c/technology · by cypherpunks@lemmy.ml · 2y

"REM sleep is the next AI"

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/19628702

::: spoiler image transcript screenshot of this bluesky post (which you can read without logging in here) from ‪@comraderobot.bsky.social‬ ("Notorious RBMK") saying:

my friend who still lives in palo alto gave me permission to share this mailer he got.

there’s unhinged and then there’s tech unhinged

image in post has two photos of people wearing EEG electrodes, one xray of a human head, an EEG data plot over a silhouette of a head, and this text:

REM sleep is the next Al

The upcoming era of physical reality integrated with dream worlds advanced by the REMspace startup

Controlling a smart home from dreams

Transferring speech from dreams

Controlling virtual cars from dreams

Interacting with dream worlds using brain implants

Social media for sharing dream journals

Smart sleep masks powered by Al

Many other breakthroughs from our lab (videos and tech)

Don't miss the pitch of the year for potential partners and investors

Aug 29th Palo Alto

Above the image is an (inaccurate) BlueSky label saying "Possible tumblr screenshot" with a "hide" button.

:::

--

the guy behind this startup:

(CW bloody photos) "I confirm the information published in the Daily Mail. On May 17, 2023, I performed by myself trepanation, electrode implantation, and electrical stimulation of my brain's motor cortex. I needed it to test brain stimulation during lucid dreaming"

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-implants-chip-brain-control-dreams-hospital-1814256

427 points · 85 comments · view on lemmy.world

85 Comments

narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee · 89 pts · 2y (20 replies)

Even if all of that worked, why would I want it?

SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 108 pts · 2y (5 replies)

You don't want it.

But the people who can put ads on your dreams want it.

schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business · 43 pts · 2y

Man, Futurama was shockingly prescient, wasn't it.

wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 22 pts · 2y

Does anyone else remember Microsoft's amazingly tone deaf slide deck about how integrating their systems and making thing seamless across multiple platforms including mobile phones and laptops would allow people to work during any/every spare moment in their lives, like while commuting?

Businesses want to own every moment of your life not strictly required for continued existence. If they can normalize using sleep time for extra "passive" income by using your dream power or by just renting out "spare" brain computation power, they will.

xavier666@lemm.ee · 8 pts · 2y (2 replies)

CEO: "Did you know that people can do basic work during REM? And they won't even feel like they have worked after waking up. We can boost employee productivity by 40%!!"

jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 2y (1 reply)

So I can spend less time at work??

xavier666@lemm.ee · 11 pts · 2y

CEO: "Umm...next question please"

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 2y (1 reply)

Hustle mindset. 25/8 work ethic, baby. It is actually incredibly cool and fun to be a cog in the corporate machine. Liberty! Whiskey! Sexy! They're giving out the good soma when you work in the Dream Mines, baby! Get with the program!

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org · -1 pts · 2y

[ removed ]

Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 2y (8 replies)

You really don't have any interest in controlling virtual cars with your dreams? That alone has me signing up as an investor.

Ebby@lemmy.ssba.com · 35 pts · 2y (4 replies)

I sort of already do. It's called dreaming about driving a car.

I think these folks forgot that random dreams play an important role in information processing. I'd rather not mess with that too much.

Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 2y (3 replies)

I heard that their tech will lower the virtual carbon footprint of the car you are dreaming about driving.

ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 2y (2 replies)

Matthew McConaughey is driving and he won't shutup about wanting to fuck a Lincoln.

Ebby@lemmy.ssba.com · 2 pts · 2y

"Who am I?"

"Why am I here?"

"When I'm done rolling up this booger, should I eat it or throw it out the window?"

Linky

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org · 1 pts · 2y

[ removed ]

cypherpunks@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 2y (1 reply)

i hope you're joking but if you're not i assume you live in the bay area? if you want to go to their pitch tonight, here's its eventbrite.

Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 2y

Putting that in my virtual gps

palordrolap@fedia.io · 11 pts · 2y

Yeah, that'll go great when the car is suddenly driving 14 miles down the driveway of the house I lived at as a child - a driveway that is walkable in less than a minute - before entering the garage which is a large house that slightly resembles a place I used to work and has a view over a clock tower that may or may not be larger when you look at it from a different angle and I think I'll nap in this bed that's here.

