I absolutely hate this increasing focus on the term "Democratic Socialism." Y'all, focus on the fucking issues. James Talarico, who is doing really well in Texas, has never mentioned or associated with the term, but for example the headline on his last newsletter was "Trickle-Down Economics is Theft." Please, please, please focus on the actual issues like he is, that's how we win.
Nah, I disagree. People who focus on the issues get called socialists, and ten years ago, that would have been a big blow against your campaign. It's good that people like socialism now, because it means people like Mamdani and El-Sayed don't have to work as hard to be perceived as legitimate politicians. They can be out and proud about it and still win elections. This could be the seed of a leftward shift in society.
I'm an old guy, and after a lifetime of getting buried by all the bullshit that both parties have shoveled, I'm embracing it. It's even worse for young people today. I didn't come out of college with a lifetime of student debt as big as a mortgage, with earning potential barely above a living wage, IF you're lucky.
Our current system is unsustainable, but societal collapse is part of the business model for trillionaires, who can then take over, and reconfigure the world to suit them.
El-Sayed is pro Palestine but is explicitly not a socialist no? He is a progressive but he is a capitalist.
I get your point though. We need to work to keep shifting the culture back our way so we keep gaining more room to make more aggressive and expansive arguments people will listen to.
We need to do both I think. Being scared of the term is how the right has been able to hold so much power. We need to take back control and make it not a boogyman.
However, also, most people support leftist policy. Many don't support leftists. Many leftist policies are actually popular among Republican voters if they're only given a description and not told it's leftist or socialist.
Basically, we need to use both strategically. People pushing the DSA, and other leftists groups, can normalize it, and politicians needing to win in contested elections can use the policy, without the label, to move policy forward.
Good good. Keep it up, kiddos. This will be YOUR WORLD some day when all the boomers finally die the fuck out, so you need to stand up to make sure that you inherit a world that isn't completely fucked.
Talking to anyone MAGA about politics is so maddening because you'll ask:
Do you want (DSA policy)? Yes.
Do you think that (DSA policy)? Yes.
Would you like it if (DSA policy)? Yes.
Do you want (MAGA policy)? No, that's insane!
What do you think of (MAGA policy)? No!
I think there's a correlation between direct action and voting. There's people who go outside and do something, anything. And then there's people who sit inside and complain about every effort to make the world a better place.
To be fair, I support guillotines. But I don't consider them a viable tactic of serious politics in our current social climate. Guillotines are great for after the revolution, and we've got a long way to go before then. We need to form mutual aid networks that can mobilise into militias to take over the government. And we need to buy time for the revolution by voting against fascism, because otherwise our freedom fighters will be put in concentration camps.
Not really, they just back commons sense reforms that are desperately needed in this country, and the DemSocs are the only ones that will even acknowledge them. If the Dems were doing their jobs, we would gladly back them, but they've given us no choice. If we want these perfectly normal things that the rest of the world has, then it's the DemSocs that are the only chance of getting them.
It's fucked us over. So yeah. the headline might as wel be "Over half of YoUnG MuRiCaNs are too stupid to realize they're being fucked over by fascists!"
Oh my gees you guys, it's almost like if you make everything completely non-functional for everyone except a couple of billionaires, people start to think the system sucks fucking balls.
We can hope. DSA is run by reformists in NYC and LA atm but there is a massive contingent of communists taking over the reigns of the org bit by bit (I'm one of them. We are coming for this org and are going to make it the party we need)
Changing the symbolism behind working class movements just gives reactionaries something else to steal. Understand the history of why they co-opt symbolism and don't fight a battle that can't be won. It's our color.
When this overly progressive movement falls flat on its face it's going to be the bernie fiasco 2.0 and the progressives are going to blame everything but leftists not getting up to vote for it.
Most of the Dem Socialists I've seen are way closer to what Democrats used to be before the overton window got shifted so much. They're not overly progressive so much as they're slightly more progressive than current Dems.
It seems to me like you’d want people to vote blue no matter who instead of hoping leftists are able to present a coherent and unified vision of the future because that’s not going to happen.
