All these memes about wanting to die: You could have been a chunk of ice orbiting Saturn, but you lucked into the single greatest thing the universe has to offer, sentient life.
Even if it's just Earth, if we assume there is a degree of randomness in species assignment then you've got decent odds of reincarnating as an ant:
We conservatively estimate total abundance of ground-dwelling ants at over 3 × 10^15^ and estimate the number of all ants on Earth to be almost 20 × 10^15^ individuals.1
And of course, massively high odds of being a bacteria. There are probably ~40 trillion bacteria living just in your body right now:
They estimate that the range of bacterial cells goes from about 30 to 50 trillion in each individual. 2
But human existence is suffering. Buddhism teaches that if you do incredibly well, you'll be reborn as a being with a worry-free life. Being a plankton sounds exactly like that.
IMO human existence, with all its benefits, is waaaaay below plankton.
Homie led the plankton revolt of 1831479QT, and ushered in a golden age of cooperation and peace between the sea Lords and planktonions, so that only the old, sick, and recently deceased plankton would fuel the hunger of the overlords, and doesn't even remember
The way they die in old age does not appeal to me.
Growing forever, but eventually when they get too large, their shell becomes so difficult to molt that they die of exhaustion before they can complete their molt.
Wait a minute, I fucked up, viruses aren't technically alive. Too bad, your soul is in it until it gets destroyed cause I'm not changing my original comment. You'll just have to wait it out, then you can go back to being probably-but-not-always bacteria.
No, they aren't. With the number of bacteria that have lived over the course of life on Earth, compared to the number of non-bacterial life forms over that time, I would guess that the vast majority of organisms alive now have never been anything other than a bacteria.
Even if you were a human your memories would still be in your previous brain. I see no reason to assume you'd remember anything from your previous life unless you believe there's a "soul" that carries your memories rather than your brain.
In the traditional sense yeah but it could also be linked to the idea of the multiverse or quantum immortality. Or maybe our physical brain only acts as some kind of a receiver that tunes onto some greater consciousness.
I see it simply as a continuation of experience after this current biological vehicle dies. I think that the idea of a “soul” - in the sense of there being a center to consciousness where “you” are located - is an illusion anyway, so the notion of that moving into another body isn’t something I’m concerned about.
Of course, it’s an abstract term, and people use it to mean different things, so in that sense, I suppose the transfer of your “soul” is necessary too. I just don’t agree with what most people mean by that term. Even now, the people who do believe in reincarnation assume they’ve already had past lives they can’t remember. So if “you” aren’t your physical body or your memories, then what actually remains? I’d say it’s the bare fact of experience - consciousness itself. The feeling of being.
Yes, but the point of my response is that I disagree with the premise. It's a serious answer to unserious question. I’m willing to entertain the idea of something like reincarnation, but I’m not making the same assumptions about what that would actually mean.
Without a soul, the concept of reincarnation doesn't exist. Else we are just talking about energy transfer, which absolutely happens after cellular death. Your physical matter is absorbed and becomes part of other organisms.
I lean in favor of open individualism these days, so yes, I was, am, and will continue to be plankton for as long as plankton continues to exist. And to be extra cliche, I am also you, and you, and you, and you, and I am he, as you are he, as you are me, and we are all together.
You have no idea about your previous incarnation, it's a way to try to manipulate people into being good which (as with all religions) relies on choosing stupid leaps of faith
No mythology, contrivances, or manipulation are necessary. Even from a completely secular perspective, some form of rebirth is arguably more likely than simply non-existence after death. Things like karma are unnecessary. If rebirth is real, even one driven entirely by naturalistic processes, then the state of the world is enough to make us ask what kind of world we want to be born into next. The more suffering there is in the world, the more likely it is you will be reborn as something that will suffer.
The burden of proof, when there's no proof in any direction as to what happens after death? Sure, easier to go around calling everyone else stupid when that appears to be the majority of what you add to conversations. You must be real fun at parties.
Alright, I'll bite. For the purposes of this exchange I'm going to define "you" as narrowly as possible to whatever the minimum set of conditions is for a sentient organism to exist, and the bare essentials within that organism that allows it's subjective experience to be uniquely yours. Memories change, knowledge changes, even personalities change. But at least for one being's life cycle, there is an anchored continuity of qualia that is only ever theirs, and at least unless we ever invent some sci fi technology, only ever belongs to that one qualia's body.
