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c/tenforward · by Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 25d

Trek was always ~~woke~~ run by pervs

Semi collaborative meme. I got some advice and encouragement from @sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz , @SatyrSack@quokk.au , and the enlightened mod @ummthatguy@lemmy.world. You can see the sausage making/brainstorming process here :

https://lemmy.world/post/49934354

Also, in reference to our much missed PugJesus ...

Explanation : While we like to repeat that Trek has always been woke, some parts of the wardrobe choices have been ... more male gaze motivated instead of solely for female empowerment. Actreses did complain about Bergman's choices and biases more vocally, but always remember your roots kids.

I wanted to back up the specific actress' viewpoints with sources, but the facts aren't so cut and dry, and I cannot verify these statements. The meme does capture the mood about the outfits, while it doesn't necessarily reflect the specific events and actress' viewpoints.

The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.

EDIT : Folks, the reason for the thread isn't just to post the stuff you beat off to in the 90s. I'm not saying don't post it, but like, I'm saying it was NOT a good thing that it happened.

293 points · 66 comments · view on lemmy.world

66 Comments

autonomous@lemmy.world · 65 pts · 25d (9 replies)

tacosanonymous@mander.xyz · 60 pts · 25d (8 replies)

We were so close to greatness.

Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 35 pts · 25d (7 replies)

Jeeez Rod-man, I like the horndog in you when we cut that cleavage on Trio's outfit, but keep that gay shit out of here!

  • Rick Bergman, probably
Steve@startrek.website · 35 pts · 25d (6 replies)

Kolanaki@pawb.social · 8 pts · 25d

"Worf Rick! That is an incredibly outmoded and sexist attotude. Besides... You'd look good in a dress."

Apocalypteroid@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 24d (1 reply)

That does not look comfortable

PrimeMinisterKeyes@leminal.space · 3 pts · 24d

My guess is they wear clothes only when there's visitors around.

SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 24d (1 reply)

uh...one more camel toe than anticipated.

Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 23d

How many takes had to be redone because those guys popped a halfie?

Smoogs@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 23d

when the camel toe turns into the camel knuckle

aeronmelon@lemmy.world · 46 pts · 25d (2 replies)

It’s mostly Rick Berman’s fault.

It’s always Rick Berman’s fault.

grue@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 25d (1 reply)

Nah.

I mean, yes, in the TNG era it was Rick Berman's fault. But it goes all the way back to TOS and Gene Roddenberry himself. And also costume designer William Ware Theiss, for that matter.

From https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheissTitillationTheory :

Though Theiss was a costume designer, according to Inside Star Trek: The Real Story by Herb Solow and Robert Justman, most of the costumes — following this theory — were actually somewhat more modest before being "improved" by Gene Roddenberry. According to the "Art of Star Trek" book, Theiss preferred to design costumes that only appeared to be in danger of slipping or coming off, through the use of strategically-placed sheer or skin tone fabric. He was further able to enhance the effect by the censorship rules of the time regarding what parts of the body could or could not be shown (the navel being the most well-known restriction). He found he could get surprising amounts of appeal from the carefully-arranged display of skin not generally considered erogenous.

MintyAnt@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 25d

Yes but also: which, out of all of them, had a sweaty, half naked "rub oil on each other" scene?

I'm all for star trek having sex and bringing it to the forefront, but woof they need to have at least some finesse to it.

ummthatguy@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 25d (12 replies)

Thanks for the mention. Figured you'd come to a solid concept and you nailed it.

Once "Dick" Berman was at the helm by Enterprise, the decon chamber scenes became the epitome of his exploitation.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 25d (1 reply)

Imagine having to do that with your coworkers

sundray@lemmus.org · 12 pts · 24d

I've been told to cut back on imagining that.

Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 25d (6 replies)

Thanks for the mention.

I give credit where credit is due... also, a subtle way of saying "LOOK MOD AH MAYED DIS! PAY ME ATTENSHUN!"

Figured you’d come to a solid concept and you nailed it.

Thank you.

ummthatguy@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 25d (3 replies)

Notice me, senpai!

Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 25d (2 replies)

While I have your attention, what's the actual T'pol /Hoshi thing you were referring to? I didn't get it, nor a direct explanation.

ummthatguy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 25d (1 reply)

Just a vague sense of envy, really. Not much else to it.

sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 24d

Oh. I'm a dumbass, I searched that on google and first result was them standing in a decon chamber in there underwear so I assumed that was it

MyBrainHurts@piefed.ca · 6 pts · 25d (1 reply)

I kinda wish we had a "OG Fediverse material" tag or something.

Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 25d

The Skullgrid Seal of Postage certifies that each post is either handcrafted by Skullgrid himself, is a part of the Ouroboros of reposts and crossposts of content already part of our fediverse ecosystem, or at the very least, vintage aged on the internet before presenting as posts to our communities.

Skullgrid : Certified Woke^TM^ Member of the Tesseract banlist.

MintyAnt@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 25d (2 replies)

Don't forget archers dog pissing on an aliens sacred tree in those exploits!

ummthatguy@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 25d

It was a natural reaction. He's hardly to blame. Porthos practically earned a slice of cheese for pointing out the fault in their rituals.

daggermoon@piefed.world · 3 pts · 24d

That was funny af LMAO

WhoIzDisIz@lemmy.today · 20 pts · 25d (13 replies)

I can't believe you didn't include/reference Marina Sirtis' "camel toe" outfit. Still blows my mind that they got away with that.