52 Comments
loaf@sh.itjust.works · 44 pts · 3d
The kids are alright.
velma@sh.itjust.works · 25 pts · 3d
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net · 4 pts · 3d
NatakuNox@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 3d
jimmy90@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 2d
still not enough of them so vote blue no matter who when you get the chance
don't be sore losers lol
MyOpinion@lemmy.today · 27 pts · 3d
If young Americans voted that would mean something.
SPRUNTnsfw@fedinsfw.app · 5 pts · 3d
If Americans in general voted it would be great. Our turnout rate is atrocious.
protist@retrofed.com · 25 pts · 3d
I absolutely hate this increasing focus on the term "Democratic Socialism." Y'all, focus on the fucking issues. James Talarico, who is doing really well in Texas, has never mentioned or associated with the term, but for example the headline on his last newsletter was "Trickle-Down Economics is Theft." Please, please, please focus on the actual issues like he is, that's how we win.
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net · 16 pts · 3d
Nah, I disagree. People who focus on the issues get called socialists, and ten years ago, that would have been a big blow against your campaign. It's good that people like socialism now, because it means people like Mamdani and El-Sayed don't have to work as hard to be perceived as legitimate politicians. They can be out and proud about it and still win elections. This could be the seed of a leftward shift in society.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 3d
I'm an old guy, and after a lifetime of getting buried by all the bullshit that both parties have shoveled, I'm embracing it. It's even worse for young people today. I didn't come out of college with a lifetime of student debt as big as a mortgage, with earning potential barely above a living wage, IF you're lucky.
Our current system is unsustainable, but societal collapse is part of the business model for trillionaires, who can then take over, and reconfigure the world to suit them.
antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 3d
El-Sayed is pro Palestine but is explicitly not a socialist no? He is a progressive but he is a capitalist.
I get your point though. We need to work to keep shifting the culture back our way so we keep gaining more room to make more aggressive and expansive arguments people will listen to.
Cethin@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 3d
We need to do both I think. Being scared of the term is how the right has been able to hold so much power. We need to take back control and make it not a boogyman.
However, also, most people support leftist policy. Many don't support leftists. Many leftist policies are actually popular among Republican voters if they're only given a description and not told it's leftist or socialist.
Basically, we need to use both strategically. People pushing the DSA, and other leftists groups, can normalize it, and politicians needing to win in contested elections can use the policy, without the label, to move policy forward.
PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2d
DSA needs to become popular enough to flip the Overton window from far right garbage.
protist@retrofed.com · 2 pts · 2d
Great response right here. Thank you for this
Malyca@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 3d
We really need to win back the word from the bigots. I think we can't proceed without doing that.
switcheroo@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 3d
Good good. Keep it up, kiddos. This will be YOUR WORLD some day when all the boomers finally die the fuck out, so you need to stand up to make sure that you inherit a world that isn't completely fucked.
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 3d
Shit. More than half of the older generations do as well, as long as you can frame the argument without using the "Boogeyman" words.
Colonel_Panic_@eviltoast.org · 5 pts · 2d
Talking to anyone MAGA about politics is so maddening because you'll ask: Do you want (DSA policy)? Yes. Do you think that (DSA policy)? Yes. Would you like it if (DSA policy)? Yes. Do you want (MAGA policy)? No, that's insane! What do you think of (MAGA policy)? No!
Ok, who are you voting for? Anyone with an (R)!
Oh FFS.
PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2d
They only believe socialism belongs to the “right” people
stickly@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 3d
D*tic Sists of America
NatakuNox@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 3d
fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net · 0 pts · 3d
Hey Karl. Loved the econ book but we warned you about states bro
Jaysyn@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 3d
Yeah, but will you actually vote?
Trampampoline@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 3d
Sadly it's about all they do.
just saying, the guillotine is getting really dusty, guys.
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net · 6 pts · 3d
I think there's a correlation between direct action and voting. There's people who go outside and do something, anything. And then there's people who sit inside and complain about every effort to make the world a better place.
Funkt4st1c@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 3d
The people calling for guillotines arent voting or protesting or calling their reps or going to town hall or anything.
