No, they would turn into a normal bird. The extra mass is shunted into z-space where afterwards it can be called back to return the shifter to their previous form. Just don't stay a bird for more than two hours.
And you missed the part about conserving mass. A bird that can fly, with the mass of a human, would be much bigger than a human (cause birds have very thin, hollow bones).
But for a bird with a human's mass to be able to fly, it would have to be huge. Much larger than an ostrich.
Birds have hollow bones so their mass in comparison to their size is very little.
thats... the whole point of the post. a bird with a humans mass would be huge. maybe you should have left your shitty assumptions in your ass. no offence.
When I was a kid I had a book called The Science of the X-Men (which that site lists for $11 but eBay lists for anywhere from $100-1500) that attempted to use real world physics to explain how the powers of the X-Men might work.
Mostly the explanations came down to "I dunno, maybe black holes?" For example, it speculated that Jean Grey might have a microscopic black hole in her brain and had subconsciously learned to use it to open the other end in other brains and somehow vibrate the brain matter in a way to communicate telepathically.
Anyway, I don't recall whether it covered any shapeshifters, but if so, it probably handled it the same way Animorphs did (as others have mentioned in this thread), but with black holes instead of z-space.
those are still estimated to have a mass topping out around 40 pounds, so a bird with the mass of a human would probably be more than twice the size of that one, at least.
I mean.....I'm not an ostrich expert, but isn't that already roughly their wingspan? Fuckers can grow to like 9 feet tall, I suspect their wings fully extended would be pretty wide.
Preserving a mass while maintaining the ability to fly would require you to significantly increase in size, which comes with all sorts of drawbacks.
Humans can't fly precisely because we're too dense. Birds and other flying creatures have plenty of adaptations meant to reduce mass (or, rather, density) by all means possible.
Are you also preserving the ratios of materials that the body is made of? We'd have very heavy bones for a bird (or a lot of bones at bird density) and probably not enough muscle to lift 2m long wings. Also all the keratin in our hair and nails wouldn't make many feathers. We'd be a mostly plucked bird
you would need to turn into something like a Pterosaur given the hollow bones and everything. Those could be anywhere half the mass of a person to like twice the mass or something.
Yup they'd be a little baby elephant, unless they happen to be one of the heaviest humans alive, in which case they'd be a slightly older baby elephant lol.
Biggest by mass, but a bird with the mass of a human cant fly (biomechanically impossible), so there needs to be magic fuckery involved.
Meaning that a shapeshifter that turns in a flying bird with the same mass as a human would likely not be as large as you think. Humans are very dense compared to birds. Assuming we keep that density, we could be smaller than some of the larger eagles or carrion birds.
The largest flying animal to ever live, as far as we know, was the Quetzalcoatlus, which is estimated to have a mass up to over 400 pounds. Thats more mass than 99% of all humans, flatly disproving your claim. Just because theres no living bird with that mass doesn't in any way mean its biologically impossible.
Why would you assume it would have the same density as a human? This is an arbitrary restriction you're adding to the scenario. Conservation of mass doesn't require conservation of volume.
I love the quetzalcoatlus, it's one of my favorite summons in D&D. 80ft fly speed, flyby, 10ft reach, 22 (6d6+2) damage with a flying charge, and only CR 2. 🤌
The largest flying animal to ever live, as far as we know, was the Quetzalcoatlus, which is estimated to have a mass up to over 400 pounds. Thats more mass than 99% of all humans, flatly disproving your claim.
If you assume that we can change density then its possible sure.
Just because theres no living bird with that mass doesn’t in any way mean its biologically impossible.
If you just reshaped a person into a bird shape, its biomechanically impossible for them to fly.
Why would you assume it would have the same density as a human?
Because otherwise you arent turning a person into a bird, you are just making a bird (or other flying mammal) with the same approximate mass as a human.
This is an arbitrary restriction you’re adding to the scenario.
Seems implied to me
Conservation of mass doesn’t require conservation of volume.
