I know this has been an infuriating topic for a while now, but gosh it's getting on my nerves. I'm trying to watch Secret Level, finally, and I can't see half of what's happening because so many scenes across many of the shorts are pretty much pitch black.
Why?? Why not, y'know, just give us a little bit of fucking contrast? Instead, I have to choose whether to have a light on or to not see the scenes.
62 Comments
ummthatguy@lemmy.world · 52 pts · 301d
Picard season 3 is very much a standout for this trend.
someguy3@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 301d
Light is expensive in the 24th century.
ummthatguy@lemmy.world · 40 pts · 301d
Not so much in the 23rd century Kelvin-verse:
bobs_monkey@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 301d
The lights were too high for 100 years so they're compensating. Dilithium crystals got expensive when the Ferengi cornered the market.
snooggums@piefed.world · 3 pts · 301d
Maybe they are actually in the dark dimension!
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 17 pts · 301d
It actually took me several seconds to notice the man in the first picture
jballs@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 301d
Lol I didn't notice till I read your comment.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · -2 pts · 301d
That is odd. It looks fine for me. Are you running a really old display?
tal@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 301d
I didn't have any problem with the guy in the first picture either, but I would be willing to bet that many of us are viewing this thread using very different display brightness/contrast settings.
I'm currently looking at it on a laptop. My laptop has no light sensor with automatic brightness adjustment, and I use the laptop in a wide range of environments, so I need to use
brightnessctlon Linux to fiddle the brightness, usually between about 10% and 60%. It's not like there's one single "correct brightness" when I'm in a ton of different environments.My desktop's monitor doesn't have a light sensor with automatic brightness adjustment either.
There's probably some way to go get a brightness sensor and a daemon to auto-fiddle the thing on the desktop --- webcams, which often have automatic brightness adjustment themselves, aren't great for this. But, well, I never got around to it.
arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone · 16 pts · 301d
Wow, that is egregiously bad. Almost impossible to tell what's going on in the first shot. Like, even in a dark shot you still need to be able to see their silhouettes or something. This just looks like a bunch of blobs.
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 301d
I think he's playing a very small piano.
psx_crab@lemmy.zip · 11 pts · 301d
Wow, is the Enterprise lose their engineer so no bulb is being replaced?
ummthatguy@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 301d
It's the Titan-A, but seems like everyone is photosensitive for some reason.
psx_crab@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 301d
Same feel.
Jack_Burton@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 301d
burntbacon@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 301d
I don't see the problem? I can see the character's expressions, their stances, their clothes and clothing decorations, the objects they're holding... I don't necessarily agree that this should be the way a federation starship would be lit, but I don't see why people would say they couldn't see anything.
Damage@feddit.it · 3 pts · 301d
That series should be erased from history
1984@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 301d
Just watch Star Trek Enterprise instead.. :)
sheridan@lemmy.world · 43 pts · 301d
I've noticed this problem with a lot of media made in the past decade. I think Netflix's 'Ozark' is one of the worst examples. In almost every indoor scene the lights are off or very dim.
However, I got an oled screen this year, and it's helped a lot with dim scenes. I'm guessing hollywood is calibrating for expensive high contrast screens like oled and mini-led?
lambdabeta@lemmy.ca · 24 pts · 301d
I think this is the real answer. HDR is a thing and the baseline for expected dynamic range is higher than both what older displays can produce and older eyes can consume.
skisnow@lemmy.ca · 37 pts · 301d
I can tolerate that, the one I can’t stand is Netflix shows where the
dialogue is a mumbled quietand random bits of foley try to blow my speakers out.It makes it especially noticeable just how dodgy a lot of foley/sound editing work is, eg when someone throwing a punch and missing still goes WHOOSH at the same volume they use for gunshots. There’s YA shows now where even the camera panning gets a sound effect ffs
reev@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 301d
This cause could be downmixing from something like 5.1 or 7.1 to stereo. Because dialogue is mostly on the center channel while music and SFX are much more spread out in the soundstage, you might have a sound appear on speakers center, front left and back left while dialogue only happens on center.
This would mean that depending on the mix, you might have a sound that's 2-3 times louder than the dialogue when mixed to stereo since all those sounds have to get played on fewer speakers.
This is why a 5.1 compatible soundbar will be more balanced than stereo speakers, even if it doesn't have full surround sound. They have a physical speaker for each of the channels so at least the mix sounds better.
Not saying this is always the issue but its certainly one of the possible causes.
bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de · 12 pts · 301d
This myth gets brought up so often despite numerous evidence to the contrary. The sound sucks for people with good equipment as well. The sound sucks in theaters.
