Oh god I had this happen - trying to explain to a group of visting Japanese sculpture artists that I wanted Duck Tape. No clue what it's called in japan, eventually pantomimed pulling a big strip off a roll while making a "zoooooOOOP" noise then dramatically biting to tear it.
Guy goes "Ohhhhh, DukTape" and pulls me a roll out of a bag
This is even more hilarious because that type of tape is duct tape. Duck Tape is a specific brand that has become synonymous with the product, like Kleenex for tissue or Xerox for a photocopy.
AHAHAHA, NO! it's because it was made on DUCK CLOTH!
"Duck tape" is recorded in the Oxford English Dictionary as having been in use since 1899 and "duct tape" (described as "perhaps an alteration of earlier duck tape") since 1965.
You FOOL you fell into my CLEVER PEDANTIC TRAP!
(forreal though this is one of my favorite pieces of trivia)
Oh, wow. I love this. You can correct people if they call it Duck Tape, and tell them it's duct tape. But you can also correct those annoying people who correct that!
Other way around, actually! Duck tape was originally made using duck cloth - duct tape was a malapropism of the original term (and possibly a brand name)
Actually, duct tape is an entirely different thing. It’s a metal tape with super tacky backing used to seal HVAC ducts. If you used duck tape for that it would deteriorate very quickly, but DUCT tape is designed for the temperature fluctuations.
The specific style of metal-backed tape that commonly is called "duct tape" - a heat resistant foil-backed tape designed for HVAC ducts - is not the archetype. The term "duct tape" has been used to describe many kinds of tape prior to the broad avaliablity of that specific style of metal foil tapes, and even today it does not mean specifically that type. We've used tape on ducts for ages, specifically that kind of duct tape is fairly modern.
Malapropism is probably too strong a term, I admit, but the actual origin is likely a play off duck tape:
"Duck tape" is recorded in the Oxford English Dictionary as having been in use since 1899 and "duct tape" (described as "perhaps an alteration of earlier duck tape") since 1965.
A friend of mine from argentina couldn't remember the words for stuffed crust pizza, so she called it "the pizza with cheese borders."
A similar situation happened with the word Owl when one accidentally flew into her bedroom in the middle of the night and she ran out of her bedroom screaming, "A PIGEON OF THE NIGHT IS IN MY ROOM"
I was struggling to figure out why those words were relevant for a minute. Then I figured it out that, if you thought of someone saying the English word in the worst most racist Japanese accent it sounds like those words.
Yeah you literally say it with a racist Japanese accent and they understand it perfectly. If you say the English loanword that's the Etymon they have no idea what you're saying.
Is it racism? I always thought that "engrisu" was just the normal way they transliterate. In Greek transliterated words also get "greekified" so as to better map in the language structure for example
Not really. It just makes people (the speakers) feel uncomfortable, like they're "making fun of the way they talk." To be fair, that kind of transliteration doesn't work all the time, and to assume it would might be racist? El spanish language-o does not-o just add -o sounds, and speaking like that would demonstrate a really poor understanding of who you're talking to.
I tried to get some ibuprofen in Italy and they didn't understand me, until I've added an 'a' and called it ibuprofena
Some languages are just build more on the rhythm or something
But always found it funny, that just adding the stereotypical '-a', '-o' or '-e' seems to resolve the misunderstanding
Maybe I didn't actually reply to your comment, but just wanted to share my association/memory...
Yeah, it comes down to what they determined to be basic sounds. In english, we have letters that make basic sounds. In Japanese, they have a bunch of compound sounds. Other than "n", all consonant sounds are followed by a vowel sound, and "u" (pronounced "oo") is the one that may or may not get vocalized (english usually uses "e" for this). So "pantsu" can be pronounced as it looks (pantsoo) or like english (pants). If you like Naruto, his friend/rival's name is spelled "Sasuke" but pronounced more like "Saskay".
