How or why people feel so entitled to insist that other people have kids is beyond me

393 points · 89 comments · view on lemmy.world

89 Comments

Skyline969@piefed.ca · 64 pts · 21d (40 replies)

My fiancée and I just flatly say we can’t have kids and that shuts most people up.

Never mind the reason why we can’t have kids is because we don’t like them.

some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org · 14 pts · 20d

While we also choose a child-free existence, it wasn't until some close friends had kids that were awesome that I realized I don't dislike kids. I dislike shitty parents.

That said, I can go meet up with people whenever I feel like it. I also have lots more disposable income. It's pretty great if it's what you want anyway.

NostraDavid@programming.dev · -24 pts · 21d (38 replies)
[ removed ]
Diurnambule@jlai.lu · 22 pts · 21d (35 replies)

Why not ? People don't like many thing, they are allowed to not like kid aren't they ?

CannonFodder@lemmy.world · -31 pts · 21d (34 replies)

Well it's because of the notion that the very reason of being alive is to propagate more life. That's the fundamental nature of life because without that there would be no life. So if you think that life is worth while, it would be logical that you contribute. Otherwise it would be somewhat selfish. And such a mentality of not wanting to sacrifice one's freedom in order to be a parent and take on that responsibility comes across as immature.
I don't think you should have kids if you don't want to. I'm just explaining why some people find it bad and upsetting that you don't.

Z745812939054@lemmy.zip · 24 pts · 21d (9 replies)

not having kids = selfish has got to be in the top 5 dumbest arguments i've ever heard, especially considering that kids today and their kids and so on are destined to grow up on a toxic hellscape wasteland planet.

"oh the kids will fix it"

LOL so not having kids = selfish, but having kids so they can fix the problems of the last couple hundred years = generous. got it

and you're confusing "purpose of life" with biological instinct. yes, all living things from bacteria and viruses on up the evolutionary ladder are hardwired to engage in behavior that results in the passing on of their genes. "purpose" is a cognitive construct invented by philosophers who couldn't stand being just animals. there's no formula for it, or even quantifiable evidence that there is such a thing. so my "purpose" is to not have kids

CannonFodder@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 20d (8 replies)

I think it's always seemed like the world was going to hell. It's all relative.
I don't care if you have kids. I don't really care if humans go extinct. I'm happy to be alive so I'm glad my parents wanted to have kids,

baines@lemmy.cafe · 3 pts · 20d

it’s not, that you can’t tell is a personal failing on your par

Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 19d (6 replies)

It's always seemed like the world is going to hell, but now we have 200 years of scientific data to prove that we're making the entirety of the biosphere uninhabitable for the majority of species on the planet, including us.

CannonFodder@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 19d

I grew up in the 80's with threats of imminent nuclear war.

ruby@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 11 pts · 20d (7 replies)

there's billions of people in the world, there's zero impact on whether the humanity will continue or not. being upset at someone for not procreating is silly and having kids just for the sake of propagating life as if people were scarce is ridiculous.

CannonFodder@lemmy.world · -7 pts · 20d (6 replies)

It's just a logical argument such as if everyone decided not to have kids, humans would go extinct pretty quickly. Not that I really care. I'm happy to be alive so I'm glad my parents weren't against having kids.

ruby@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 20d (2 replies)

i get where "if everyone does that then it'd be bad" comes from but it doesn't apply here, if you look around do you realistically see it as a necessity for everyone to have kids to save the humanity from going extinct? if one or few people says that they don't want to procreate, will every single person in the world follow suit? in case that i live my life without having kids, what's the worst that will happen to humanity because of my choice?

i'm also happy to be alive, but i also have reasons why i don't want to have kids and it's not like i'm taking life away from someone with that decision.

CannonFodder@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 20d

All good in my book. Don't have kids if you don't want to. I'm just explaining where the notion comes from.
Sure you not having kids won't cause the population to collapse. But it's a bit the same as you not throwing your garbage in the trash - one person doing that won't make a significant difference.

Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 19d (2 replies)

Humans going extinct would save every other living thing on this planet, lol. Who's selfish now?

