"A man in Austria was rejected from art school, one thing led to another, and America dropped two nuclear weapons on the sovereign nation of Japan." - Brian Regan
It’s easy to assume something you have no clue about must be easy and anyone could do it. If you’re dumb and lack imagination, that is. I’d like to nominate a random farmer from Iowa to pilot Harrison Smith’s next plane ride.
Ah, ha, no. That's definitely not why, though talking to MacArthur on a regular basis probably had a lot to do with realizing the military absolutely couldn't be trusted with sole discretion.
Behind the Bastards actually did a series on that particular chain of events, "The Men Who Might Have Killed Us All."
Thanks for the pointer to the series, looks super-interesting.
I am going off the book, "The Most Awful Responsibility" which is a detailed telling of the events around Truman, the decision to drop the bomb and the consequences for nuclear policy.
so war crimes allow further crimes? we had no actual need to nuke them. let alone civilians. let alone twice. they were already going toward a surrender. but hey he knew the cold was was next, so to speak, so we might as well vaporize a few civilians to show russia we’re capable?
Internal US discussions at the time show that the US did not believe Japan was heading towards a surrender, and projected immense casualties from either of the other two options (invasion, blockade) to end the war. For that matter, Japan was not 'going toward a surrender' except insofar as their 'surrender' offers included "We keep our brutal colonial empire, otherwise we will fight to the end." Japan was training fucking schoolchildren to become suicide bombers in preparation for a US invasion at that time. That's not 'going toward a surrender'.
Yeah it seems pretty clear civilian deaths were coming regardless, whether through sustained aerial assault and ground invasion or two nukes. Which choice was less bad is something we can only speculate about
I thought for sure they had to have mostly run out between Korea and Vietnam and this to be a factoid repeated for decades too long, but nope, 1,500,000 made, approximately 60,000 thought to still be in stockpiles.
There were way more civilian deaths from the war continuing than from the use of the atom bombs that helped convince the Japanese government to throw in the towel (aside from the parts of it that stubbornly attempted a failed coup to keep the war going, anyway). The Japanese occupation at the time of the atom bombing stretched from eastern China out to Indonesia and was quite brutal to say the least with many millions of civilians killed.
29 Comments
PugJesus@piefed.social · 49 pts · 58d
There were, unfortunately, much worse outcomes than that which were possible.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 40 pts · 58d
"A man in Austria was rejected from art school, one thing led to another, and America dropped two nuclear weapons on the sovereign nation of Japan." - Brian Regan
iocase@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 58d
And you can thank those two portable suns for giving us anime and hentai
natecox@programming.dev · 7 pts · 58d
The big yellow one is the sun.
ToastedRavioli@midwest.social · 14 pts · 58d
Calm down there, Copernicus
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 58d
Pick me! Pick Me! I have ideas.
not very good ones, I'm afraid, but I can at least make sure Trump can't hurt any more kids.
WhoIzDisIz@lemmy.today · 23 pts · 58d
Keeping Trump from harming kids is a very good idea, so you've contradicted yourself already - like a true politician!
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 58d
So you want to see Trump in prison, but strapped to a cam show where tips cause various electrodes to, you know, zap him?
Electrodes in very awkward places?
Tips go to helping all the people he hates most, of course.
Starik@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 58d
Conservatives have no respect for expertise.
It’s easy to assume something you have no clue about must be easy and anyone could do it. If you’re dumb and lack imagination, that is. I’d like to nominate a random farmer from Iowa to pilot Harrison Smith’s next plane ride.
xylogx@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 57d
And he was so horrified at the results that he created the doctrine of civilian control of nuclear weapons.
PugJesus@piefed.social · 12 pts · 57d
"The buck stops here"
Truman had many faults, flaws, and mistakes. But he still ranks as one of our best presidents.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · 2 pts · 57d
Ah, ha, no. That's definitely not why, though talking to MacArthur on a regular basis probably had a lot to do with realizing the military absolutely couldn't be trusted with sole discretion.
Behind the Bastards actually did a series on that particular chain of events, "The Men Who Might Have Killed Us All."
xylogx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 55d
Thanks for the pointer to the series, looks super-interesting.
I am going off the book, "The Most Awful Responsibility" which is a detailed telling of the events around Truman, the decision to drop the bomb and the consequences for nuclear policy.
https://alexwellerstein.com/writing/books/the-most-awful-responsibility/
spacegoat@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 58d
If I see a cross in your username, your opinion goes straight in the trash
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de · -3 pts · 57d
Well look what they were doing to POW's or how they surprise attacked us first.
PugJesus@piefed.social · 6 pts · 57d
That's not a justification.
flandish@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 57d
so war crimes allow further crimes? we had no actual need to nuke them. let alone civilians. let alone twice. they were already going toward a surrender. but hey he knew the cold was was next, so to speak, so we might as well vaporize a few civilians to show russia we’re capable?
PugJesus@piefed.social · 12 pts · 57d
The targets were chosen for their military value.
Internal US discussions at the time show that the US did not believe Japan was heading towards a surrender, and projected immense casualties from either of the other two options (invasion, blockade) to end the war. For that matter, Japan was not 'going toward a surrender' except insofar as their 'surrender' offers included "We keep our brutal colonial empire, otherwise we will fight to the end." Japan was training fucking schoolchildren to become suicide bombers in preparation for a US invasion at that time. That's not 'going toward a surrender'.
cmbabul@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 53d
Always nice when I think a user is a fuck and upon investigating I find them in a losing argument with you
Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org · -6 pts · 58d
I'm waiting for the downside?
PugJesus@piefed.social · 16 pts · 58d
Probably the civilian deaths.
protist@retrofed.com · 12 pts · 58d
Yeah it seems pretty clear civilian deaths were coming regardless, whether through sustained aerial assault and ground invasion or two nukes. Which choice was less bad is something we can only speculate about
I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 57d
We are still using the surplus of Purple Heart medals we made in WWII in anticipation of a ground invasion of Japan. Food for thought.
PugJesus@piefed.social · 1 pts · 57d
I think we're just now using up the last of them.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · 1 pts · 57d
I thought for sure they had to have mostly run out between Korea and Vietnam and this to be a factoid repeated for decades too long, but nope, 1,500,000 made, approximately 60,000 thought to still be in stockpiles.
Nautalax@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 58d
There were way more civilian deaths from the war continuing than from the use of the atom bombs that helped convince the Japanese government to throw in the towel (aside from the parts of it that stubbornly attempted a failed coup to keep the war going, anyway). The Japanese occupation at the time of the atom bombing stretched from eastern China out to Indonesia and was quite brutal to say the least with many millions of civilians killed.
RubberDuck@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 58d
https://youtu.be/RCRTgtpC-Go
Nautalax@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 58d
?
UntimedDiffusion@piefed.zip · 6 pts · 58d
Do you mean of putting one guy in power or nuking Japan?