For added context, a major user of Signal is the CAF. They're literally required to have it on their phones, it's a primary method of distributing critical information. Signal leaving Canada would be a very big deal.
That makes it even funnier that they want a backdoor added to it... Don't they realize that a government mandated backdoor is still a backdoor anyone can use?
Yeah, this is exactly Signal's objection; it makes the product inherently less secure. That's a really bad idea under any circumstances, but doubly so for a product that is used for secure government communication.
Kinda sad how our armed forced are that dependent on US tech. Like yeah it's E2EE, but it gives the US the ability to brick our communications if they really want to.
Surely the CAF has the resources to spin up their own secure xmpp service or something.
Do they have the resources? Sure. But that would be fiscally irresponsible. Why would they try to replicate proven tech that works well and offers everything they need? Signal is available, accessible, and easy to use.
I also should clarify that when I say it's a primary method, that does mean one of many. We have fallbacks. Losing access to Signal wouldn't cripple us, but it would be an incredibly stupid self-inflicted injury. Having easy and accessible means of secure communications is important because it prevents people from resorting to insecure means. People are lazy and the best security is always the security that people least mind using. That's why Signal matters. Not because wec somehow wouldn't be able to hold secure communications without it. I apologize if my previous comment was misleading on this.
This also strikes me as being bad for businesses, such as Canadian cloud providers and email companies - I have to imagine that a number of people will start looking elsewhere if this passes.
This stuff infuriates me beyond belief. The people writing these laws are either to old and dumb to see the similarities between older tech, or purposely grabbing for more power over the populace.
Imagine if physical mail needed to be sent opened. The post office would then need to scan and keep a picture of your envelops contents for a year for any national security reasons.
Get fucked five eyes. PQC, best metadata countermeasures available for chat, it's had a couple audits by trail of bits now. Works with tor onions only or i2p if you're so inclined. Join us lemmings. Check out the white papers and code if you're into that kind of thing
Never had stability issues. It doesn't do asynchronous messaging without the mailbox app though. IIRC, it also doesn't have an iOS app due to apple's insistence that no apps run in the background
Can run entirely with tor onions or clearnet. Has no intention of compliance with any country's bullshit laws. PQC and fairly stable now. The main downside is it's heavy for large groups and latency can be higher.
26 Comments
nik282000@lemmy.ca · 76 pts · 117d
Good, not for us, but good that Signal is not backing down to the clowns who run this maple scented circus.
Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works · 58 pts · 117d
For added context, a major user of Signal is the CAF. They're literally required to have it on their phones, it's a primary method of distributing critical information. Signal leaving Canada would be a very big deal.
nik282000@lemmy.ca · 25 pts · 116d
Good, maybe it will highlight the myopic decision making of Canada's leaders.
Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works · 24 pts · 116d
Maybe before it comes to that we can contact our reps and tell them to put a stop to this stupidity.
redsand@infosec.pub · 8 pts · 116d
Call them out on wanting to be the 51st state. This bullshit is about sigint that the US wants to run through "AI"(grok)
ITGuyLevi@programming.dev · 15 pts · 116d
That makes it even funnier that they want a backdoor added to it... Don't they realize that a government mandated backdoor is still a backdoor anyone can use?
Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 116d
Yeah, this is exactly Signal's objection; it makes the product inherently less secure. That's a really bad idea under any circumstances, but doubly so for a product that is used for secure government communication.
yardy_sardley@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 116d
Kinda sad how our armed forced are that dependent on US tech. Like yeah it's E2EE, but it gives the US the ability to brick our communications if they really want to.
Surely the CAF has the resources to spin up their own secure xmpp service or something.
Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 116d
Do they have the resources? Sure. But that would be fiscally irresponsible. Why would they try to replicate proven tech that works well and offers everything they need? Signal is available, accessible, and easy to use.
I also should clarify that when I say it's a primary method, that does mean one of many. We have fallbacks. Losing access to Signal wouldn't cripple us, but it would be an incredibly stupid self-inflicted injury. Having easy and accessible means of secure communications is important because it prevents people from resorting to insecure means. People are lazy and the best security is always the security that people least mind using. That's why Signal matters. Not because wec somehow wouldn't be able to hold secure communications without it. I apologize if my previous comment was misleading on this.
patatas@sh.itjust.works · 45 pts · 117d
This also strikes me as being bad for businesses, such as Canadian cloud providers and email companies - I have to imagine that a number of people will start looking elsewhere if this passes.
youcantreadthis@quokk.au · 5 pts · 116d
Why would anyone care would increase power asymmetry better than money could
adespoton@lemmy.ca · 39 pts · 117d
And this is why we can’t have nice things.
NarrativeBear@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 116d
This stuff infuriates me beyond belief. The people writing these laws are either to old and dumb to see the similarities between older tech, or purposely grabbing for more power over the populace.
Imagine if physical mail needed to be sent opened. The post office would then need to scan and keep a picture of your envelops contents for a year for any national security reasons.
redsand@infosec.pub · 18 pts · 116d
https://simplex.chat/downloads
Get fucked five eyes. PQC, best metadata countermeasures available for chat, it's had a couple audits by trail of bits now. Works with tor onions only or i2p if you're so inclined. Join us lemmings. Check out the white papers and code if you're into that kind of thing
snoons@lemmy.ca · 16 pts · 117d
Mirror:
https://archive.ph/laiKz
leraje@piefed.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 116d
Thanks.
RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 117d
I've been expecting this. My plan is to switch to Briar which has no servers to take down or block.
menas@lemmy.wtf · 9 pts · 116d
Is Briar stable now ? We've never able to make it run properly
RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 116d
I didn't know Briat had a bad rep for stability.
I've tested it with a tablet and phone at home.
I'll have to get my sister involved to see it works at a greater distance.
sulfidedisburseangledafternoontipper@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 107d
Never had stability issues. It doesn't do asynchronous messaging without the mailbox app though. IIRC, it also doesn't have an iOS app due to apple's insistence that no apps run in the background
redsand@infosec.pub · 6 pts · 116d
https://simplex.chat/Downloads
Can run entirely with tor onions or clearnet. Has no intention of compliance with any country's bullshit laws. PQC and fairly stable now. The main downside is it's heavy for large groups and latency can be higher.
bilb@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 116d
Headsup, that uppercase D is causing that link to 404
RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 113d
Turns out Briar is a battery hog. I may have to try Simplex. Wait and see if C-22 passes.
redsand@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 113d
Simplex is too if you don't have it set to periodic. You're sending to everyone in every group individually and it needs more optimization on mobile.
I opt for a mix of signal/molly, irc and simplex.
RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 113d
Thanks for the tip.
Signal/Molly will not be an option if C-22 passes.
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 107d
redsand@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 113d
For low latency and not super high security there are the discord alternatives like jabber, matrix, flux and stoat. Also meshtastic and friends