Id be highly surprised if they werent all just glowies with too much time on their pensions
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net · 2 pts · 3d
To be fair, I support guillotines. But I don't consider them a viable tactic of serious politics in our current social climate. Guillotines are great for after the revolution, and we've got a long way to go before then. We need to form mutual aid networks that can mobilise into militias to take over the government. And we need to buy time for the revolution by voting against fascism, because otherwise our freedom fighters will be put in concentration camps.
Loco_Mex@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 2d
Guillotines after the revolution are for revenge fantasy losers. Once you have won, you do not need to kill people.
Guillotines are for during the revolution when you cannot guarantee you can keep them from getting back power.
theacharnian@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 3d
Red scare incoming.
KulunkelBoom@lemmus.org · 5 pts · 3d
Well they goddam sure don't want their taxes going to rich people or murdering people in foreign countries.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 3d
That's Commie talk!
SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 3d
Half of young people don't back democratic socialism? That's wild.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 3d
We've had a century of being taught socialism is evil. The word is essentially poisoned in American politics.
obbeel@kbin.earth · 4 pts · 3d
More democracy can't be bad.
charade_you_are@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 3d
Is that percentage supposed to make people feel good about things?
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 2d
Nearly half isn't nearly enough. Who is educating the youth today? /s
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 3d
Not really, they just back commons sense reforms that are desperately needed in this country, and the DemSocs are the only ones that will even acknowledge them. If the Dems were doing their jobs, we would gladly back them, but they've given us no choice. If we want these perfectly normal things that the rest of the world has, then it's the DemSocs that are the only chance of getting them.
Malyca@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 3d
At least we can die happy now
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 3d
We tried McCarthy's way.
It's fucked us over. So yeah. the headline might as wel be "Over half of YoUnG MuRiCaNs are too stupid to realize they're being fucked over by fascists!"
aesthelete@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 3d
Oh my gees you guys, it's almost like if you make everything completely non-functional for everyone except a couple of billionaires, people start to think the system sucks fucking balls.
bold_atlas@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 3d
I like to think that a big a chunk of the remaining half won't settle for anything less than worker ownership of the means of production.
antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 3d
We can hope. DSA is run by reformists in NYC and LA atm but there is a massive contingent of communists taking over the reigns of the org bit by bit (I'm one of them. We are coming for this org and are going to make it the party we need)
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world · -13 pts · 3d
We must pick a different color. From Nazis and Stalinism to MAGA, red has become the color of rightist authoritarians. I recommend pink.
Sunforged@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 3d
Changing the symbolism behind working class movements just gives reactionaries something else to steal. Understand the history of why they co-opt symbolism and don't fight a battle that can't be won. It's our color.
velma@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 3d
As long as we aren't knitting pussy hats to wear again.
Even I found that a little embarrassing at the time and I'm one of the biggest feminist killjoys around here.
kreskin@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 3d
Its essentially just a pink knit cap with pussycat ears. Whats not to like? Its not pussy shaped.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/499055300/pussyhat-pussy-hat-political-art-planned
https://www.pussyhatproject.com/
velma@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 3d
Now that’s kinda cute!
hoppeduponcoffee@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 3d
We’re bringing red back to its rightful home. We’re not letting the fascists steal it.
SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world · -20 pts · 3d
When this overly progressive movement falls flat on its face it's going to be the bernie fiasco 2.0 and the progressives are going to blame everything but leftists not getting up to vote for it.
velma@sh.itjust.works · 24 pts · 3d
Most of the Dem Socialists I've seen are way closer to what Democrats used to be before the overton window got shifted so much. They're not overly progressive so much as they're slightly more progressive than current Dems.
Jaysyn@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 3d
Or maybe not. No neo-libs with their fingers on the scale this time.
kreskin@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 3d
You better hope it doesnt because partnering with it is the only way the DNC can get enough votes to win any election ever again.
"Vote blue no matter who" is thoroughly cooked and you dont have a way back through trump that you think you do.
SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world · -1 pts · 3d
It seems to me like you’d want people to vote blue no matter who instead of hoping leftists are able to present a coherent and unified vision of the future because that’s not going to happen.