If i may. Read up on the idea and practises of Kurt Eisner. The bavarian socialist who ALMOST realized a full (democratic) socialist state. If only the social democrats wouldnt have betrailed the workers, as they always do/did
Arresting Pedophiles is SOCIALISM! Affordable groceries is SOCIALISM! Healthcare is SOCIALISM! NO Data Centers is SOCIALISM! Feeding starving children is SOCIALISM! Defunding ICE is SOCIALISM! Taxing Illegal Immigrant Elon Musk is SOCIALISM!
I’m referring to something I read last month, iirc, I saw that the magats were planning on attacking their opponents with saying their policies are “communism” because polls have shown that Americans aren’t really alarmed by them saying “socialism” anymore.
It’s really nice hearing that though, it’s showing that more and more people are getting more open-minded to listening to an alternative to the cesspit of capitalism
But democratic socialism is a mode of governance, meanwhile capitalism is a mode of economics. You can have both at the same time, so this (popular) take is still as confusing for me as it’s always been.
Capitalism sucks as an economic system, what’s confusing about that? I didn’t say it was a mode of governance but it is something that is very much apart of our daily lives. Although I don’t think you’re commenting in sincerity.
I asked a basic question. I would identify as some flavor of socialist. I’m definitely being sincere. Let me try to be more clear using references.
It’s really nice hearing that though, it’s showing that more and more people are getting more open-minded to listening to an alternative to the cesspit of capitalism
You claim socialism is an alternative to capitalism, did I catch that right?
Again, socialism is a mode of governance. Capitalism is a mode of economics. You can have both. They are not alternatives in my view.
How is that supposedly asking a question in bad faith? That comes across like a priest telling me I can’t ask why god let my mom die of cancer.
I apologize if my questions are inconvenient. They are not insincere, though.
Socialism is when the means of production and distribution of goods or services are owned collectively or by a centralized government. I think either would be better than capitalism, but youre probably only thinking of the latter. Collective and government control can also take different forms.
Parks, libraries, public schools, fire departments, postal service, public infrastructure, public transportation, social security, etc are centralized government controlled socialist ideas "owned" by the people. Cooperatives are independent, stateless market socialism, owned by its members/workers and democratically controlled. I think its pretty easy to see how cooperatives are a direct alternative to capitalism and involve the economy and markets, but there's more a centralized government can do too. Namely nationalization of industries like oil/gas, railways, airlines, telecommunications, electric power, media, banks, housing etc. Which all also involve the economy and can be democratically controlled.
Capitalism is, succinctly, about how having capital allows an individual to increase their capital, and allows wealthy individuals to accumulate more and more wealth.
more people are getting more open-minded to listening to an alternative to the cesspit of capitalism
More people are getting more open minded to an alternative (being democratic socialism) to capitalism?
That just doesn’t make much sense. That’s what I’m getting at… so I’m asking you, what are you getting at? Do you have a misunderstanding about the relationship democratic socialism has with capitalism? Because they don’t come across as mutually exclusive “alternatives” to me, so what exactly would people be getting more open-minded to? Misinformation? That’s really going to suck if we get a DSA president and everyone expects capitalism to be gone.
So if you wouldn’t mind helping me understand, I would appreciate it. I’m not trying to attack you and I certainly am not commenting on bad faith. I’d like something confusing to be cleared up. I’ve seen Democratic Socialism paraded around as an alternative to Capitalism quite a bit… yet I still haven’t seen it justified as an “alternative,” as though it replaces capitalism.
From my view, democratic socialism might govern capitalism to ensure capital value is withheld by the working class. That’s a governance adjustment, not a change in economic practice. Capital still gets produced via labor, which would remain the basis of the economy.
This is in sharp contrast to something like Communism, which is a claim on both governance and economics — because it’s an effective alteration to class structure.
It's scary to people still drinking the kool-aid, and there are millions of them. Communism and socialism are in desperate need of a rebrand, because it doesn't help that the examples in history were also hardcore authoritarian dictatorships.