The other big part comes from some sounds used in english just missing entirely from the japanese language. R/L are both missing, though japanese has a sound that is a mix between the two (which makes their "L" sound more like an "R" and vice versa, again if you're a Naruto fan, listen to how Sasuke pronounces "Naruto" or "Sakura", most of the english VAs just use the western pronounciation but he uses the japanese pronunciation for names). They also don't have "V" or "Th".
Another Naruto bit, they just use the japanese words for the various ninja techniques. They sound mysterious and cool in english but boring in japanese. Byakugon translates to white eyes. Rasenga is something like spiral ball. It's just funny to me how unknown word can seem like there's more to it but in their original language they come off more like one of Saitama's moves (like Normal Punch or Serious Punch).
38 Comments
Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 63 pts · 98d
Oh god I had this happen - trying to explain to a group of visting Japanese sculpture artists that I wanted Duck Tape. No clue what it's called in japan, eventually pantomimed pulling a big strip off a roll while making a "zoooooOOOP" noise then dramatically biting to tear it.
Guy goes "Ohhhhh, DukTape" and pulls me a roll out of a bag
backalleycoyote@lemmy.today · 40 pts · 98d
This is even more hilarious because that type of tape is duct tape. Duck Tape is a specific brand that has become synonymous with the product, like Kleenex for tissue or Xerox for a photocopy.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 74 pts · 98d
AHAHAHA, NO! it's because it was made on DUCK CLOTH!
You FOOL you fell into my CLEVER PEDANTIC TRAP!
(forreal though this is one of my favorite pieces of trivia)
backalleycoyote@lemmy.today · 23 pts · 98d
My pleasure to oblige you. Everyone with obscure knowledge deserves their moment.
tips hat
unemployedclaquer@sopuli.xyz · 14 pts · 98d
I am among the lucky ones who learned today so thanks because I thought the current year was 1065 and I feel betrayed
Cethin@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 98d
Oh, wow. I love this. You can correct people if they call it Duck Tape, and tell them it's duct tape. But you can also correct those annoying people who correct that!
hateisreality@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 97d
Holy shit, im one of today's 10,000!!!
Crackhappy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 96d
Welcome to the temporary club!
Theatomictruth@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 98d
I’m pretty sure “duck tape” was a common malapropism long before the brand name.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 98d
Other way around, actually! Duck tape was originally made using duck cloth - duct tape was a malapropism of the original term (and possibly a brand name)
ButteryMonkey@piefed.social · 7 pts · 98d
Actually, duct tape is an entirely different thing. It’s a metal tape with super tacky backing used to seal HVAC ducts. If you used duck tape for that it would deteriorate very quickly, but DUCT tape is designed for the temperature fluctuations.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 98d
And is a much more modern development than the name "duct tape" but yes!
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 98d
Are you sure? Why would anyone call it "duct tape" before it was used on ducts?
Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 98d
The specific style of metal-backed tape that commonly is called "duct tape" - a heat resistant foil-backed tape designed for HVAC ducts - is not the archetype. The term "duct tape" has been used to describe many kinds of tape prior to the broad avaliablity of that specific style of metal foil tapes, and even today it does not mean specifically that type. We've used tape on ducts for ages, specifically that kind of duct tape is fairly modern.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 98d
Duct tape is specifically used to tape ducts together, so I'm not sure it was necessarily a malapropism
Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 98d
Malapropism is probably too strong a term, I admit, but the actual origin is likely a play off duck tape:
(via wikipedia)
Velypso@sh.itjust.works · 49 pts · 98d
A friend of mine from argentina couldn't remember the words for stuffed crust pizza, so she called it "the pizza with cheese borders."
A similar situation happened with the word Owl when one accidentally flew into her bedroom in the middle of the night and she ran out of her bedroom screaming, "A PIGEON OF THE NIGHT IS IN MY ROOM"
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 98d
I used to call owls "exorcist pigeons".
StillAlive@piefed.world · 44 pts · 98d
If you're communicating with Japanese people, you should not be worried about appearing racist.
For example, convenience stores are called konbini, short for konbiniensu sutoa (コンビニエンスストア), and milkshake is mirukuseki (ミルクシェーク).