CannonFodder@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 19d

There are lots of animals that only live on humans - like these cute little guys (Pthirus pubis)

greenbit@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 20d (1 reply)

Is this a comment from a virus

CannonFodder@lemmy.world · -4 pts · 20d

Yes

kestrel7_7@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 19d (1 reply)

Are asexual people selfish? Are monks who don’t fuck selfish? Are infertile people selfish? Are people who adopt instead of having bio kids selfish? Do none of these people count as “life”? I pronounce you fully ridiculous.

CannonFodder@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 19d

No. Yes. No. No. They all count as life. Yes, I am ridiculous, but not for explaining why people might see those who chose not to have children as selfish.

mojofrododojo@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 20d (4 replies)

I’m just explaining why some people find it bad and upsetting that you don’t.

that's a whole fuckin paragraph to say "they're nosy and entitled" - and it's absolute garbage. " if you think that life is worth while, it would be logical that you contribute. Otherwise it would be somewhat selfish. " utter fucking garbage. only people adding to the population pressure of OVER 8 BILLION FUCKING HUMANS are worth it? everyone else is selfish?

STOP FOR A MOMENT AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

8 BILLION +, AND YOU INSIST THAT MORE ARE NEEDED OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE SOMEWHAT SELFISH?

gotta be a fucking troll

CannonFodder@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 20d (3 replies)

Actually the world population is starting to decline. People have value. I'm not sure what the optimal world population is, but as it goes down it's going to be painful as demographics shift.

Olhonestjim@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 19d

Human population is not declining. The acceleration rate of population increase is decreasing. It's still going ever faster and faster, just a little less faster than we were. And it's still an absolutely staggering, incomprehensible population increase.

And then there's the animal farming to consider. Hey, what happened to the Amazon?

mojofrododojo@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 19d (1 reply)

Actually the world population is starting to decline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_Eight_Billion

You think it's starting to decline, the evidence is remaining to be seen.

Talk to me when we hit 7.5bn and we can start to care.

go away

CannonFodder@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 19d

Well I doubt I'll still be alive when we get back down to 7 billion and are in free fall.
Yes I was wrong when I said population was in decline. The rate of population growth is slowing down, so we can predict a decline starting in like 50 years.

Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 19d (6 replies)

Buddy, I think you came to the wrong comment section.

CannonFodder@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 19d (5 replies)

What, we all need to have carbon copy opinions?

Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 19d (4 replies)

When you dress your stupid opinions up as universal truths, you're gonna get some negative responses.

CannonFodder@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 18d

I suppose that's true. But in this case I didn't really did I? I was explaining how some people think. I can relate to it, but since I don't care if humans go extinct, it's not my mantra.

Skyline969@piefed.ca · 16 pts · 20d (1 reply)

Irrelevant.

NostraDavid@programming.dev · 1 pts · 19d
[ removed ]
victorz@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 21d (4 replies)

She's right in that they are a lot of work, but they're worth it if you want children in the first place.

It's all about what you think the work is worth, I guess. Anything in life that you want, and you need to work for, you do the work if you want it badly enough. Pretty simple.

alsimoneau@lemmy.ca · 15 pts · 21d (1 reply)

But they can't choose to be born. Having children is intrinsically a non-consensual act.

victorz@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 21d

That's not really relevant to the point I'm making but, yeah, it's not a consensual act to have offspring. Nothing that's ever been born has chosen to be born. But countless things have been happy they were.

In the words of Stephen Colbert, "It's a gift to exist."

Obviously quite dependent on circumstances...

Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 19d (1 reply)

also if its financially feasible too.

victorz@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 19d

Definitely a factor indeed. Sadly money is a huge factor deciding whether or not a couple is suitable to have children. 😞

Gonzako@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 21d

I personally want to work for a world where the choice of having an offspring doesn't ruin you financially

Waterpumpee@lemmus.org · 26 pts · 21d (4 replies)

I see that among my wifes friends and i think its the genuine wish to be at a similar stage in life. To do playdates and shit together.