So the original post would just be "a flying bird with the same mass as a human would be a huge bird"
58 Comments
WoodScientist@lemmy.world · 34 pts · 107d
No, they would turn into a normal bird. The extra mass is shunted into z-space where afterwards it can be called back to return the shifter to their previous form. Just don't stay a bird for more than two hours.
rockerface@lemmy.cafe · 20 pts · 107d
The real issue is remembering you're not a bird once you have a bird brain
zelahdieliekeis@piefed.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 107d
Very Inkspell/Inkdeath.
WoodScientist@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 107d
That's easy enough. But for the love of god, don't morph into colony insects like ants or bees!
rockerface@lemmy.cafe · 2 pts · 106d
NOT THE BEEEES
Haquer@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 107d
Animorphs was literally my first thought as well
Griffus@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 107d
Oh, Tobias.
rants_unnecessarily@piefed.social · 1 pts · 103d
Did he ever manage to turn back in later books? It really stuck with me.
Griffus@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 102d
I only read the first 34, and he got the power to morph again, but not his human form. I learned how it all ended and stopped reading in anger.
rants_unnecessarily@piefed.social · 2 pts · 102d
Thanks. That's so sad.
becausechemistry@piefed.social · 3 pts · 107d
Aww, yeah.
unmagical@lemmy.ml · 23 pts · 108d
That is a weird way of saying "Humans are bigger than birds," even then though, I think on average the ostrich will win.
Edit: I missed the flying part, but still.
mech@feddit.org · 11 pts · 108d
And you missed the part about conserving mass. A bird that can fly, with the mass of a human, would be much bigger than a human (cause birds have very thin, hollow bones).
unmagical@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 108d
You seem to be describing density (d = m/v). Preserving mass doesn't really mean anything in this context without a discussion of volume.
applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 107d
why would you assume density would be conserved? all I said was mass so the density would absolutely be variable.
unmagical@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 107d
I didn't. I pointed out that the person I replied was not describing mass.
TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.ca · 10 pts · 108d
By quite a lot too. The kori bustard is the heaviest known flying animal at around 18kg or 40lbs.
Zoomboingding@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 107d
Marahute!
sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 107d
CAW bitchhhh
Psionicsickness@reddthat.com · 0 pts · 107d
You just cast ritual?
daannii@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 107d
You ever seen an ostrich?
Bro they are bigger than humans.
titanicx@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 107d
Emu as well
AmidFuror@fedia.io · 9 pts · 107d
Has either of you seen a flying ostrich or emu?
Noodle07@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 107d
What if you use a trébuchet ?
orenj@leminal.space · 4 pts · 107d
Please dont introduce emus to siege weapons, they're already a significant military threat without them
daannii@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 107d
Yeah I definitely missed that part. Also pretty sure they can glide. ? Does that count. ?
AmidFuror@fedia.io · 1 pts · 107d
Have you seen their wings? They're not going to be gliding either.
rants_unnecessarily@piefed.social · 1 pts · 103d
But for a bird with a human's mass to be able to fly, it would have to be huge. Much larger than an ostrich.
Birds have hollow bones so their mass in comparison to their size is very little.
daannii@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 102d
True true
Overkrill@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 108d
not as large as big bird
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 108d
Just because mass is conserved doesn't mean size/shape is conserved. If you're always human-sized, you're a pretty shitty shapeshifter. No offense.
applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 108d
thats... the whole point of the post. a bird with a humans mass would be huge. maybe you should have left your shitty assumptions in your ass. no offence.
toynbee@piefed.social · 3 pts · 107d
When I was a kid I had a book called The Science of the X-Men (which that site lists for $11 but eBay lists for anywhere from $100-1500) that attempted to use real world physics to explain how the powers of the X-Men might work.
Mostly the explanations came down to "I dunno, maybe black holes?" For example, it speculated that Jean Grey might have a microscopic black hole in her brain and had subconsciously learned to use it to open the other end in other brains and somehow vibrate the brain matter in a way to communicate telepathically.
Anyway, I don't recall whether it covered any shapeshifters, but if so, it probably handled it the same way Animorphs did (as others have mentioned in this thread), but with black holes instead of z-space.
