In a written decision, Judge Gregory Carro said that although there is no doubt that the killing was not an ordinary street crime, New York law doesn’t consider something terrorism simply because it was motivated by ideology.
“While the defendant was clearly expressing an animus toward UHC, and the health care industry generally, it does not follow that his goal was to ‘intimidate and coerce a civilian population,’ and indeed, there was no evidence presented of such a goal,” Carro wrote.
Hope the rest of the trial goes with as much sense as this
I mean it's super super tenuous that he did it in the first place. Again they ethier got him through illegal means or just framed a guy and both feel equally likely in this case with how hard the prosecution keeps dropping the ball.
That is not how I read it. If he had shot and left a note saying "fuck billionaires" or "fuck CEOs" then it would be terrorism because he would be threatening them. But his problem was just this guy. It was plain murder / revenge.
The internet made him a champion of "anti billionaires" against his will
Yep. Maybe this is irelevant to US law, but I'm in Romania (European Union member) at the moment and here discriminating against someone based on wealth (wealthy/poor) is a hate crime (as is discriminating based on gender, age, orientation, etc). So at the most it'd be a hate crime. The terrorism charges were politically motivated.
An even more convincing engraving would've been something like "The working class is finally coming for the billionaires. None of you are safe." or similar.
Before we go giving the legal system a pat on the back for that, that's not really what's happening. The law is written with a high level of provable intent in mind, and that's the only way it could possibly pass 1st Amendment muster. It's really, really hard to prove anyone intended to intimidate anyone.
"“Counts 1 and 2, charging defendant with Murder in the First Degree (in furtherance of an act of terrorism) and Murder in the Second Degree as a Crime of Terrorism, are dismissed as legally insufficient,” Carro wrote. “The People presented legally sufficient evidence of all other counts, including Murder in the Second Degree (intentional).”"
They didn't just toss the terrorism addendum, they tossed two of the murder charges with the terrorism rider.
I believe Luigi is the killer, and he should be regarded as a hero. The slaying of Brian Thompson was a honorable and heroic act.
Killing a man who did the evil and destructive work of Healthcare CEO has literally saved the lives of hundreds or maybe even thoudands of United Health customers who would have had their lifesaving care denied.
If you are lucky enough to be chosen for jury duty, please study Jury Nullification
'I believe in the letter of the law laid out by our true and just government. Also every social media post I ever made was just a shit post and I have matured as an adult last week.'
If you say the words "jury nullification" before you're selected, you'll 100% be disqualified. If you say it after you're selected... you'll probably still be disqualified. There's really no reason at all to say those words anywhere near an actual jury. But you can explain the idea, carefully, and maybe not too explicitly.
A jury is the final arbiter of the law. If you decide that throwing a sandwich does not constitute assault, then it's not assault.
They need to link to your social media posts to YOU. My Lemmy accounts are made with temporary emails. In fact, I stopped using reusable emails unless I absolutely have to. Also I was active on facebook (I only made a facebook account because of the pestering of my family many years ago. But I didn't use it much until years later... and even then, just for a few years, and then I stopped. I stopped using it for a long ass time. I have yet to delete my account though). There was that dumb trend online of many people using their real identities, which I kinda fell for until I realized how colossally stupid it was.
Basically if I had to conceal my lemmy posts (which is my main online social media) I just need to delete my cache and cookies and there is no way for them to find them on my phone or my other computers for them to search. I can deny ever having made any post and there is not a damn thing they can do about it. Even if they somehow want full records from ISP (and I use a VPN) I can just say I read everything and never posted.
Protonmail and tutamail are two examples that immediately come to mind. There are also some darknet emails that can be used to send and receive clearnet emails, but you will need tor network to access them
they are going to take a while in voir dire, probably going through hundreds juror at a time to see if any of them already havnt been consuming news of luigis arrest. it takes Hours to even go through 12 plus 3-6 alternates.( i was recently in JD and we sat there for like the whole day just doing it in the west.(like 7+hrs)
Acquittal is what happens when all twelve jurors vote "not guilty".