Now tell me: Where is the car relative to its position when that five-second-long dream sequence began, and will that pedestrian ever walk again?

Grimy@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 2y (2 replies)

Interactive dream worlds is essentially full dive vr. I guess you could just not use it, and while you're dreaming about losing your teeth, I'll be living through whatever movie I picked before going to bed.

wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 11 pts · 2y (1 reply)

Expecting any part of the brain to work that simply is foolish. We already know that REM sleep does a lot of the lifting for forming long term memories and processing complex input from your waking hours. Not to mention the importance of it for actual rest/recharging so you aren't an exhausted zombie all the time.

Sounds like a wonderful idea to just fuck around with that.

boonhet@lemm.ee · 7 pts · 2y

There's a saying in my language that roughly translates to "the morning is wiser than the evening" in English. I believe in English it's common to say "sleep on it" for tough decisions.

I often wake up and come up with a solution to my toughest problems from the previous day. My REM sleep brain is already keeping me gainfully employed.

No idea why anyone would want to fuck with this. It's awesome.

Jordan117@lemmy.world · 51 pts · 2y (5 replies)

Tbh, if it were possible to record dreams or reliably trigger vivid lucid dreams, that could be one of the most significant breakthroughs in the history of art, recreation, and psychology. The fact that some startup is trying to grift on the idea with IoT/gig economy bullshit doesn't change that.

asexualchangeling@lemmy.ml · 19 pts · 2y (2 replies)

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Plopp@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 2y (1 reply)

In the interest of fairness every citizen should have their own mandatory public dream channel on DreamTube.

Shit wait that'll lead to some people becoming popular DreamTubers. Oh no, Dreamfluencer will become a thing. Quick, burn that timeline to the ground!

JaddedFauceet@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y

Now we need to port uBlockOrigin and SponsorBlock to work with DreamTube, gonna be able to skip ads in my dream

mojofrododojo@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 2y

if it were possible to record dreams

mmmm.... this is gonna destroy a whole lotta marriages. My wife knows I'm scum so I'll probably be ok.

EngineerGaming@feddit.nl · 5 pts · 2y

[ removed ]

boonhet@lemm.ee · 38 pts · 2y (2 replies)

I saw the tagline and thought it meant that REM sleep is the next big thing people invest in because sleep is good for your health so they're selling solutions to boost your sleep quality

Boy was I wrong

ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 2y (1 reply)

Please Choose Your 8-Hour Ad Experience to Continue Your Free-Tier Dream

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org · 2 pts · 2y

[ removed ]

nilclass@discuss.tchncs.de · 35 pts · 2y (6 replies)

Oh, so they can't get autonomous driving to work, thus the next step is to get people who are sleeping to steer the cars remotely

Opisek@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 2y (5 replies)

But do I get paid for that?

thesporkeffect@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 2y (3 replies)

They're going to ender's game you. It'll be pitched as a game or training and it'll come out it was real cars

Opisek@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 2y (2 replies)

I will totally abide by all traffic rules when playing a virtual reality driving game in my sleep. Nothing can go wrong there.

greybeard@lemmy.one · 7 pts · 2y

Well, in the case of Ender's Game, that was the point. Trick kids into thinking they were playing a game and they wouldn't think twice about being as brutal as necessary to win. So if your goal is to have cars murder people, having people control them with their dreams is a pretty good idea.

EngineerGaming@feddit.nl · 3 pts · 2y

[ removed ]

krysel@lemmy.ml · 4 pts · 2y

Barely

recklessengagement@lemmy.world · 34 pts · 2y (11 replies)

This is just the game "Hypnospace Outlaw"

call_me_xale@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 2y (5 replies)

Or the original plot of The Matrix, before the studio execs decided audiences were too stupid.

SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 2y (4 replies)

I mean, to be fair, they were.

What started as an allegory for the path of a trans person realizing they're trans and taking "the red pill" to find the reality of their world and escape "the Matrix" that forces them into a confined box in which they don't actually fit...

...turned into the dumbest bro'd out bullshit from people who think the "red pill" means you're the strongest smartest man who is has figured out society and you're a superman like Neo who can fly and shit.

