I got really REALLY drunk with Norwegians once. One of the dudes got real serious at one point and said, “Lads. If we take lands in Ireland we can become LORDS.” Everyone looked stern and nodded.
As a Norwegian fairly interested in fotball, I wish everyone could engage slightly less with fascist governments and corrupt organisations. We can do better than USA and FIFA.
While I think it's just harmless fun, understand most of those criticizms. But the nazi comparisons seem sad and pathetic. Should every symbol the nazis tried to appropriate for themselves be surrendered to them? Should we give them the ability to limit what symbols the rest of us are allowed to use? I don't think we should.
It has been a problem in particular with runes, as they are heavily associated with neo-nazis to the point where at least Scandinavians often feel very uncomfortable around it. Some participants in the debate in Norway are praising the team for reclaiming the symbolism from the nazis.
I personally agree that we cannot surrender our historical legacy to nazis, and I think it's worth making active efforts to reclaim it. So I think this is a good thing, as long as the team also make sure to celebrate diversity and anti-fascism. I chose my user name here according to a similar logic.
I was talking about the symbolism associated with the viking cultures, not the way they conducted themselves when visiting neighbours. I wouldn't want the majority of thar to be shelved off as nazism just because some germans a millenia later thought the letters and mythology looked cool and wanted them for themselves. Or should we ditch every aspect of mythology and folklore that the schizoid Himmler decided to take a fascination with?
That one has basically no other associations in the western world and I'm not a hindu, so I don't have a reason to. But pagan traditions, symbolism and mythology are a different matter. If you wish to label all of those as nazism, only the nazis will thank you for it.
Can you quote where I labelled them all the above as nazism please. You seem to have spent this entire conversation trying to put words in my mouth.
In fact, can you also quote where I said we need to throw out everything the nazis ever tried to claim while we're here too please. I feel like you made that one up as well.
Any symbol that can possibly remind people of something bad will spark instant rageposting - the desire to vent anger seems to outweigh wanting to be right.
I said it has overtones of all the above. I didn't say its all nazism. Its very surprising to me that people have chosen to read that when the only person who said anything like that was someone else trying to put words in my mouth.
Pretty much any group from history behaved terribly by modern standards. Even the colonized were doing their own colonizing before being overpowered by a more powerful colonizer.
That whole northern viking folklore is actually kind of insane if you know that the whole game of the vikings was to sail to other countries, loot & pillage and to murder, rape & enslave people.
I doubt they were that dense. If they could get the loot without killing, maybe even the villagers carrying it to their ship, they would do so and come back in the next harvesting season.
57 Comments
saltnotsugar@lemmy.world · 81 pts · 81d
I got really REALLY drunk with Norwegians once. One of the dudes got real serious at one point and said, “Lads. If we take lands in Ireland we can become LORDS.” Everyone looked stern and nodded.
aeronmelon@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 81d
Did you invade Ireland?
saltnotsugar@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 81d
I am now something called a “Jarl” which is not tax deductible but still pretty cool. The Irish government was GRUMPY about this though.
aeronmelon@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 81d
ClownStatue@piefed.social · 10 pts · 81d
Yeah, don’t leave us hanging!
okamiueru@lemmy.world · 47 pts · 81d
As a Norwegian fairly interested in fotball, I wish everyone could engage slightly less with fascist governments and corrupt organisations. We can do better than USA and FIFA.
josteinsn@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 81d
Big discussion in Norway atm about this aesthetic-- kitsch? camp? vulgar? too aryan? to chauvinistic? or just too close to nazi symbolism for comfort?
https://thevikingherald.com/article/the-vikings-return-to-america-norwegian-soccer-team-gets-in-the-world-cup-spirit/1395
https://www.dagbladet.no/sport/kritikkstorm-faen-sa-dum/84715979
MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 80d
Nazi symbolism?
That's like calling an Indian person with swastika a Nazi.
Evotech@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 80d
Good fun
undergroundoverground@lemmy.world · -15 pts · 81d
All of the above tbh.
Deme@sopuli.xyz · 52 pts · 81d
While I think it's just harmless fun, understand most of those criticizms. But the nazi comparisons seem sad and pathetic. Should every symbol the nazis tried to appropriate for themselves be surrendered to them? Should we give them the ability to limit what symbols the rest of us are allowed to use? I don't think we should.
aasatru@kbin.earth · 30 pts · 81d
It has been a problem in particular with runes, as they are heavily associated with neo-nazis to the point where at least Scandinavians often feel very uncomfortable around it. Some participants in the debate in Norway are praising the team for reclaiming the symbolism from the nazis.