With that in mind the argument is quite simple. "You" were born once. If it can happen at least once, why assume it would happen only once?
It's not just about manipulating people into being good. It also gives great comfort to everyone who believes because if anything bad happens to someone, it's because they deserved it.
Technically it's true. There's a high chance bits and pieces of you have been used in other life several times, though you were more likely parts of plants than other creatures.
And when you die, you'll be reused again. Nature has always been like that.
not just "alive" things but "dead" things too. the "dead" multivitamin i took this morning is absorbed into my "living" cells now. the air we breath has been inhaled and exhaled countless times for eons. loose hair and dead skin cells become dust and soil again.
the universe is an ocean, and we are a wave.
we're made of stardust and dinosaur farts.
Thats an interesting take. Figure between sapient lifetimes there would likely be many on sentient lives and your last sentient life would just be a garble by the time you got a new one. Makes me wonder taking the idea that universe is just sorta sentience rearranged and you could then be rocks or beaches or such to. Its like life is a grade school play.
All life is born of Gaia and each life has a spirit... When the physical body dies, the mature spirit, enriched by its life on Earth, returns to Gaia, bringing with it the experiences, enabling Gaia to live and grow
Nah I get flashbacks of the old west and colonial New York. They mean literally less than nothing but I get glimpse of a past and it feels like déjà vu. Maybe I just have an over active imagination and read too many books
74 Comments
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 57 pts · 299d
What if it includes the entire universe and the chances of being a human, on Earth, are just super incredibly slim?
shalafi@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 299d
All these memes about wanting to die: You could have been a chunk of ice orbiting Saturn, but you lucked into the single greatest thing the universe has to offer, sentient life.
AdamEatsAss@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 299d
How do we know sentience is the greatest? It could be peaceful just orbiting.
Lucky_777@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 299d
You wouldn't know you're alive though or even exist. You would just be.
justsquigglez@leminal.space · 11 pts · 299d
Sounds like heaven to me, most of my troubles come from knowing what my situation is and how powerless I am.
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 299d
Well now hold on.....sometimes NOT knowing how bad you're fucked is even worse!
For example.....
tackles Squigglez to the ground, handcuffs them to the wall, and puts a hood over their face
See? Now you're fucked, but the hood over your face makes it so you can't see what I'm preparing, or how fucked you are!
Maybe I'm about to give you a ham dinner, or mabe I'm going to steal your kidneys. Who's to say?
chainsaw revving
Now hold still......this is only going to hurt a lot.
shalafi@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 299d
Death is the option here. 🤷🏻♂️
psoul@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 298d
Well these days, I’d rather be ice around Saturn. The view must be amazing
NaibofTabr@infosec.pub · 10 pts · 299d
Even if it's just Earth, if we assume there is a degree of randomness in species assignment then you've got decent odds of reincarnating as an ant:
And of course, massively high odds of being a bacteria. There are probably ~40 trillion bacteria living just in your body right now:
Lucky_777@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 299d
Now add the ocean. Yeah, we all spend billions of years coming back as bacteria
DrFistington@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 299d
I mean that can explain a lot. I've always been a creature of great inertia, more like a tectonic plate than a human being
FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com · 5 pts · 299d
I always admire your name
DrFistington@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 299d
And the same to you, good sir!
aarch0x40@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 299d
You could take refuge in the fact that you must have been a very good plankton to make it all the way to human in a single cycle.
fonix232@fedia.io · 30 pts · 299d
But human existence is suffering. Buddhism teaches that if you do incredibly well, you'll be reborn as a being with a worry-free life. Being a plankton sounds exactly like that.
IMO human existence, with all its benefits, is waaaaay below plankton.
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 299d
Interesting thought, but I'll take thought over what's basically water-grass.
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 299d
I've tried thought. I'd like to go with plankton for a while now, thanks.
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 299d
Thoughts and prayers. I hope you get your wish.
DrFistington@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 299d
Homie led the plankton revolt of 1831479QT, and ushered in a golden age of cooperation and peace between the sea Lords and planktonions, so that only the old, sick, and recently deceased plankton would fuel the hunger of the overlords, and doesn't even remember
aarch0x40@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 299d
Damn, I didn’t realize plankton had it so hard. Makes sense that it would be krill or be krilled.
FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com · 3 pts · 299d
I wanna be a lobster
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 298d
The way they die in old age does not appeal to me.