Nastybutler@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 21d (2 replies)

Misery loves company

Waterpumpee@lemmus.org · 8 pts · 21d (1 reply)

Shared suffering is halved suffrring we say haha

Apeman42@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 12d

UnequalExchange@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 4d

.... uhhh I would be genuinely distrurbed if all those parents chose to defecate in unison in a ring... but aye consenting adults can all do what they want so I wish them all fun.

/jk

girlnamedzero@piefed.zeromedia.vip · 23 pts · 21d (5 replies)

I don’t think I’ll ever have kids precisely because of how much work and responsibility they are. But if I ever have a kid, it would not be mine; this world is too fucked up to bring a new person into, I would instead adopt one of the many kids who need a parent

boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 5 pts · 20d (4 replies)

I heard from a social worker that adoption is kinda the easy way. Foster parenting is harder, as you get more difficult cases. In any way, children need good households to grow up in

Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 19d (3 replies)

i think because for adoption, it seen like getting a new puppy/kitten you can mold to your needs, and its mostly toddlers and babies, older children are less likely to get adopted. with a older child, they already have baggage with them, much harder to raise.

boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 19d (2 replies)

Yes, adopting older children is for sure more difficult and important

Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 17d (1 reply)

i think adoption is harder than fostering, you dont have to deal much with the child. but adoption you have to raise it as your own. also if you are going through "official"channels its very difficult.

boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 16d

Interesting debates to be had on state influence.

Like in "Silo" where even natural birth rights were given and taken by authorities with potential for abuse.

I would also argue that the ratio of unsuited parents is significantly smaller in people seeking adoption than in those that just happen to create children in their own.

TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 21d

If they don't know anyone who chose differently, then their choice just cannot have been a mistake

mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 16 pts · 20d (1 reply)

what a shit take by the coworkers

imagine thinking somebody accurately assessing a situation and not wanting to be a shitty parent is disappointing

I've got a lot less respect for shitty parents and people who don't think things through

TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 19d

I've got a lot less respect for shitty parents and people who don't think things through

That's because most people are conformists.

MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 21d

Better to not have kids if you don't love them.

Z745812939054@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 21d (1 reply)

i think that if someone is legit mad because you don't have kids, then it's not that you don't have kids, it's that your extra time and money aren't thrown out the window, and their "it's SoOoOoOo worth it, though!!!" is replied to with "of course it is! drinks after work? no? maybe over the weekend? no? just let us know, i guess..."

NostraDavid@programming.dev · -3 pts · 21d
[ removed ]
speaksintv@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 21d (1 reply)

Let me state first that I LOVE my kids and enjoy every second with them.

That being said, if you realized you don't like having kids after the fact then misery loves company and kids are A LOT of work and expense.

DMck@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 21d

Please, if you realized you don’t like having kids after the fact, do NOT have more after the first! Why so many go on to have more than the one!

blockheadjt@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 21d

It wasn't a loss of respect they sensed, it was envy.

Malyca@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 21d (6 replies)

I think it's a little crazy to bring children into the world as it stands today. I feel really guilty for having my kids, I should have foreseen this.

Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 21d

Even if the world was a much better place, if you don't want kids you shouldn't be a parent. But that's what they want, they want bad parents so they csn act like they're better.

jballs@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 21d (1 reply)

I feel really guilty for having my kids, I should have foreseen this.

In a world full of dragons, raise dragon slayers.

Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 19d

thats why they have the old marines recruiment commercial where you slay a dragon.

AA5B@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 21d
[ removed ]
NostraDavid@programming.dev · 0 pts · 21d (1 reply)
[ removed ]
Diurnambule@jlai.lu · 5 pts · 21d

Yeah we have to plan how to take put billionaires.

Afaithfulnihilist@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 12 pts · 21d (1 reply)

She would probably have to get a second job to support them which means she would never see them and she would be working all the time and miserable.

Having a kid costs so much money it's hard to explain even to my parents one of whom was a grant writer and nonprofit organizer for children's healthcare.

If you don't have at least $50,000 in the bank that you could spend without suffering you're not ready for what the hospital is going to do to you. We have totally fucked this whole country up.

But we need new people here. We don't necessarily need Americans to make them. Plenty of people see what we do here and come here anyway. They are willing and ready to make the kind of sacrifices necessary have another generation of their family, and we generally as a society are benefiting from their ambitions to do that.