I personally agree that we cannot surrender our historical legacy to nazis, and I think it's worth making active efforts to reclaim it. So I think this is a good thing, as long as the team also make sure to celebrate diversity and anti-fascism. I chose my user name here according to a similar logic.
undergroundoverground@lemmy.world · -22 pts · 81d
You're right, it's unfair on the scandiboos to associate brutal white slaver-colonisers with nazis.
Deme@sopuli.xyz · 11 pts · 81d
I was talking about the symbolism associated with the viking cultures, not the way they conducted themselves when visiting neighbours. I wouldn't want the majority of thar to be shelved off as nazism just because some germans a millenia later thought the letters and mythology looked cool and wanted them for themselves. Or should we ditch every aspect of mythology and folklore that the schizoid Himmler decided to take a fascination with?
undergroundoverground@lemmy.world · -11 pts · 81d
If you want to wear a swastika, that's your choice to make. People will judge you for it though.
Deme@sopuli.xyz · 17 pts · 81d
That one has basically no other associations in the western world and I'm not a hindu, so I don't have a reason to. But pagan traditions, symbolism and mythology are a different matter. If you wish to label all of those as nazism, only the nazis will thank you for it.
undergroundoverground@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 81d
Can you quote where I labelled them all the above as nazism please. You seem to have spent this entire conversation trying to put words in my mouth.
In fact, can you also quote where I said we need to throw out everything the nazis ever tried to claim while we're here too please. I feel like you made that one up as well.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 81d
If a Hindu, Buddhist, or Jain puts a swastika outside their home, literally no one except an ignorant person would judge them for it.
We're talking about Scandinavians using the viking aesthetic for a photoshoot. It's not nazism.
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 79d
Any symbol that can possibly remind people of something bad will spark instant rageposting - the desire to vent anger seems to outweigh wanting to be right.
undergroundoverground@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 81d
I said it has overtones of all the above. I didn't say its all nazism. Its very surprising to me that people have chosen to read that when the only person who said anything like that was someone else trying to put words in my mouth.
I don't know, felt kind of cheap to me.
MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 80d
Stupidly. The ones judging should be called out for being ignorant.
Starik@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 81d
Pretty much any group from history behaved terribly by modern standards. Even the colonized were doing their own colonizing before being overpowered by a more powerful colonizer.
undergroundoverground@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 81d
Wow I really upset the scandiboos.
MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 80d
No, you upset intelligent people with your flagrant stupidity.
MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 80d
Yeah, we'll wait for the mythical large-scale group of perfect humans. What a dumbass fucking take.
MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 80d
The first two, arguably. The remaining are ridiculous.
Pixel_Jock_17@piefed.ca · 14 pts · 81d
A severe lacking of beards. Clearly these are footballers and not Vikings they are cosplaying as. Its cute.
Gates9@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 81d
They probably have all their teeth too, and I bet none of them have intestinal worms. Certainly not Vikings.
GargleBlaster@feddit.org · 5 pts · 81d
Do you even live if you don't have intestinal worms? Smh my head
Gates9@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 81d
THESE are the faces of men cohabiting with intestinal worms
dvlsg@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 81d
Beard or no, I don't think I'd want to run into Haaland on a battlefield.
Corngood@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 81d
Erling Haaland: this is what I've actually been training for
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 0 pts · 80d
It was his suggestion to recruit the photographer.
JensSpahnpasta@feddit.org · 8 pts · 81d
That whole northern viking folklore is actually kind of insane if you know that the whole game of the vikings was to sail to other countries, loot & pillage and to murder, rape & enslave people.
oce@jlai.lu · 15 pts · 81d
Lots of famous historical figures did just that.
TheVoiceOfRaison@thelemmy.club · 12 pts · 81d
Kinda frowned upon these, but back then was all the rage!
Bahnd@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 81d
Significantly fewer poorly defended, costal monastaries in england these days... I wonder why?
CMDR_Horn@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 81d
But only kinda
Vinylraupe@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 81d
I doubt they were that dense. If they could get the loot without killing, maybe even the villagers carrying it to their ship, they would do so and come back in the next harvesting season.
But who knows.
undergroundoverground@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 81d
Yeah, the vikings PR team is only surpassed by regular pirates and the British royal family.
TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 81d
https://youtu.be/XsTpdqLFtoo
Evotech@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 80d
It's a vibe
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 79d
Well hey, if pirates and mafia characters can be popular why can't vikings.
libre_warrior@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 80d
Good first impression.
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 79d
This reminds me of a Netflix series called Norsemen - a somewhat slow moving, very dry comedy about vikings. Worth watching!
Leax@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 77d
It's a good show!