PiraHxCx@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 108d
imagine a human-sized flying bird, that would be terrifying
spittingimage@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 107d
They were.
applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 107d
those are still estimated to have a mass topping out around 40 pounds, so a bird with the mass of a human would probably be more than twice the size of that one, at least.
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 108d
I mean, it would just be an ostrich, with the ability to fly.
PiraHxCx@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 107d
and the wingspan the size of a car to lift that weight
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 107d
I mean.....I'm not an ostrich expert, but isn't that already roughly their wingspan? Fuckers can grow to like 9 feet tall, I suspect their wings fully extended would be pretty wide.
Munkisquisher@lemmy.nz · 2 pts · 107d
Albatross already have the wingspan of a car, an 80kg human would need a lot more.
Allero@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 106d
Preserving a mass while maintaining the ability to fly would require you to significantly increase in size, which comes with all sorts of drawbacks.
Humans can't fly precisely because we're too dense. Birds and other flying creatures have plenty of adaptations meant to reduce mass (or, rather, density) by all means possible.
rants_unnecessarily@piefed.social · 1 pts · 103d
If we're so dense how did we invent planes!?
Allero@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 103d
Putting something small and dense into something big and not dense helps
Even dense brains know that. Ooga booga fly!
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 106d
if a fan was stuck in my ass I'd be a windmill.
mbp@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 106d
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 106d
sounds like you might have a good idea.
Munkisquisher@lemmy.nz · 2 pts · 107d
Are you also preserving the ratios of materials that the body is made of? We'd have very heavy bones for a bird (or a lot of bones at bird density) and probably not enough muscle to lift 2m long wings. Also all the keratin in our hair and nails wouldn't make many feathers. We'd be a mostly plucked bird
HubertManne@piefed.social · 2 pts · 107d
you would need to turn into something like a Pterosaur given the hollow bones and everything. Those could be anywhere half the mass of a person to like twice the mass or something.
mriormro@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 107d
And if my mom had wheels she’d be a bicycle.
rants_unnecessarily@piefed.social · 1 pts · 103d
The village bicycle?
smuuthbrane@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 108d
So if they turned into an elephant they'd be the cutest widdle elephant ever??
applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 104d
Yup they'd be a little baby elephant, unless they happen to be one of the heaviest humans alive, in which case they'd be a slightly older baby elephant lol.
dreksob@feddit.online · 0 pts · 107d
Biggest by mass, but a bird with the mass of a human cant fly (biomechanically impossible), so there needs to be magic fuckery involved.
Meaning that a shapeshifter that turns in a flying bird with the same mass as a human would likely not be as large as you think. Humans are very dense compared to birds. Assuming we keep that density, we could be smaller than some of the larger eagles or carrion birds.
applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 107d
The largest flying animal to ever live, as far as we know, was the Quetzalcoatlus, which is estimated to have a mass up to over 400 pounds. Thats more mass than 99% of all humans, flatly disproving your claim. Just because theres no living bird with that mass doesn't in any way mean its biologically impossible.
Why would you assume it would have the same density as a human? This is an arbitrary restriction you're adding to the scenario. Conservation of mass doesn't require conservation of volume.
cravl@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 107d
I love the quetzalcoatlus, it's one of my favorite summons in D&D. 80ft fly speed, flyby, 10ft reach, 22 (6d6+2) damage with a flying charge, and only CR 2. 🤌
dreksob@feddit.online · -1 pts · 107d
If you assume that we can change density then its possible sure.
If you just reshaped a person into a bird shape, its biomechanically impossible for them to fly.
Because otherwise you arent turning a person into a bird, you are just making a bird (or other flying mammal) with the same approximate mass as a human.
Seems implied to me
So the original post would just be "a flying bird with the same mass as a human would be a huge bird"
Which...sure
applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 107d
dig in those heals, double down on the argument you pulled out of your ass. you're part of what sucks about the internet.
dreksob@feddit.online · 1 pts · 107d
UH huh