I don't understand how so many people can be so pro-birth and anti-human at the same time, but I don't begrudge people who run the numbers and say the math doesn't math and so abstain from having children.

Knoxvomica@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 21d

I need you Americans to understand this clearly, my partner and I have had two kids in a hospital and we paid exactly zero dollars. I mean, philosophically we pay taxes so technically we paid for it, but like, Jesus you guys have it mixed up.

some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org · 10 pts · 20d

I have more respect for that lady than I have for all the people who have kids anyway and then just neglect them.

AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 20d (1 reply)

It's to convince themselves they made the "right" choice by having kids. Because deep down I'm sure there's a part of them that wished they hadn't. And when they see another person who actually chose to not have kids, it only reminds them of a life they didn't get, which upsets them.

Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 19d

its regret, and later contempt or resentment if the child reaches adulthood and they somehow cant leave the house after HS,.

Varesti@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 19d

Misery loves company.

SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org · 6 pts · 19d (1 reply)

I just say the climate is fucked, so having kids is immoral. I can be confrontational as well.

Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 19d

👉😎👉

Alexfire@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 20d

Most people who have children don't know how to do it right and too many are children themselves emotionally/mentally, so they model all the bad behaviors they punish the children for, it's crazy! They punish for natural emotional responses to life events and don't care to understand what's going on, just blame as bad and punish. Enmeshment and other unhealthy, dysfunctional ways they think are normal and good. They do the same unhealthy ways they never questioned and stay in low-level thinking, easier, fit in with others, tradition, "we turned out good enough" they delude themselves.

SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 21d

We need your kids for meat and organs.

TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 19d

From my experience is that most people are conformists. That's why.

warbond@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 21d

Having children puts me in the minority where I work. I'd say maybe 30% have children, but it's never really discussed. I guess I've seen it elsewhere, but I assume this is a social pressure mostly aimed at women.

Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 19d

also puts alot of pressure on woman to have kids, thats why they often get to stay home longer after reaching way past adulthood than if it was a man, apparently its the opposite.

UnequalExchange@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 4d

Based on what Ive been seeing on the news and seeing no change to stop it? Their plans for them involve Epstein type thoughts and actions. (if you know what I mean...)

tacosanonymous@mander.xyz · 1 pts · 21d (1 reply)

I’ve never met a parent irl that didn’t respect my choice.

They always agree with my reasoning and they either say that they really wanted them anyway or that it just happened and they have to deal with it.

Maybe when I was in my twenties there were some weirdos that would say shit like, “they’d be so beautiful”.

Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 19d

seems like a puppy honeymoon phase, they love the puppy when it small or cute, but dont want take care of it once it gets older.

NostraDavid@programming.dev · -10 pts · 21d (7 replies)
[ removed ]
webadict@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 21d (6 replies)

Lmao. Society will be fine with less people. If society needs more people, then they can fucking pay them to have children. Literally, it's that fucking easy. I have friends with three fucking jobs, when would they get to see their kids?

NostraDavid@programming.dev · -5 pts · 21d (5 replies)
[ removed ]
Diurnambule@jlai.lu · 7 pts · 21d (1 reply)

So the option you give is more work or bringing a innocent to the world to make them work in hell... Yeah clearly a visionary

NostraDavid@programming.dev · 1 pts · 19d
[ removed ]
webadict@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 20d (2 replies)

No no no. I didn't say pay people more, though that would help.

Pay people to have and raise children. Having children is work, and if it is integral to society, it should be paid. Reproductive labor (i.e. the labor used to replace the workforce) is currently unpaid, which isn't particularly crazy given that we always undervalue it, like education and childcare. Pay people for their labor.

But, as for your last question, how about rich people? Those motherfuckers got an endless supply of money, why don't they pay the fuck up?

NostraDavid@programming.dev · 0 pts · 19d (1 reply)
[ removed ]
webadict@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 19d

Cool, so why do we need to have children in that case? I don't see any reasons in there to maintain current levels of population, even if the rich were paying their fair share, which they're not.

It just sounds like you think we need more children to feed to the machine, and I disagree.