GOP politics is just socialism only for the 1%. They'll bail out an air conditioner company cuz they're "too big to fail" (even though they're big and they did fail), but they won't bail out the future of America by canceling student debt. The companies can take our money; that socialism is fine. Oh but grandma needs chemo? That's bad socialism!
Americans, you have to take the chance that what you understand as socialism, really isn't what it is. Do your own research, by way of electoral experimentation. Vote for the most socialist candidate and follow them across their term in office, see for yourself what a socialist does instead of relying on media to tell youthat.
"do your own research" is a phrase that has been misused by internet conspiracy theorists so much it is painful to read by now. it is not something you tell to someone you want to convince about anything. it is what your uncle says when he wants to shut you up about telling him that government is not made up of lizard people or what fox news repeats when they want to condition you to thinking rhat billionaire tax is a bad idea...
33 Comments
NinePeedles@sh.itjust.works · 59 pts · 1d
Cool. I'll take socialism.
jontree255@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 1d
“Electoral headwinds” is a funny way to describe being so unpopular people want you dead.
Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 1d
Has someone braught up the question whether guillotines are instruments yet? If not. I shall test this thesis out in an overture! The 2012 overture
village604@adultswim.fan · 1 pts · 1d
I think a canon would be just as effective without needing to update the composition.
grte@lemmy.ca · 32 pts · 1d
Hmmmm....
A) Democratize the workplace
or
B) Connected billionaires kidnap your child and rape them.
I think I'll have a look through door A, thanks.
Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 1d
If i may. Read up on the idea and practises of Kurt Eisner. The bavarian socialist who ALMOST realized a full (democratic) socialist state. If only the social democrats wouldnt have betrailed the workers, as they always do/did
crazyslinkz@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 8h
I wish it were that easy, but alas a lot of stupid fucks don't see it like that.
BigMacHole@thelemmy.club · 26 pts · 1d
Arresting Pedophiles is SOCIALISM! Affordable groceries is SOCIALISM! Healthcare is SOCIALISM! NO Data Centers is SOCIALISM! Feeding starving children is SOCIALISM! Defunding ICE is SOCIALISM! Taxing Illegal Immigrant Elon Musk is SOCIALISM!
-LITERALLY Republicans!
QueenHawlSera@piefed.social · 9 pts · 1d
Nothing sold me on socialism quite as effectively as Republicans claiming anything that could improve my life was socialism.
Amuro_eat@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 15 pts · 1d
I thought they were going to frame it as “communism” cos “socialism” isn’t alarming people anymore
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 14 pts · 1d
Communism isn't really all that scary anymore.
All the horrible features we were told about USSR are happening here.
Amuro_eat@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 1d
I’m referring to something I read last month, iirc, I saw that the magats were planning on attacking their opponents with saying their policies are “communism” because polls have shown that Americans aren’t really alarmed by them saying “socialism” anymore.
It’s really nice hearing that though, it’s showing that more and more people are getting more open-minded to listening to an alternative to the cesspit of capitalism
partofthevoice@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 1d
But democratic socialism is a mode of governance, meanwhile capitalism is a mode of economics. You can have both at the same time, so this (popular) take is still as confusing for me as it’s always been.
Amuro_eat@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 15h
Capitalism sucks as an economic system, what’s confusing about that? I didn’t say it was a mode of governance but it is something that is very much apart of our daily lives. Although I don’t think you’re commenting in sincerity.
partofthevoice@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 8h
I asked a basic question. I would identify as some flavor of socialist. I’m definitely being sincere. Let me try to be more clear using references.
You claim socialism is an alternative to capitalism, did I catch that right?
Again, socialism is a mode of governance. Capitalism is a mode of economics. You can have both. They are not alternatives in my view.
How is that supposedly asking a question in bad faith? That comes across like a priest telling me I can’t ask why god let my mom die of cancer.
I apologize if my questions are inconvenient. They are not insincere, though.
save_the_humans@leminal.space · 1 pts · 7h
Socialism is when the means of production and distribution of goods or services are owned collectively or by a centralized government. I think either would be better than capitalism, but youre probably only thinking of the latter. Collective and government control can also take different forms.
