World's first 10,800 car carrier with solar power delivered by China
https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/china-delivers-worlds-first-10800-vehicle-ship
https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/china-delivers-worlds-first-10800-vehicle-ship
30 Comments
Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 53 pts · 33d
I was real excited for electric shipping since one ship like this produces an unbelievable amount of pollution, but this is kinda pitiful in comparison to the power needs of these ships:
1000kwh isn't nothing
and I suppose it might meet the ship's power needs while in port(edit: nvm average shore power consumption for a panamax is 600kw) but this feels like a whole lot of greenwashing given they don't mention the power requirements in the article.Mihies@programming.dev · 17 pts · 33d
It's more like half full cup, except here is 0.01% full.
gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org · 3 pts · 32d
actually i think it's more like 1% full.
pHr34kY@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 33d
Your average electric Porsche consumes more than 200kW.
It's basically rounding error when you lug 10,000 of them.
bountygiver@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 33d
hmm quite disappointing, guess to run something power hungry but has limited space like a ship nuclear might be the way if you want it fast, if you don't need it fast you could go wind power (sails are so back)
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 33d
honestly surprised they don't have something that utilizes the forces of the ocean to generate a charge.
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 11 pts · 33d
Which would increase drag and make it a worthless exercise. It would also mean loss of power in stormy seas, and who wants manoeuvrability in those sort of conditions anyway?
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 33d
that's quitter talk. if we can send trash into orbit we can certainly find a way to leverage oceanic motion.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 33d
Tidal generators are very much a technology (one, admittedly, in it's infancy). The forces the ocean provides are generally too extreme to be casually harnessed, and even something as seemingly benign as waves redounding on the beach contain energy on the scale of nuclear weapons, and it's contained in an extremely corrosive medium (salt water). And that's not even the deep ocean movements, which are unfathomably (sorry) more powerful even then, and that's before we get to the fact that the engine driving the tides is the entire damn moon.
Something like a tidal turbine would be completely unworkable on a ship; by their nature they produce energy from the difference of forces - which is to say, they would only generate power as long as the boat is moving counter to the current being harnessed. Even in an ideal world where we're sovereign citizens to the laws of thermodynamics and have cast off the shackles of entropy, your ship would still have to output the same amount of energy as your turbine is harvesting just to stay in one spot.
There's another common idea which is to use some kind of "water sail" that harnesses the currents and drags the ships along. The first problem with this is that, unless you're about to have a very bad day, the ocean is creepily slow. Waves travel through the water, but don't really displace the water molecules themselves, so there's very little for an underwater sail to harness (side note: but do make use of underwater sails, but in the exact opposite way most people expect - sea anchors are basically enormous submerged sails, used to keep a ship relatively stationary when it's too deep to use a traditional anchor). And were we to delve deeper for some of the deep thermal currents, it can take hundreds of years (or more) for water to make a complete cycle, which would be a very slow trip indeed.
Yet another proposal I've seen is to have some sort of large sliding body, a bit like those flashlights with a rod in them that you charge by shaking up and down, only much larger. The idea is that as the pitch of the ship changes as it ascends and descends waves, some very large weight (or multiple smaller weights or etc.) slides back and forth through long sets of coils, generating tremendous if quite periodic amounts of energy which is then stored in batteries or etc. This idea has many flaws, but I'll briefly touch on three:
The best approach would be to capture the quicker currents that are close to the surface, which are are often wind driven. There's actually been huge advancements to harvest wind currents directly, usually using large sheets of cloth (or some other medium with high tensile strength) attached to long towers on the surface of the ship with these things called sails.
... Okay but joking aside, there actually have been really cool advances in using sails on cargo ships, that are extremely promising. More work needs to be done before we see them on a panamax, but there's already been some fairly eager adoption of rotor sails for smaller cargo ships! It's super cool tech that I hope can be combined with electrification to massively reduce (or if I were an optimist, eliminate entirely) the impact of shipping. Time will of course tell, but there is some cool progress being made.
notabot@piefed.social · 1 pts · 31d
Curses! Foiled by surprise differential equations again!
Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 33d
We already do with tidal generators.