Growing forever, but eventually when they get too large, their shell becomes so difficult to molt that they die of exhaustion before they can complete their molt.
tungah@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 299d
He was a good christian plancton.
aarch0x40@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 299d
Then wouldn’t he have gone to plankton heaven?
DioramaOfShit@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 299d
I remember though. A big whale ate me.
TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 299d
Speedrunning death again? So, how was it? Did you get to top 500?
Hoticeberg@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 298d
No, this is Patrick.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 299d
I guess it would explain why everyone can fucking eat me.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 6 pts · 299d
Pretty sure that's because humans are simply at the top of the food chain and can eat pretty much any other animal, including other humans.
In unrelated news: Would you like to come to my
Donnerdinner party?Vandals_handle@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 299d
I use the name Donner to make restaurant reservations just to hear them say, "Donner, Party of four"
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 299d
The ghost of Jeffery Dahmer has entered the chat.
tanisnikana@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 299d
Let's assume that reincarnation is real for all living things, and that you get reincarnated the moment you die. And you get to do it a lot.
Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Virus. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Virus. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Ant. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Virus. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Mosquito. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Virus. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Virus. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Virus. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Ant. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Virus. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Amoeba. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Virus. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Mouse. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Virus. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Virus. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Virus. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. HUMAN!!! Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Virus. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Ant. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Virus. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Virus. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Mosquito. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria. Bacteria.
tanisnikana@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 299d
Wait a minute, I fucked up, viruses aren't technically alive. Too bad, your soul is in it until it gets destroyed cause I'm not changing my original comment. You'll just have to wait it out, then you can go back to being probably-but-not-always bacteria.
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 298d
I feel like there'd be a lot of ants and insects in there too.
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 299d
These odds aren't promising either.
Manjushri@piefed.social · 1 pts · 299d
No, they aren't. With the number of bacteria that have lived over the course of life on Earth, compared to the number of non-bacterial life forms over that time, I would guess that the vast majority of organisms alive now have never been anything other than a bacteria.
Perspectivist@feddit.uk · 9 pts · 299d
Even if you were a human your memories would still be in your previous brain. I see no reason to assume you'd remember anything from your previous life unless you believe there's a "soul" that carries your memories rather than your brain.
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 298d
I assume that belief in reincarnation requires belief in something like a soul to be reincarnated
Perspectivist@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 298d
In the traditional sense yeah but it could also be linked to the idea of the multiverse or quantum immortality. Or maybe our physical brain only acts as some kind of a receiver that tunes onto some greater consciousness.
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 298d
I would call all of those "something like a soul"; an embodiment of your essence external to your physical body.
If it's not an embodiment of your essence external to your physical body, then it's difficult to really call it reincarnation, since it's not you
Perspectivist@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 298d
I see it simply as a continuation of experience after this current biological vehicle dies. I think that the idea of a “soul” - in the sense of there being a center to consciousness where “you” are located - is an illusion anyway, so the notion of that moving into another body isn’t something I’m concerned about.
Of course, it’s an abstract term, and people use it to mean different things, so in that sense, I suppose the transfer of your “soul” is necessary too. I just don’t agree with what most people mean by that term. Even now, the people who do believe in reincarnation assume they’ve already had past lives they can’t remember. So if “you” aren’t your physical body or your memories, then what actually remains? I’d say it’s the bare fact of experience - consciousness itself. The feeling of being.
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 298d
That's the whole point of this post.
What if you do retain your memories, but your past lives were creatures that didn't have the ability to form memories?
Perspectivist@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 298d
Yes, but the point of my response is that I disagree with the premise. It's a serious answer to unserious question. I’m willing to entertain the idea of something like reincarnation, but I’m not making the same assumptions about what that would actually mean.
viking@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 298d
Without a soul, the concept of reincarnation doesn't exist. Else we are just talking about energy transfer, which absolutely happens after cellular death. Your physical matter is absorbed and becomes part of other organisms.
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 298d
If you’re a really well-behaved plankton you could have become the bodhisatva. But you were very poorly behaved, and became Human.
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 5 pts · 299d
I lean in favor of open individualism these days, so yes, I was, am, and will continue to be plankton for as long as plankton continues to exist. And to be extra cliche, I am also you, and you, and you, and you, and I am he, as you are he, as you are me, and we are all together.
shawn1122@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 299d
Sounds like thr Advaita Vedanta concept of Brahman which is described in Dharmic religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism.