Honestly, I'm on the side of executives on this one. Most people are too fucking stupid for it.

kinkles@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 2y (3 replies)

From what I’ve read, The Matrix wasn’t created as a trans allegory, it’s just that you can apply the fundamentals of its story to many concepts. One of the most popular interpretations happens to be gender identity because its creators transitioned years after the original trilogy ended.

SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · -1 pts · 2y (2 replies)

Part of the script that got cut by Hollywood was literally Switch being a different gender inside the Matrix and outside.

That's literally why they were originally named "Switch." Switch is in the original film and dies in the original film. Not the sequels.

But sure, not a trans allegory.

The part that gets said is a "trans allegory" but isn't is the red pill as a stand-in for estrogen.

kinkles@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 2y (1 reply)

I went back and looked at the articles I had read and dug a little deeper to get to an interview with Lilly Wachowski herself:

Continuing on The Matrix**, you confirmed a couple years ago that it was a trans allegory —**

No, I didn’t.

You didn’t? Tell me more.

Yeah, so that came from an interview I did for Disclosure. They had a bunch of Matrixquestions. And the question they asked me was about Switch, who was originally written as a trans character who was male in the real world and female in the matrix. And they took that response and attached the question that everyone now references that it’s a trans allegory. And so it was slightly out of context, but I don’t sit here and put a stink up about it, because it is a trans allegory in that it was written by two closeted trans women. And so all of the things that are in it are super-duper trans. The idea of transformation, even the whole “My name is Neo, Mr. Anderson —” that idea of claiming identity, it’s undeniable.

https://www.them.us/story/lilly-wachowski-mentoring-the-matrix-interview

To be honest, her statement doesn’t seem like either a denial or confirmation to me so 🤷‍♂️

SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 2y

Yeah, it sounds to me like she has issue with just that specific thing being treated as a trans allegory rather than the whole thing, the film, The Matrix, itself, as trans allegory as a whole, and the idea that it was purposeful rather than happenstance.

It sounds more like "we were closeted at the time, and we unconsciously were putting in trans allegories to our own paths and ideas" which still means its trans allegory, even if it was unintentional at the time, because they still hadn't "come out" to even themselves yet.

And so all of the things that are in it are super-duper trans. The idea of transformation, even the whole “My name is Neo, Mr. Anderson —” that idea of claiming identity, it’s undeniable.

In other words, it's undeniably trans allegory, but perhaps that wasn't consciously on their mind at the time they wrote it.

Thanks for the link, I hadn't read that one. Definitely clears it up a little.

ReynT1me@lemmy.one · 10 pts · 2y

Everyone needs to be warned about the danger of Beefbrain

watersnipje@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 9 pts · 2y (2 replies)

Glad to see I’m not the only person on earth who has played it. Such a remarkable, funny and weird game. Still trying to get that damned Seepage song out of my head.

BlindFrog@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y (1 reply)

PROFESSOR HELPER HERE! READY TO HELP!

watersnipje@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 2y

That was one of the (many) things that mad me go “Yes! That’s what it was like! That’s what the internet was really like in 1999!” And those download accelerators, which we then recklessly installed on the family computer and gave it virusses.

MossyFeathers@pawb.social · 1 pts · 2y

I just hope the devs are more competent and don't [spoilers].

jewbacca117@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 2y (1 reply)

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russjr08@bitforged.space · 2 pts · 2y

Good god, I was finally prescribed Ambien for the first time recently, and I definitely now realize why it has the reputation that it does.

crusa187@lemmy.ml · 21 pts · 2y

SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 19 pts · 2y (2 replies)

I guess people with mind blindness or blurry minds will be fucked out of luck on this tech, huh?

todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee · 9 pts · 2y (1 reply)

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SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 2y

I mean, I know it doesn't mean you're brain damaged. I just am bad at visualizing things in my own head. I'm like at a number 3 here myself.

So I wouldn't think external technology would suddenly make your brain better at internal visualization. Like, I am really great at abstractions in my head for things that don't really have visual components. On the flip side, when I've had lucid dreams, the scenery and people are always wavy and indistinct. I really just meant this technology sounds bogus because it can't make our brains better at visualizing physical things.