And theres ways to follow currents for extra help, but you’re limited to that and where the current moves.
Anything else and you’d have to violate the laws of physics.
It’s like putting a wind turbine on an electric car. The increased drag would cost more electricity than the turbine could produce.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 31d
Get outta here with your laws of thermodynamics...these are international waters!
yaroto98@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 33d
That looks a little gimmicky to me. I'd expect more panels on that ship if they were going to have a meaningful impact.
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 33d
I saw a story about a similar car carrier with solar panels, basically they're used to offset the hotel load of the ship, and have nothing to do with the propulsion.
Which is still a significant improvement considering how much time a vessel like this spends at port loading and unloading.
kohlenstoff@feddit.org · 7 pts · 33d
If you wanna be serious about saving fuel use Flettner rotors.
xthexder@l.sw0.com · 9 pts · 32d
One of the first things that page says is that it generates less force than a standard marine propeller. That seems like it'd be less efficient and use more fuel to me.
Theoriginalthon@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 32d
You can't compare total force output to efficiency like that. You need power in and power out.
_However, the global economic crash caused a decrease in consumer buying confidence. In addition to this, Marine Diesel Oil (MDO) and the related engine technology required to use it became readily and cheaply available. Fuel prices at that point meant that any savings achieved by the rotor were too small for shipping companies to consider the investment due to the lengthy payback period. _
So yeah cheap fossil fuels strike again
xthexder@l.sw0.com · 1 pts · 32d
The exact quote is
Based on that, the input power is a constant because they are comparing against the same motor. I would assume the power consumption is constant rather than bursty for either propulsion system, so there isn't any peak-vs-avg power to be concerned about either.
kohlenstoff@feddit.org · 1 pts · 32d
That "source" is some NASA tutorial that just states that quote without any elaboration at the bottom. I don't know how that passes as a source at all nor is it generally applicable in modern ships.
On the other hand there are multiple ships currently using these as additional propulsion system (as you can see further below in the wiki article). Flettners inital prototype used rotors as exclusive propulsion system. One could also use a kite or a sail by using the wind in favourable conditions.
hanrahan@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 32d
or a sail
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 33d
First thought it was a GPU or something.
gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org · 6 pts · 32d
very cool! does anyone know what fraction of its energy consumption that it can produce on-site? i.e. the 1 MWh that it produces a day from solar panels, how many % are that of its total energy consumption for propulsion that day?
gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org · 9 pts · 32d
i just calculated that 1 MWh is about 300 kg of fuel (that it replaces) a day. so in 2 weeks, that's maybe 5 t of fuel that it saves? that does not seem so much to me.
turmacar@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 32d
It may not be much but it is something.
They already run on crude instead of more refined fuel for very small percentage point gains in fuel cost.
5t less fuel over 2 weeks isn't nothing, and this is the first one. With visibly a shit-ton more room for more panels.
Abyssian@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 32d
Man, I don't even have a 1 car carrier. It's never enough for some people.
yessikg@fedia.io · 3 pts · 32d
Don't they also have big ships with sails?
kalleboo@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 32d
So this ship is obviously just an experiment in greenwashing, it sounds like the panels basically just keep the lights on.
But if the 10,800 cars were all EVs equipped with V2L and you had them powering the ship, how far could their batteries at 100% propel the ship?
10,800 * 80 kWh = 864,000 kWh. Another post said the engine output is 15,000 kW, so it could go full steam for 864,000/15,000 = 57.6 hours? Although I guess using an electric rather than fossil engine will be a lot more efficient (2x? 3x?) Still, the energy density of oil is amazing...
PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 32d
Ultimately the paradigm of mass shipping millions of tons of cargo across the ocean needs to stop if the environment is something that anyone wants to pretend to care about. As far as the cargo that is shipped, Cars are certainly the worst.
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 32d
Shipping is a very small problem. In exchange for efficient centralized mass factory production it is no issue at all.
jaykrown@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 32d
I was actually thinking about this recently. It's now making a lot of sense to just cover the mega carriers in solar panels like this. Could probably even just carry a massive battery and be completely emissions free. Maybe a tiny nuclear reactor as an emergency backup?