have an acknowledged break from reality that allows them to work ("It's like the real world except there's this alien who's physiology allows him to leap tall buildings in a single bound," "It's like the real world except a 1 in 10^1,000,000 radiation accident gave a kid spider-powers", etc.) but Batman doesn't have this. We're expected to believe that Batman became a superhero just because he really wanted to be one. The only way Batman makes sense is if the world he lives in is fundamentally off-kilter.
tomenzgg@midwest.social · 2 pts · 183d
https://youtube.com/watch?v=2uMLIs4vN84
panchzila@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 184d
If you havent, watch the latest two thor movies, also all deadpool and guardians of the galaxy movies if you want a bit more camp in your hero films. Oh and Gunn's superman and suicide squad.
Rekorse@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 184d
I'd caveat that deadpool relies heavily on popular media references. For some the jokes just dont land.
Klear@quokk.au · 5 pts · 184d
And Peacemaker. It's not quite camp, but definitely a show that doesn't take itself seriously.
ClownStatue@piefed.social · 3 pts · 184d
The title sequences in the first 2 seasons of Peacemaker alone are excellent TV! Such a fun show.
panchzila@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 159d
Yes! I had so much fun with the first season. Must sail the seas for the second one.
ThunderQueen@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 184d
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 49 pts · 185d
Yes to the idea, Fuck no for Sasha B Cohen. Zionists don't deserve work.
i think Harley did a great characterization of the joker. with him ending up in politics, winning, defeating batman, and becoming a beloved mayor. By leveraging his anti establishment with socialism.
workerONE@lemmy.world · 63 pts · 184d
I had never heard about his support for Israel so just did some reading and only found a few things from Oct 2023 after the Hamas attack. Although I think it's evil to support an apartheid state, I think there's a big difference between voicing support in October 2023 and supporting them now and in their genocide. I wonder what he thinks now
Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works · 20 pts · 184d
Yea, from what I’ve seen from his work, he is very critical on a lot of sensitive topics and doesn’t pull punches when it comes to his Jewish side.
But to be fair, he makes fun of Judaism, can’t recall many Israel jokes.
Keeponstalin@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 184d
He had a segment where he posed as an IDF soldier and got Congress members to support and even promote 'kinderguardians,' real guns for toddlers to promote 'fighting terrorism'
https://archive.is/UJwzn
But that's the closest I can think of
rosco385@lemmy.wtf · 1 pts · 184d
Maybe this scene from Bruno?
https://youtu.be/RVC6bmlzDIo
LincolnsDogFido@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 184d
I'll be honest. After the initial Hamas attack I also thought Israeli response was acceptable. I didn't know much of anything beyond Zionist propaganda. I learned the truth and now I can say with absolute certainty and conviction that Israel is an aggressor in more than just the Palestinian conflict(which is a genocide). It's hard to know you're in a propaganda bubble when the edge is on the other side of the world. But now that I know it's there, it's absolutely influencing my decisions in elections. I voted against an AIPAC candidate in the Democratic primary entirely because of their campaign funding sources.
Banana@sh.itjust.works · -2 pts · 184d
Voicing support for them related to Oct 2023 still points to some significant ignorance of the pre-existing war.
workerONE@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 184d
I agree
zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 184d
Oh fuck. I missed the Zionist part. I really liked his acting in multiple movies (like Hugo). Fucking Zionists everywhere.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 184d
Make sure he keeps the moustache. Just cover it with white makeup.
Lorindol@sopuli.xyz · 11 pts · 184d
This is the way
the_riviera_kid@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 184d
If you want unhinged terror Jack Nicholson is your Joker but personally if it's not Cesar Romero Or Mark Hamill then it's not the Joker to me.
ThunderQueen@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 184d
the_riviera_kid@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 184d
Jack Nicholson was good no arguments here, in fact I found him terrifying. But Caesar Romero's and Mark Hamill's jokers seemed to do it for the love of the game, where as the rest all had some underlying reason. I personally feel that the core of jokers character is that he just lets the intrusive thoughts win without question or thought.