Cethin@lemmy.zip · 34 pts · 98d
I was struggling to figure out why those words were relevant for a minute. Then I figured it out that, if you thought of someone saying the English word in the worst most racist Japanese accent it sounds like those words.
StillAlive@piefed.world · 28 pts · 98d
Yup. Merry-Go-Round is called merigoraundo (メリーゴーラウンド) or merigorando (メリーゴーランド).
iocase@lemmy.zip · 30 pts · 98d
Yeah you literally say it with a racist Japanese accent and they understand it perfectly. If you say the English loanword that's the Etymon they have no idea what you're saying.
db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 98d
Is it racism? I always thought that "engrisu" was just the normal way they transliterate. In Greek transliterated words also get "greekified" so as to better map in the language structure for example
petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 98d
Not really. It just makes people (the speakers) feel uncomfortable, like they're "making fun of the way they talk." To be fair, that kind of transliteration doesn't work all the time, and to assume it would might be racist? El spanish language-o does not-o just add -o sounds, and speaking like that would demonstrate a really poor understanding of who you're talking to.
naeap@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 98d
Well...
I tried to get some ibuprofen in Italy and they didn't understand me, until I've added an 'a' and called it ibuprofena
Some languages are just build more on the rhythm or something
But always found it funny, that just adding the stereotypical '-a', '-o' or '-e' seems to resolve the misunderstanding
Maybe I didn't actually reply to your comment, but just wanted to share my association/memory...
petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 98d
That's fine. I love sharing. :p
It is funny how cultural mishaps like that happen, and it warms my heart every time two people can share a laugh about it.
tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 97d
Pretty much the same the other way around too. If you tell Japanese speakers you do karadee or want to go to carryokee they probably won't get it.
schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 97d
I moved to a place that called liquor stores “pakis” and I thought it was some racist shit until someone explained it was short for "package store.”
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 97d
Yeah, it comes down to what they determined to be basic sounds. In english, we have letters that make basic sounds. In Japanese, they have a bunch of compound sounds. Other than "n", all consonant sounds are followed by a vowel sound, and "u" (pronounced "oo") is the one that may or may not get vocalized (english usually uses "e" for this). So "pantsu" can be pronounced as it looks (pantsoo) or like english (pants). If you like Naruto, his friend/rival's name is spelled "Sasuke" but pronounced more like "Saskay".
The other big part comes from some sounds used in english just missing entirely from the japanese language. R/L are both missing, though japanese has a sound that is a mix between the two (which makes their "L" sound more like an "R" and vice versa, again if you're a Naruto fan, listen to how Sasuke pronounces "Naruto" or "Sakura", most of the english VAs just use the western pronounciation but he uses the japanese pronunciation for names). They also don't have "V" or "Th".
Another Naruto bit, they just use the japanese words for the various ninja techniques. They sound mysterious and cool in english but boring in japanese. Byakugon translates to white eyes. Rasenga is something like spiral ball. It's just funny to me how unknown word can seem like there's more to it but in their original language they come off more like one of Saitama's moves (like Normal Punch or Serious Punch).
SleeplessCityLights@programming.dev · 16 pts · 98d
Japanese has so many English loanwords. Its like they stopped adding Japanese words after they started to open up to the West.
Gork@sopuli.xyz · 15 pts · 98d
It doesn't have to just be for children. Horse tornadoes for adults too!
ggtdbz@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 12 pts · 98d
I didn’t know the word rotisserie in English (I guess French?) so I once called it “rotating chicken closet; roadside open-flame oven”
Wren@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 98d
Just yesterday I forgot the word for coaster so I said "small bed for my cup." English is my first language.
unemployedclaquer@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 97d
The word for rotisserie in American English is Costco, something shady hastening there
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 98d
Wouldn't that be a carousel? Specifically because of the horses and going up and down.
Wren@lemmy.today · 13 pts · 98d
They're interchangeable. It's merry and it goes around.
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 98d
I used to call it a "spinny pukey" when I was a kid.
zero_spelled_with_an_ecks@programming.dev · 6 pts · 98d
Yep or yeeeeeep.