Spain generally is a lot better on the rights of Palestinians than any other European countries except maybe Ireland (but Ireland still allows the US to use their bases for refueling)
Having said that. Cops everywhere are soulless thugs, the lowest scum on earth. ACAB.
Generally eu are pretty decent on this but states/countries need to consider how they use force. Esp in the light of how radical groups will galvinise this. Radical should be used in the correct sense, not in the way that we have all be conditioned to align it with extreme terrorism.
At this point it goes against the messaging these states have been parroting the last 20 years. Be a good citizen and report/oust those activist groups. Nothing turns you against the state than a state that beats or starves you.
No, they’re trying to frame Spain as hypocritical and push the narrative that it’s not only them abusing the flotilla activists which lessens the seriousness of what Israel did.
They're trying to imply that the flotilla activists cause trouble wherever they go and that beating them is almost unavoidable, just to get them to comply with their orders.
There's just a couple of differences that Israel left out.
The Spanish police didn't invade international waters and kidnap the flotilla activists to beat them.
The flotilla activists complied with the Israel army, as soon as the army illegally invaded their ships and pointed their guns at them.
The Spanish police haven't been accused of raping any of them (that I have heard).
Tu quoque, literally "you, too", is a rhetorical technique that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by attacking the opponent's own personal behaviour and actions as being inconsistent with their argument, so that the opponent appears hypocritical. This specious reasoning is a special type of ad hominem attack.
ACAB, and I can't believe I'm defending Spain, whose police would almost certainly have done the same, but it seems to be the ertzaintza, the Basque police, so if anyone they're supposed to represent Euskadi, not Spain.
ACAB, but I'd have expected it to be the guardia civil (for some cops are more bastards than others), but looks like it was the ertzaintza, the Basque police.
Which means that Israel has even less of an argument, since it's not either of the two main Spanish police forces, and they're not directly under the Spanish government's jurisdiction.
Where are the idiots praising the spanish government for "standing against usa" by not allowing them to use the military base they have been running in spain for 50 years? How many times do you have to get fooled to understand that they are not your friends?
Here! I'm here! Doing good things gets you praise, doing bad things gets you boos.
If a doctor operates on someone and saves their life: yay! Good job doctor! If the same doctor then prescribes opioids to drug dealers: boo, no! Bad doctor!
Maybe you missed this class in kindergarten, but the morality of an action is not determined by its actor, but is inherent to the action.
If trump or netanyahu tomorrow decide to leave gaza do you praise them for doing the good thing even after they murdered thousand of children?
Praising hitler for the good things he did was literally the nazi proganda, it worked as a cover up for all the bad things and persuaded people to believe that he was good.
They were blocking a gate, disrupting other travelers while repeatedly ignoring police orders to move. They staged a scene at an airport, in a country still healing from the scars of ETA terrorism. Who thinks that’s a smart move? What’s the point?
If you ask me, their best-case scenario was probably to provoke a police response, let the images of the confrontation go viral, and grab some attention. Well, the police delivered exactly what they seemed to want.
If you ask me, their best-case scenario was probably to provoke a police response
The flotilla main goal is to bring humanitarian aid to gaza, they are provoking israel by doing it and they are aware of it. This doesn't sound bad to me because they are bringing attention to israel goverment being an authoritarian regime who torture activists and prisoners.
If a small provocation such as peacefully blocking a gate while protesting a genocide trigger the police to beat up people and arrest them, it sounds a good provocation to me because it get to remember people the reality of the world we live in and what happen the moment you refuse to obey the government.
You’re right. But they also gave Israel the perfect opportunity to make the Spanish government look bad, one of the few countries openly opposing Israel and the U.S. for their illegal wars.
The Spanish National police are police, and are the arm of the states monopoly on violence concept. They have been gradually becoming a highly professional and civilized police force, since the days of the dictatorship 50 yrs ago. There are of course many power thirsty assholes that get in, but on the whole they are fairly correct and professional, to the point that when a thing like this happens, it makes international news. Critical thinking , people.
I don't mind protests at all, it's completely your right. Assuming you're in a country that supports it, ie China your ass is black bagged. But when you impeed and block people, yeah you need to be arrested. Standing in roads, blocking hospitals, ect.
The thing about protesting is that if you feel that you need to cause a disruption in order to get your point across then you kind of already exhausted all the other options. To claim that protesters have to stay out of the way is just plain stupid, and fundamentally misunderstands what a protest is, and why it comes about.
As long as your protest doesn't inconvenience anyone it's fine.
Which is literally the justification for stopping all protests "under rule of law". But people like the you can't see beyond the sole of the boot you're licking.
For example, Rosa parks rode the bus in the white section. It inconvenienced the white people who didn't like it. Under your logic she should be arrested. Which is what happened.