Conviction is what happens when all twelve jurors vote "guilty".
A hung jury is what happens when at least one of the jurors votes differently from the others.
Jury nullification is when the jury votes to acquit despite the obviousness of the guilt of the accused. It is not the best option. The best option is for the jury to acquit based on the fact that the evidence is honestly shit.
Though jurors are never required to disclose the reasons for their vote. Any one juror who votes "not guilty" and refuses to budge from that position despite the others voting "guilty" will cause a hung jury and prevent the accused from being convicted.
Hence, it takes twelve (unanimous agreement of all jurors) to hang the accused, and it also takes twelve to acquit them, but any single juror can choose to hang the jury by obstinately voting against the others.
I believe a CEO was murdered but I've seen zero evidence it was Luigi and all evidence points to another man of different height and build. Law enforcement and prosecution haven't even established that Luigi was even in the city, the photo used to identify him was proven to be 3 weeks olds at the time of the shooting.
If Luigi was the killer then he has 2 sets of clothes that look remarkably similar but distinctly different. Bit strange to commit murder in one outfit then continue to wear a similar outfit in public.
In a written decision released as Mangione appeared in court, Judge Gregory Carro said that although there is no doubt that the killing was not an ordinary street crime, New York law doesn’t consider something terrorism simply because it was motivated by ideology.
Obviously...
They say killing anyone wealthy is terrorism, because they don't think fonus as real people.
The cops have totally botched this case. No piece of evidence is not tainted, and that perp walk is enough to bias any jury. He should be let free (for a myriad of reasons).
I don't doubt they have evidence that irrefutably proves he's the shooter...
The issue has always been legally admissible evidence.
I think they broke a shit ton of laws to find out who did it, then failed to retroactively create a "partel investigation" that would have legally uncovered the evidence so it could be used anyway.
Like, that's pretty normal for cops. They break laws to solve a crime, make up some bullshit about how they'd have found it anyways, then overcharge to get a plea deal and avoid trial.
Luigi ain't taking a plea deal, and while they may very well know it's him, they can't prove it in court
The whole thing is bullshit tho. When you already know where you'll find evidence, it's easy to justify after the fact how you could have legally been able to search that one place.
But they can't narrow it down to that spot except by violating civil rights.
I do doubt they have evidence he is the shooter. Just the footage taken at the scene has details that don't match with Luigi at all. He was in the area since the image from the hostel is very likely him, but just being in the general vicinity isn't enough to convict.
If you think the US government can't tell who was on a street at a certain time and then search everyone's cell phones and track where they've been to narrow it down to a very small number of people...
Like
I dunno what to tell you.
The sun also rises each morning and sets at night. And Tuesdays usually follow Mondays.
You are greatly overestimating the diligence of the police. All they care about is finding anyone to pin it on. They're not doing all that work when they can frame a patsy much more easily.
This isn't a random crime they don't care about...
A wealthy CEO was killed.
This honestly isn't that difficult to figure out why it's different. But I feel like you've put zero logical thought into your multitude of strong opinions about this.
All the more reason to pin the blame on anyone they can as quickly as they can. You don't want the plebeian masses getting the idea that their masters are vulnerable.
79 Comments
Stamau123@lemmy.world · 359 pts · 348d
Hope the rest of the trial goes with as much sense as this
TachyonTele@piefed.social · 180 pts · 348d
That's huge. That was a big charge and the prosecutors really wanted it.
Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world · 89 pts · 348d
Hell yes. Now the guy just has to keep them from proving he did it. Honestly feels doable
Blackfeathr@lemmy.world · 71 pts · 348d
I for one was marathoning Mario Party with him that morning. All the best people are saying it!
TachyonTele@piefed.social · 25 pts · 348d
That's a great idea. Mario Kart drive me to freedom
scintilla@crust.piefed.social · 26 pts · 347d
I mean it's super super tenuous that he did it in the first place. Again they ethier got him through illegal means or just framed a guy and both feel equally likely in this case with how hard the prosecution keeps dropping the ball.
Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 347d
It's been fishy from the start.
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 45 pts · 348d
I understand why they tried to throw those charges in, but I don’t like the inconsistency of doing so.
I agree this is a sensible outcome.
Serinus@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 347d
Because the Justice department is being run by headlines and idiots.
boheme@quokk.au · 38 pts · 348d
notarobot@lemmy.zip · 28 pts · 348d
That is not how I read it. If he had shot and left a note saying "fuck billionaires" or "fuck CEOs" then it would be terrorism because he would be threatening them. But his problem was just this guy. It was plain murder / revenge.
The internet made him a champion of "anti billionaires" against his will
FalseTautology@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 347d
Sometimes you take the hero you get, whether they want to be or not.
SethTaylor@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 347d
Yep. Maybe this is irelevant to US law, but I'm in Romania (European Union member) at the moment and here discriminating against someone based on wealth (wealthy/poor) is a hate crime (as is discriminating based on gender, age, orientation, etc). So at the most it'd be a hate crime. The terrorism charges were politically motivated.
RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com · 1 pts · 343d
An even more convincing engraving would've been something like "The working class is finally coming for the billionaires. None of you are safe." or similar.
You can't intimidate a dead man.
frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 25 pts · 348d
Before we go giving the legal system a pat on the back for that, that's not really what's happening. The law is written with a high level of provable intent in mind, and that's the only way it could possibly pass 1st Amendment muster. It's really, really hard to prove anyone intended to intimidate anyone.
onslaught545@lemmy.zip · 19 pts · 348d
Is it normal for judges to make comments that are worded like the defendant is guilty?
RiceBowl@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 347d
Right? I thought that was odd, too.
onslaught545@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 347d
They should have said something like, "The prosecution hasn't established a motive for the crime to justify a terrorism charge," or something similar.
But I'm not a lawyer, so it's possible (maybe probable) that it's fine to reference the defendant's motives in reference to the prosecution's claims.
nkat2112@sh.itjust.works · 18 pts · 348d
Amen - thank you, yes!
Guidy@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 348d
The only people without such animus either work for the industry or are shareholders.
SethTaylor@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 347d
It's good to see things simmer back down to reality after all the inflammatory politically-motivated accusations. Everyone deserves a fair trial.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works · 173 pts · 348d
I remain unconvinced they even got the right fucking guy
TheRealKuni@piefed.social · 91 pts · 348d
If they did, I suspect they caught him via illegal methods. The story doesn’t add up.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works · 73 pts · 347d
Amongst many other oddities and inconsistencies, the evidence chain of custody was absolutely fucked six ways from Sunday
onslaught545@lemmy.zip · 30 pts · 347d
They didn't get the right guy. Luigi looks nothing like the images of the shooter.
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online · 27 pts · 347d
Which means the actual killer effectively got away with it. Good. I hope he lives a long and quiet life.
FalseTautology@lemmy.zip · 17 pts · 347d
Not me, I hope we see him again soon. There's still a few thousand billionaires more than necessary.
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online · 2 pts · 347d
So he is a good guy Jackal? Like from the Day of the Jackal?
LaunchesKayaks@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 347d
Same
jordanlund@lemmy.world · 101 pts · 348d
Anyone looking at the terrorism charge knew it was bullshit, but check this:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/16/luigi-mangione-terrorism-charges-dropped
"“Counts 1 and 2, charging defendant with Murder in the First Degree (in furtherance of an act of terrorism) and Murder in the Second Degree as a Crime of Terrorism, are dismissed as legally insufficient,” Carro wrote. “The People presented legally sufficient evidence of all other counts, including Murder in the Second Degree (intentional).”"
They didn't just toss the terrorism addendum, they tossed two of the murder charges with the terrorism rider.
Krono@lemmy.today · 92 pts · 347d
I believe Luigi is the killer, and he should be regarded as a hero. The slaying of Brian Thompson was a honorable and heroic act.
Killing a man who did the evil and destructive work of Healthcare CEO has literally saved the lives of hundreds or maybe even thoudands of United Health customers who would have had their lifesaving care denied.