Always fascinating to see Eastern spirituality's influence on philosophy.
FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com · 4 pts · 299d
That's part of the whole mythology
You have no idea about your previous incarnation, it's a way to try to manipulate people into being good which (as with all religions) relies on choosing stupid leaps of faith
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 299d
No mythology, contrivances, or manipulation are necessary. Even from a completely secular perspective, some form of rebirth is arguably more likely than simply non-existence after death. Things like karma are unnecessary. If rebirth is real, even one driven entirely by naturalistic processes, then the state of the world is enough to make us ask what kind of world we want to be born into next. The more suffering there is in the world, the more likely it is you will be reborn as something that will suffer.
FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com · 1 pts · 299d
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Rebirth more likely..?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 299d
Why would non-existence be more likely?
FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com · -1 pts · 299d
You're the one making the claim
A stupid one at that
The burden of proof lies with you.
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 298d
The burden of proof, when there's no proof in any direction as to what happens after death? Sure, easier to go around calling everyone else stupid when that appears to be the majority of what you add to conversations. You must be real fun at parties.
Alright, I'll bite. For the purposes of this exchange I'm going to define "you" as narrowly as possible to whatever the minimum set of conditions is for a sentient organism to exist, and the bare essentials within that organism that allows it's subjective experience to be uniquely yours. Memories change, knowledge changes, even personalities change. But at least for one being's life cycle, there is an anchored continuity of qualia that is only ever theirs, and at least unless we ever invent some sci fi technology, only ever belongs to that one qualia's body.
With that in mind the argument is quite simple. "You" were born once. If it can happen at least once, why assume it would happen only once?
FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com · -1 pts · 298d
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Pseudo-intellectual wank at its finest
AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 298d
So where's your rebuttal?
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 299d
It's not just about manipulating people into being good. It also gives great comfort to everyone who believes because if anything bad happens to someone, it's because they deserved it.
FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com · 3 pts · 299d
Oh yeah, it (again, with all religions) gives people licence to be cunts
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 299d
So I deserved my back injury and subsequent 7-stitch wound upon returning to work? Perhaps I'm just a bad construction worker in this life.
It's like a trope that people coming off of long medical leave in the construction field will injure themselves in the first week. I'm a meme.
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 299d
If you believe in karma/reincarnation then it's your fault!
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 299d
woah
saltesc@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 299d
Technically it's true. There's a high chance bits and pieces of you have been used in other life several times, though you were more likely parts of plants than other creatures.
And when you die, you'll be reused again. Nature has always been like that.
loldog191@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 299d
not just "alive" things but "dead" things too. the "dead" multivitamin i took this morning is absorbed into my "living" cells now. the air we breath has been inhaled and exhaled countless times for eons. loose hair and dead skin cells become dust and soil again.
the universe is an ocean, and we are a wave. we're made of stardust and dinosaur farts.
FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com · 0 pts · 299d
Nothing goes to waste, but god-botherers and smelly hippies want to make something stupid out of it
HubertManne@piefed.social · 3 pts · 299d
Thats an interesting take. Figure between sapient lifetimes there would likely be many on sentient lives and your last sentient life would just be a garble by the time you got a new one. Makes me wonder taking the idea that universe is just sorta sentience rearranged and you could then be rocks or beaches or such to. Its like life is a grade school play.
JennyLaFae@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 298d
All life is born of Gaia and each life has a spirit... When the physical body dies, the mature spirit, enriched by its life on Earth, returns to Gaia, bringing with it the experiences, enabling Gaia to live and grow
koshka@koshka.ynh.fr · 1 pts · 296d
That assumes that people reincarnate as non humans and that they reincarnate into the same world.
Lumidaub@feddit.org · 1 pts · 299d
Does my previous life have any effect on my current life? If no, then if I don't even remember, the fuck do I care?
Aneb@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 298d
Nah I get flashbacks of the old west and colonial New York. They mean literally less than nothing but I get glimpse of a past and it feels like déjà vu. Maybe I just have an over active imagination and read too many books
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 298d
I've been reincarnated from the future and get flashes of what's to come.
gotta say, it's not great.
Aneb@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 298d
Lol I walked around this winter in the snow and thought, "this won't be here in 13 years". Very specific but feels probably true
WALLACE@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 298d
The... Snow... Won't be here?
SoGrumpy@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 297d
Global warming - there won't be any snow.
Beebabe@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 299d
Guess I was a bad plankton :(