Protests need to cost money and inconvenience people or they have no power.
Blocking roads and impeding people IS protesting, just voicing your opinion without any collective action is a political rally. Protesters pretty much 100% of the time let emergency services like ambulances still pass through. If someone is blocking a hospital they are a wrecker trying to discredit the protest.
51 Comments
itsjustachairmary@lemmy.world · 61 pts · 102d
Spain generally is a lot better on the rights of Palestinians than any other European countries except maybe Ireland (but Ireland still allows the US to use their bases for refueling)
Having said that. Cops everywhere are soulless thugs, the lowest scum on earth. ACAB.
Yliaster@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 102d
Cops are an instrument of state violence so it's generally reflective of the state if left unchecked (which it usually is).
Cherry@piefed.social · 8 pts · 102d
Generally eu are pretty decent on this but states/countries need to consider how they use force. Esp in the light of how radical groups will galvinise this. Radical should be used in the correct sense, not in the way that we have all be conditioned to align it with extreme terrorism.
At this point it goes against the messaging these states have been parroting the last 20 years. Be a good citizen and report/oust those activist groups. Nothing turns you against the state than a state that beats or starves you.
itsjustachairmary@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 101d
Having been beaten by EU cops, our cops are little better than any other's. Slightly less corrupt I guess.
in4apenny@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 102d
It's also pretty reflective of the person who decides to become a cop.
daannii@lemmy.world · 43 pts · 102d
Israel demands justice for Gaza supporters ?
That doesn't sound right.
markko@lemmy.world · 45 pts · 102d
It's the Jerusalem Post. It shouldn't even be allowed here
Eyekaytee@aussie.zone · -27 pts · 102d
why are you guys so quick to censor and ban?
Akh@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 102d
We dont support propaganda and whataboutism. Israeli government officials raped Europeans
gtrcoi@programming.dev · 1 pts · 102d
That's hilarious. "We don't support propaganda and whataboutism, also check out this completely irrelevant claim about my ops" you couldn't write it.
Quokka@quokk.au · 41 pts · 102d
No, they’re trying to frame Spain as hypocritical and push the narrative that it’s not only them abusing the flotilla activists which lessens the seriousness of what Israel did.
saltesc@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 102d
And they have beef with Spain since Spain has been possibly the most critical and outspoken against Israel in regard to Palestine.
zenzanzoo@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 102d
Kudos for showing the true mechanisms of the Israel manipulations.
daannii@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 102d
Okay now that makes sense
Babalugats@feddit.uk · 15 pts · 102d
They're trying to imply that the flotilla activists cause trouble wherever they go and that beating them is almost unavoidable, just to get them to comply with their orders.
There's just a couple of differences that Israel left out.
Eyekaytee@aussie.zone · 9 pts · 102d
if you read the article it was basically a tu quoque
they are saying you accuse us of treating the activists badly and then go around and beat them
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/SiaYlwlvhKg?ra=m
then israel followed up by saying yeah they’re annoying now you have to deal with them
maccentric@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 102d
Tu quoque, literally "you, too", is a rhetorical technique that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by attacking the opponent's own personal behaviour and actions as being inconsistent with their argument, so that the opponent appears hypocritical. This specious reasoning is a special type of ad hominem attack.
From Wikipedia
charade_you_are@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 102d
yup /thread
king_comrade@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 102d
Acab... Have we learnt nothing? Be they white or black, male or female, old or young, foreign or local, cops are ALWAYS the bad guys.
khaleer@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 101d
I know this is rhetorical, but yeah, we as a humanity, basically learn nothing, and it's sad as hell.
bufalo1973@piefed.social · 17 pts · 102d
The "little" difference is that almost everyone in Spain is with the assaulted while almost everyone in Israel is with the aggressors.
Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 16 pts · 101d
ACAB
bampop@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 102d
Wait, what.... this must be like when someone's sucking your dick quite vigorously and you need to tell them to ease off a bit
emmanuel_car@k.fe.derate.me · 7 pts · 102d
Clearly sarcasm because of how Spain has condemned Israel’s treatment of the flotilla
bampop@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 101d
I'm not saying these police represent Spain as a whole. Fascists gonna fash wherever they are
leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 101d
ACAB, and I can't believe I'm defending Spain, whose police would almost certainly have done the same, but it seems to be the ertzaintza, the Basque police, so if anyone they're supposed to represent Euskadi, not Spain.
Solrac@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 102d
More twelve them to suck harder
Gammelfisch@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 102d
Mossad agent in the Spanish Police?
Siegfried@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 101d
I dont kkow about spain, but where i live, they are everywhere
leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 101d
ACAB, but I'd have expected it to be the guardia civil (for some cops are more bastards than others), but looks like it was the ertzaintza, the Basque police.