If you are lucky enough to be chosen for jury duty, please study Jury Nullification
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online · 40 pts · 347d
And make absolutely sure that they don't suspect you will be doing jury nullification. They won't allow you to be on the jury if you do.
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 347d
'I believe in the letter of the law laid out by our true and just government. Also every social media post I ever made was just a shit post and I have matured as an adult last week.'
Think that will work?
Serinus@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 347d
No. It won't.
If you say the words "jury nullification" before you're selected, you'll 100% be disqualified. If you say it after you're selected... you'll probably still be disqualified. There's really no reason at all to say those words anywhere near an actual jury. But you can explain the idea, carefully, and maybe not too explicitly.
A jury is the final arbiter of the law. If you decide that throwing a sandwich does not constitute assault, then it's not assault.
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online · 5 pts · 347d
They need to link to your social media posts to YOU. My Lemmy accounts are made with temporary emails. In fact, I stopped using reusable emails unless I absolutely have to. Also I was active on facebook (I only made a facebook account because of the pestering of my family many years ago. But I didn't use it much until years later... and even then, just for a few years, and then I stopped. I stopped using it for a long ass time. I have yet to delete my account though). There was that dumb trend online of many people using their real identities, which I kinda fell for until I realized how colossally stupid it was.
Basically if I had to conceal my lemmy posts (which is my main online social media) I just need to delete my cache and cookies and there is no way for them to find them on my phone or my other computers for them to search. I can deny ever having made any post and there is not a damn thing they can do about it. Even if they somehow want full records from ISP (and I use a VPN) I can just say I read everything and never posted.
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 346d
Any recommendations for email? All the ones I find want my phone number or another email
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online · 2 pts · 345d
Protonmail and tutamail are two examples that immediately come to mind. There are also some darknet emails that can be used to send and receive clearnet emails, but you will need tor network to access them
flambonkscious@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 347d
Nice try, but unlikely
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 347d
they are going to take a while in voir dire, probably going through hundreds juror at a time to see if any of them already havnt been consuming news of luigis arrest. it takes Hours to even go through 12 plus 3-6 alternates.( i was recently in JD and we sat there for like the whole day just doing it in the west.(like 7+hrs)
NateNate60@lemmy.world · 32 pts · 347d
It takes twelve to hang the accused but only one to hang the jury
FalseTautology@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 347d
Jury annulment is the better option here. Best option.
NateNate60@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 347d
Acquittal is what happens when all twelve jurors vote "not guilty".
Conviction is what happens when all twelve jurors vote "guilty".
A hung jury is what happens when at least one of the jurors votes differently from the others.
Jury nullification is when the jury votes to acquit despite the obviousness of the guilt of the accused. It is not the best option. The best option is for the jury to acquit based on the fact that the evidence is honestly shit.
Though jurors are never required to disclose the reasons for their vote. Any one juror who votes "not guilty" and refuses to budge from that position despite the others voting "guilty" will cause a hung jury and prevent the accused from being convicted.
Hence, it takes twelve (unanimous agreement of all jurors) to hang the accused, and it also takes twelve to acquit them, but any single juror can choose to hang the jury by obstinately voting against the others.
Rakonat@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 347d
I believe a CEO was murdered but I've seen zero evidence it was Luigi and all evidence points to another man of different height and build. Law enforcement and prosecution haven't even established that Luigi was even in the city, the photo used to identify him was proven to be 3 weeks olds at the time of the shooting.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 346d
If Luigi was the killer then he has 2 sets of clothes that look remarkably similar but distinctly different. Bit strange to commit murder in one outfit then continue to wear a similar outfit in public.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 346d
given that said "murder" resulted in countless healthcare claims being approved, chances are he saved countless lives.
greywolf0x1@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 347d
Hear, hear!
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 347d
too bad witty is worst THAN BRIAN, and also HEMSELY.
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world · 73 pts · 348d
Free Luigi! Find the real killer!