Parks, libraries, public schools, fire departments, postal service, public infrastructure, public transportation, social security, etc are centralized government controlled socialist ideas "owned" by the people. Cooperatives are independent, stateless market socialism, owned by its members/workers and democratically controlled. I think its pretty easy to see how cooperatives are a direct alternative to capitalism and involve the economy and markets, but there's more a centralized government can do too. Namely nationalization of industries like oil/gas, railways, airlines, telecommunications, electric power, media, banks, housing etc. Which all also involve the economy and can be democratically controlled.
Capitalism is, succinctly, about how having capital allows an individual to increase their capital, and allows wealthy individuals to accumulate more and more wealth.
Amuro_eat@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 0 pts · 8h
I explained perfectly fine what I meant
partofthevoice@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 2h
So then regarding this:
More people are getting more open minded to an alternative (being democratic socialism) to capitalism?
That just doesn’t make much sense. That’s what I’m getting at… so I’m asking you, what are you getting at? Do you have a misunderstanding about the relationship democratic socialism has with capitalism? Because they don’t come across as mutually exclusive “alternatives” to me, so what exactly would people be getting more open-minded to? Misinformation? That’s really going to suck if we get a DSA president and everyone expects capitalism to be gone.
So if you wouldn’t mind helping me understand, I would appreciate it. I’m not trying to attack you and I certainly am not commenting on bad faith. I’d like something confusing to be cleared up. I’ve seen Democratic Socialism paraded around as an alternative to Capitalism quite a bit… yet I still haven’t seen it justified as an “alternative,” as though it replaces capitalism.
From my view, democratic socialism might govern capitalism to ensure capital value is withheld by the working class. That’s a governance adjustment, not a change in economic practice. Capital still gets produced via labor, which would remain the basis of the economy.
This is in sharp contrast to something like Communism, which is a claim on both governance and economics — because it’s an effective alteration to class structure.
birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 1d
Lol, council/anarchist communism would be great too. Democratic market socialism as well.
village604@adultswim.fan · 1 pts · 1d
It's scary to people still drinking the kool-aid, and there are millions of them. Communism and socialism are in desperate need of a rebrand, because it doesn't help that the examples in history were also hardcore authoritarian dictatorships.
Nikki@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 11 pts · 1d
i am joining the fight against socialism on the side of socialism
MasterNerd@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 1d
I'm joining the war against socialism on the side of socialism
sartalon@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 1d
Fine, it's socialism versus autocratic fascism, with a bunch of oligarchs thrown in.
Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 1d
Aaaah so the soviet union in the 1920s. Lovely /j
OldChicoAle@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 1d
GOP politics is just socialism only for the 1%. They'll bail out an air conditioner company cuz they're "too big to fail" (even though they're big and they did fail), but they won't bail out the future of America by canceling student debt. The companies can take our money; that socialism is fine. Oh but grandma needs chemo? That's bad socialism!
el_twitto@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 12h
Shut up, couch fucker.
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
For once, it is coming closer to true than ever before when they have made this exact same claim. It is a self-fulfilling prophesy now.
minorkeys@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 1d
Americans, you have to take the chance that what you understand as socialism, really isn't what it is. Do your own research, by way of electoral experimentation. Vote for the most socialist candidate and follow them across their term in office, see for yourself what a socialist does instead of relying on media to tell youthat.
grepe@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 15h
"do your own research" is a phrase that has been misused by internet conspiracy theorists so much it is painful to read by now. it is not something you tell to someone you want to convince about anything. it is what your uncle says when he wants to shut you up about telling him that government is not made up of lizard people or what fox news repeats when they want to condition you to thinking rhat billionaire tax is a bad idea...
ThunderComplex@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 11h
Yeah this is a trigger phrase for me. I don’t think you can use it without sounding malicious even if unintentionally
Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 8h
Socialism sounds pretty damn good to me.
Marthirial@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
Jokes on you couch-fucking daemon. I'll go harvest corn instead of this shit we have now.
theacharnian@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 1d
So you are saying there is a chance.