Which means that Israel has even less of an argument, since it's not either of the two main Spanish police forces, and they're not directly under the Spanish government's jurisdiction.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 102d
Ah, yes, the Jerusalem Post spin on things ...
kreskin@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 100d
kreskin@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 100d
scarabic@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 102d
brachiosaurus@mander.xyz · -3 pts · 102d
Where are the idiots praising the spanish government for "standing against usa" by not allowing them to use the military base they have been running in spain for 50 years? How many times do you have to get fooled to understand that they are not your friends?
wpb@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 102d
Here! I'm here! Doing good things gets you praise, doing bad things gets you boos.
If a doctor operates on someone and saves their life: yay! Good job doctor! If the same doctor then prescribes opioids to drug dealers: boo, no! Bad doctor!
Maybe you missed this class in kindergarten, but the morality of an action is not determined by its actor, but is inherent to the action.
brachiosaurus@mander.xyz · -1 pts · 101d
If trump or netanyahu tomorrow decide to leave gaza do you praise them for doing the good thing even after they murdered thousand of children?
Praising hitler for the good things he did was literally the nazi proganda, it worked as a cover up for all the bad things and persuaded people to believe that he was good.
wpb@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 98d
Yes I would.
Ibisalt@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 102d
They were blocking a gate, disrupting other travelers while repeatedly ignoring police orders to move. They staged a scene at an airport, in a country still healing from the scars of ETA terrorism. Who thinks that’s a smart move? What’s the point?
If you ask me, their best-case scenario was probably to provoke a police response, let the images of the confrontation go viral, and grab some attention. Well, the police delivered exactly what they seemed to want.
brachiosaurus@mander.xyz · 6 pts · 102d
The flotilla main goal is to bring humanitarian aid to gaza, they are provoking israel by doing it and they are aware of it. This doesn't sound bad to me because they are bringing attention to israel goverment being an authoritarian regime who torture activists and prisoners.
If a small provocation such as peacefully blocking a gate while protesting a genocide trigger the police to beat up people and arrest them, it sounds a good provocation to me because it get to remember people the reality of the world we live in and what happen the moment you refuse to obey the government.
Ibisalt@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 102d
You’re right. But they also gave Israel the perfect opportunity to make the Spanish government look bad, one of the few countries openly opposing Israel and the U.S. for their illegal wars.
brachiosaurus@mander.xyz · 0 pts · 102d
Still better than give the perfect opportunity to israel to keep going with their shit
Ibisalt@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 102d
I'm sure blocking that gate made netanyahu and his supporters think. /s
brachiosaurus@mander.xyz · 0 pts · 101d
They demanded answers from madrid so it did.
elucubra@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 102d
The Spanish National police are police, and are the arm of the states monopoly on violence concept. They have been gradually becoming a highly professional and civilized police force, since the days of the dictatorship 50 yrs ago. There are of course many power thirsty assholes that get in, but on the whole they are fairly correct and professional, to the point that when a thing like this happens, it makes international news. Critical thinking , people.
leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 101d
This was apparently the ertzaintza, though.
Sure, but to make up for that there's still the guardia civil.
elucubra@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 101d
OK, Ertzaintzas have a bit of a reputation.
Tiral@lemmy.world · -14 pts · 102d
I don't mind protests at all, it's completely your right. Assuming you're in a country that supports it, ie China your ass is black bagged. But when you impeed and block people, yeah you need to be arrested. Standing in roads, blocking hospitals, ect.
echodot@feddit.uk · 12 pts · 102d
So it's ok if they protest just as long as the protest doesn't inconvenience anyone and you don't have to notice it.
You do get how that's not a protest. Right?
in4apenny@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 102d
For some people, protesting is just whiney behaviour that didn't get them labour rights or weekends.
echodot@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 101d
The thing about protesting is that if you feel that you need to cause a disruption in order to get your point across then you kind of already exhausted all the other options. To claim that protesters have to stay out of the way is just plain stupid, and fundamentally misunderstands what a protest is, and why it comes about.
emmy67@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 102d
As long as your protest doesn't inconvenience anyone it's fine.
Which is literally the justification for stopping all protests "under rule of law". But people like the you can't see beyond the sole of the boot you're licking.
For example, Rosa parks rode the bus in the white section. It inconvenienced the white people who didn't like it. Under your logic she should be arrested. Which is what happened.
Protests need to cost money and inconvenience people or they have no power.
wpb@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 102d
A protest that impacts no one negatively is not a protest, it's a parade.
tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 102d
Blocking roads and impeding people IS protesting, just voicing your opinion without any collective action is a political rally. Protesters pretty much 100% of the time let emergency services like ambulances still pass through. If someone is blocking a hospital they are a wrecker trying to discredit the protest.