Dagnet@lemmy.world · 42 pts · 347d
The real killer is dead, he was the CEO
NatakuNox@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 348d
Luigi and I were hanging out in California that morning. He's clearly being rail roaded.
WildPalmTree@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 347d
Mouth, ass, pay. I'm missing words.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world · 44 pts · 348d
Obviously...
They say killing anyone wealthy is terrorism, because they don't think fonus as real people.
They only care about wealthy bigots
RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com · 1 pts · 343d
Who is the "they" in your complaint? Seems to me like "they" charged this appropriately, i.e. not terrorism.
barnaclebutt@lemmy.world · 44 pts · 348d
The cops have totally botched this case. No piece of evidence is not tainted, and that perp walk is enough to bias any jury. He should be let free (for a myriad of reasons).
crystalmerchant@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 347d
Lmao that helicopter perp walk with the giant sniper/assault rifle guys. Transparently obvious what they were trying to accomplish
selkiesidhe@sh.itjust.works · 29 pts · 347d
Luigi did what he did in defense of all of us.
He should be freed.
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 347d
"Allegedly did" at that.
Rakonat@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 347d
I haven't seen any statements from the defense that include an admission of guilt. Got a link to the source?
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 348d
Excellent news. Now the prosecution needs to find and convince 12 people that he did it. I'm not sure they have the evidence to do that.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 348d
I don't doubt they have evidence that irrefutably proves he's the shooter...
The issue has always been legally admissible evidence.
I think they broke a shit ton of laws to find out who did it, then failed to retroactively create a "partel investigation" that would have legally uncovered the evidence so it could be used anyway.
Like, that's pretty normal for cops. They break laws to solve a crime, make up some bullshit about how they'd have found it anyways, then overcharge to get a plea deal and avoid trial.
Luigi ain't taking a plea deal, and while they may very well know it's him, they can't prove it in court
Lawyerator@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 348d
I think the term is "parallel investigation" or parallel construction investigation." I don't doubt that you are correct though.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 348d
Yeah, that's just a typo.
The whole thing is bullshit tho. When you already know where you'll find evidence, it's easy to justify after the fact how you could have legally been able to search that one place.
But they can't narrow it down to that spot except by violating civil rights.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 347d
I do doubt they have evidence he is the shooter. Just the footage taken at the scene has details that don't match with Luigi at all. He was in the area since the image from the hostel is very likely him, but just being in the general vicinity isn't enough to convict.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 347d
Dude...
It's 2025.
If you think the US government can't tell who was on a street at a certain time and then search everyone's cell phones and track where they've been to narrow it down to a very small number of people...
Like
I dunno what to tell you.
The sun also rises each morning and sets at night. And Tuesdays usually follow Mondays.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 347d
You are greatly overestimating the diligence of the police. All they care about is finding anyone to pin it on. They're not doing all that work when they can frame a patsy much more easily.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 347d
This isn't a random crime they don't care about...
A wealthy CEO was killed.
This honestly isn't that difficult to figure out why it's different. But I feel like you've put zero logical thought into your multitude of strong opinions about this.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 346d
All the more reason to pin the blame on anyone they can as quickly as they can. You don't want the plebeian masses getting the idea that their masters are vulnerable.
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 347d
Now move on to hero charges
kreskin@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 347d
He looks innocent to me.
floop@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 14 pts · 348d
Face that gorgeous belongs in a museum, not death row
AZX3RIC@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 348d
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 347d
And that's the ball game.
Maybe now they can start looking for the real killer.
Iheartcheese@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 347d
"Isn't he dreamy?" The judge is on record saying.
tired_n_bored@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 347d
Free my boy
misteloct@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 347d
ABetterTomorrow@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 347d
Where’s the evidences?!
Evotech@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 347d
His court date is December. Whatever they have will come then
ABetterTomorrow@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 347d
Oh so this is just a circus till then?
dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 347d
The same would apply for all trials of murder.
Evotech@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 347d
Yahoo
whiwake@lemmy.cafe · 1 pts · 348d
Woo, I’m hot.
Certamen@feddit.org · -16 pts · 347d