Please forgive me if it sounded like I meant I thought people experiencing aphantasia were brain damaged, they most certainly are not.

therealjcdenton@lemmy.zip · 18 pts · 2y

HypnOS 2025 looks insane

Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 2y (1 reply)

Yeah, I totally want a copy of the dream I had last night where someone stole my motor scooter and I was chasing them around a parking lot

Tangent5280@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 2y

There's a free tier, which means the dream is same but there are billboards all around the parking lot

conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 2y (1 reply)

They know that sleep isn't wasted time, right?

Your brain uses sleep and dreams to integrate memories and learning.

trigonated@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 2y

For your boss it is. You're not making them money.

Thrife@feddit.org · 13 pts · 2y

Oh nice, I can control my smart home by dreams?

Me: *sleeps Coffee machine starts making coffee. Me: *sleeps

Can't wait!

Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 12 pts · 2y (2 replies)

Possible Tumblr screenshot

What? Why does that need a special notice? Why is that relevant at all?

cypherpunks@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 2y (1 reply)

That label is there because I'm subscribed to XBlock Screenshot Labeller and it misclassified this image. (You can find here and here more info about how labelers in ATP work...)

Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 2y

Ahh I didn't realise this isn't twitter, I thought musk must have some weird thing against tumblr or something :)

Naich@lemmings.world · 11 pts · 2y

Jesus, that's some real desperate idiots there.

Hazzia@infosec.pub · 11 pts · 2y (2 replies)

These guys are so behind the curve. I've already interacted with Dream worlds countless times using this little-known hack called "dreaming." Look it up, you won't be disappointed.

MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 2y (1 reply)

Nah, that's "lucid dreaming". Children do that often and generally unlearn it while growing up. Grownups usually forget what they dreamt and have no influence on the dream. But ld can be trained.

Hazzia@infosec.pub · 3 pts · 2y

You're still interacting with the dream world in regular dreaming, just without relizing it's a dream.

I actually prefer that, way more immersive, though the script writers are def hit-or-miss

tias@discuss.tchncs.de · 10 pts · 2y

This has to be a joke

s_s@lemm.ee · 9 pts · 2y (1 reply)

Better sleep would actually improve people's lives rather than just making it worse.

Maggoty@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2y

I'm sorry but your sleep subscription level does not support Ad-Free Sleep^tm . If you feel you've reached this message in error can reach our customer service team during your next allotted REM period.

Our records also show 3 unauthorized attempts to enter REM in the last week. Please remember to pay your unauthorized REM fees or we may have to block REM functionality.

Vanth@reddthat.com · 9 pts · 2y

So will people pay to have Nicolas Cage in their dreams, or will they pay to not have him in their dreams?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Scenario

OhmsLawn@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 2y (3 replies)

It just occurred to me how similar AI images are to dreams, always related to the prompt, but never quite how a conscious brain would imagine it. All the weird, illegible text, the grotesque bodies, etc. really do match up fairly well with unconsciousness.

CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2y

I always find text in dreams perfectly legible though it often changes if I try to read the same bit twice.

Tixanou@lemm.ee · 1 pts · 2y (1 reply)

[ removed ]

daddy32@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2y

They were also "sold" or described as such when google showcased their first generation years ago.

fiend_unpleasant@piefed.social · 8 pts · 2y

I want to upvote the warning and downvote it contents

Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee · 7 pts · 2y (1 reply)

The last thing I want to dream about is tweaking a thermostat.

TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org · 1 pts · 2y

What if your feet are glued to the floor? And no matter which way you set it, it keeps getting hotter? Then you start floating while a shadowy figure sits on your chest as you're unable to move and scream a silent scream...

PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 2y

I have all ready seen total recall

chwilson@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 2y (1 reply)

Dream Scenario (2023)

upandatom@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2y

That movie couldve been so much more...

Etterra@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 2y (1 reply)

Can I save a copy of a bout of night terrors I had? I want to be able to relieve that on loop until I'm dead inside.

JoeKrogan@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2y

You need to have the premium subscription for that

echodot@feddit.uk · 5 pts · 2y

Make the Inception device or I'm not interested.