ThunderQueen@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 184d
the_riviera_kid@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 184d
You know what? You've convinced me, Romero is still my favorite but I think I'll bump Nicholson up to number 2.
UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca · 18 pts · 184d
Mark Hamill playing an has-been joker released from the carceral system after serving many years. After a few attempts at trying reintegration in a fascist Gottham city he turns into a Communist anti-hero.
CPMSP@midwest.social · 6 pts · 184d
Subscribe
WatchfulConsole@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 183d
Bloomcole@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 184d
Mark Hamill is a POS zionist, and so is Baron-Cohen
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 184d
We need a live-action Batman Beyond movie with Mark Hamill playing an older Joker.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 184d
For years I wanted a live-action Batman Beyond starring Adam West as Bruce Wayne. Too late for that now, though.
caseyweederman@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 184d
Same but Serj Tankian
rustydrd@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 184d
Common mistake, but they're actually the same person, just two different stage names.
Pat_Riot@lemmy.today · 14 pts · 184d
He'd be a fucking fantastic Joker! I still like Jack best though.
elbiter@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 184d
Jack Nicholson's joker was so good the whole movie was about him. He made Batman a secondary character.
GeorgimusPrime@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 183d
His name actually appeared first in the cast.
oicasado@lemmy.eco.br · 13 pts · 185d
Yeah some Zionist bs I'm sure it is scary
Hawk@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 184d
His Mephisto role is pretty interesting, curious to see how that plays out.
FrowingFostek@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 184d
Am I crazy or do Sacha and Bad Bunny kinda look alike?
ickplant@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 184d
I can see it.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 184d
fucking no. I can barely sometimes tolerate Borat, I do not need to see the joker saying "Jagshamesh! I go to Gotham City, where I will put my Khrum on batman's ... bat mobeel!" "O no batman, you hurt a my khrum!"
FrowingFostek@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 184d
If you don't want it stop selling me on the idea.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 184d
just because I hate an idea doesn't mean I can't revel in showing how stupid it is
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 27 pts · 184d
Why would you think he'd play the same character as Borat? The dude can legit act
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 184d
Not to mention how much of it is made up on the spot. Ali G IMO is especially impressive, you've gotta be pretty quick and smart to so consistently find those funny misunderstandings. I don't get how he can play that character and not constantly break character with laughter.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 184d
Yeah that show was amazing. His more recent Showtime show was good too.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 4 pts · 184d
Because Ali G, Bruno, and Jean Girad don't wear purple suits 🤷♂️
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 184d
because it's asking to change only the colour suit Borat is wearing, not "let's get a Shakesperan British Actor on the case"
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 184d
How is the Joker just Borat in a different color suit? What a strange take lol
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 184d
use your eyes to look at the image in the OP. If you are blind, I am sorry.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 184d
So you think that's what the author meant by attaching a screenshot from Borat? Not that it was just an example of one of his roles where he's wearing a suit?
Use your brain to think about it. If your brain is rotted, I am sorry.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 184d
Name the role that Sasha Baron Cohen acted in a suit that is better known than borat, which is the image he supplied.
EDIT : I'll do one better, Borat is the character that people associate the most with Sasha Baron Cohen, since it is not the 90s, and "Who is America?" didn't take off as well as his other work, and didn't have Dr. Nira Cain-N'Degeocello or Erran Morad become household names the same way Borat did.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 184d
What are you even talking about? Why would he speak and act like a completely different character simply because both characters wear suits? It makes zero sense.
Like I honestly don't even know what else to say. They're two very different characters with the only similarity being the fact that they wear suits. They wouldn't behave similarly in any way whatsoever.
Edit: for example, since you specifically mentioned it in your original comment... Why on earth would the Joker say anything in Kazakh?
ieatpwns@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 184d
Sounds amazing to me. Better than leto
netvor@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 144d
idgaf about superhero movies normally but imho the next Joker should be orange
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@piefed.social · -4 pts · 184d
So you want a Joker bombing kids? Ugh... no thanks.
tacosanonymous@mander.xyz · 5 pts · 184d
Netanyahu as Joker?!
100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it · 1 pts · 184d
tacosanonymous@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 184d
I can’t believe the Joker got political…