DarkCloud@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 25d (1 reply)

ummthatguy@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 25d

This was season 6, btw.

Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 25d (9 replies)

I originally wasn't even going to include T'Pol. I don't know about Sirtis' camel toe outfit. You wanna tell me?

Steve@startrek.website · 21 pts · 25d (1 reply)

SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 24d

But before that she was an intergalactic cheerleader.

WhoIzDisIz@lemmy.today · 19 pts · 25d (6 replies)

I'm not a huge Trek person so much anymore so I don't recall exactly when, but I'm pretty sure it was the earlier episodes where there were times when the lavender-colored skin-tight suit they had her wear got a bit... too tight. I was young, and more into the story so didn't notice until a friend mentioned it. It was one of those things where once you saw it, you couldn't un-see it.

Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 25d (5 replies)

In the search for a reasonable quote from Grace Nichols, I polluted my search history enough without adding "Troi Cameltoe" to it.

I don't even like pantyshots or cameltoes

WhoIzDisIz@lemmy.today · 11 pts · 25d (3 replies)

Yeah, you kinda should use a separate browser for that stuff.

grue@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 25d (2 replies)

That's what Incognito Mode is for.

WhoIzDisIz@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 24d (1 reply)

It's my understanding that helps people from seeing it on your local device, but doesn't keep the search engine from fingerprinting your device & browser.

grue@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 24d

Right, and Skullgrid wanted to avoid polluting his browser history. It's the right use-case.

WhoIzDisIz@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 25d

So, your comment got me curious & I did the search. Not only is there a Facebook group named after it, but of course there's a Reddit post about it with a comment containing several links to various Troi scenes on YouTube. Here's the first, just so you see I'm not full of it (apparently my aging memory has the wrong outfit).

Troi camel toe appereance: TNG 03x02 The Ensigns of Command

kieron115@startrek.website · 10 pts · 25d

I doubt any of them ever imagined that someone would undertake the herculean effort of remastering it in high definition.

Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 24d (6 replies)

We'll let that sink in...

hakunawazo@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 24d

Doesn't need to sink in, it needs to rise up.

Beside that: Comfy is better than stretchy:

SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 24d (2 replies)

apparently by 2200, humans have evolved to no longer need a toilet.

Q_the_misanthrope@startrek.website · 2 pts · 23d

Beam the poop and pee out. Easy peasy.

Tattorack@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 24d

A what?

deft@lemmy.wtf · 3 pts · 24d (1 reply)

Not gonna sink in very far from the looks of it

Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 24d

That's only because no kids are around.

TisI@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 24d (5 replies)

Wait, what happened to pug Jesus? I've noticed he hasn't been around for a while now.

Rubisco@slrpnk.net · 15 pts · 24d (4 replies)

https://feddit.uk/post/52137875

tl,dr: rimu (of piefed) decided 240 votes should be the daily max for users. PJ wasn't feeling up to yet another instance migration.

Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 24d (1 reply)

What an absolutely moronic rule

Rubisco@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 24d

Agreed.

Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 24d

thanks for doing the hard work

TisI@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 23d

Oh wow, thanks for the update. I haven't heard anything about that. What a loss for the fediverse.

VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 24d (1 reply)

Weirdly, the miniskirts in TOS were empowering for the time, but don't come across that way to modern audiences. They were even proposed by a woman, Grace Lee Whitney, who played Janice Rand. Now, keep in mind that the pants that Number One wore in the pilot were also empowering for the time. Women were expected to wear dresses or skirts that went lower than their knees at the time, and both pants and shorter hemlines were part of the feminist movement at the time. Nowadays, we see women wearing pants in any situation as completely normal and women wearing tiny skirts in professional settings to be very unprofessional, but, well, the sixties were different.

Edit: I just realized I used 'at the time' a lot and it reads kind of weird. Oh well.

Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 23d

It did read kind of weird at the time

ChicoSuave@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 25d (2 replies)

These costumes are for the chuds who miss all the other aspects of Trek until someone points out how progressive it is.

agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 25d (1 reply)

Sex sells, this has been a thing since the old pulp sci-fi magazines. Get them in the door with the triple-breasted nympho aliens, so that they stay for the progressive social commentary.

sundray@lemmus.org · 6 pts · 24d

I like a bit of licentiousness in my fiction, but I hate it when it feels I'm being slopped like a hog by some cynical producer. "We know what you want, you pigs, so here's some skin for ya'."

samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 24d (3 replies)

surewhynotlem@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 23d (2 replies)

Is this a real scene? I really gotta watch that show.

SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de · 8 pts · 23d

Yup. And it's not even the weirdest scene

It's a 10/10 show. Made by trek nerds for trek nerds

samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 23d

Yes, I always took it as an apology to McFadden and Sirtis.

Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 24d (2 replies)

wasnt joss whedon kinda pervy when TNG was around, i heard many of the actors complained about him way after the show ended.

ummthatguy@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 24d (1 reply)

Whedon has no direct ties to Trek. Wrote the OG Buffy movie (not a producer), then later wrote/directed the show which was after TNG had ended. Problematic all the same.

AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 24d

He also did Firefly and Serinety. He seems to have a good grasp on writing. He seems to have no grasp on courtesy and professionalism.

DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 4 pts · 24d

My head canon is that the Federation lets the newest member redesign the uniforms.

Troi's people were responsible for the TOS miniskirts