They just seem to have a hard-on for mumbling. Because of realism or something.
reev@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 301d
I'd love to see the evidence, it depends on your player and how you're downmixing. There are some that do it better than others but this is definitely a thing.
bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de · 1 pts · 301d
The evidence is that even on good equipment the dialogue is hard to hear.
reev@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 301d
Okay, I guess two can play the "trust me bro" game. I have stereo speakers on which this is an issue and a 5.1 compatible soundbar on which it is not. Same file, same player.
JordanZ@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 301d
hedge_lord@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 301d
Dialogue is not really important, what you really need to hear is the exaggerated wet sucking noises of characters kissing each other.
(/s)
ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 300d
Soumd engineers are.big dicks these days. I am thinking of building a limiter and hooking my tv to a sound bar.
ms_lane@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 301d
They are giving you contrast, lots more contrast.
That's actually the problem, most people don't have very good displays and additionally watch dark content in lit rooms - but showrunners are pushing for HDR, when you've got a $20k Sony OLED PVM in bt2020 or 'color space off' (native gamma), everything looks good. (There is a BT709/sRGB emulation mode, but I don't think they care enough to use it)
Try to watch the same on an IPS LCD with possibly not even 100% SRGB coverage and you're going to have a bad time. Even a VA will have a bad time if viewed off-axis.
SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 301d
In audio, you would test with multiple reference monitors and rooms. Cellphone, car, shitty tv speakers, mono, various headphones, etc. The idea being you record/edit/mix it on normal monitors, but then check it out in ways that normal people will, to see if it translates well or will sound like shit.
Scipitie@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 301d
I get where you're coming from but movie audio also fails here. The same darkness discussion arises about dialogue-to-explosion volume regularly :)
That doesn't take away from what you said they "proper" audio work is done that way ...
SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 301d
Oh yeah, "movie theater dynamics" on home mixes kills me. I'm so glad Hollywood has, or at least had a period of that being toned down. Like I get the need to have explosions explosively louder than a whispering scene, but Jesus fucking Christ, give me a break, it doesn't need to be THAT extreme.
In some movies when I'm watching at home, I swear, there's a noticable two-mode system that's quite clearly loud-mode and quiet-mode, that if you had a macro on your volume, you could literally switch between, and the mastering would fit perfectly, and it's probably only 6-12db different.
That type of thing just isn't necessary. Or maybe there could be a different audio track. People have the bandwidth and storage, now, it'd be fine.
mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 301d
Can confirm. The most important test for my mixes is the car test. Get your buddies together, and hopefully they have a variety of cars. Play it in a nice car with great speakers, play it in a shitty 2001 Corolla with a blown out cone in the passenger door, and as many in between as you can get. The more homogenous the listening experience is across those cars, the better your mix will sound on a variety of systems.
For most people, their car is the best sound system they own. It’s also where people do a lot of listening, because very few people drive in complete silence. So if it sounds like ass in the car, people will stop listening.
SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 301d
Being able to balance for road noise masking may actually be the greatest skill on earth.
FG_3479@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 301d
You can usually fix it by turning off power saving/eco mode and setting the gamma to 2.2 on your TV. You should also turn off motion smoothing (Trumotion/Auto Motion Plus/Motionflow/Clear Motion) so motion doesn't look overly smooth and fake.
mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 301d
I hate that motion smoothing is turned on by default these days. I know it’s because sports fans want it enabled, but it makes literally everything else look like a garbage low budget soap opera.
aubeynarf@lemmynsfw.com · 13 pts · 301d
mushroommunk@lemmy.today · 15 pts · 301d
Home theater enthusiast here, had my brand new screen calibrated professionally. Still can't see shit.
TV shows are definitely not being lit well and graded poorly. It's the visual pairing with all the actors mumbling for "realism". The most famous example is the final battle in Game of Thrones but it's not stopped there.
aubeynarf@lemmynsfw.com · 3 pts · 301d
FG_3479@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 301d
Set the gamma to 2.2 and make sure the eco mode is turned off.
You should also select the 2.0 audio track when available, or try the dynamic compression/volume normalisation setting.
mushroommunk@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 301d
Sure you can tweak it some but it's panel dependent what you should use and it only helps to a point when the entire scene just isn't lit and then compressed. It also depends on whether you've got a dark room or some ambient light. Anyone recommending a single number is off track and missing the base issue.
Also, why would I use 2.0 audio track? I've got a 7.2.4 surround sound system flat from 15-20k hz. I'm not going to split a 2.0 signal. And yes, I've boosted the center hot compared to the surrounds. Again, it's pretty clear that most of the time it's just not recorded well.
This stuff is documented everywhere why it's happening and people aren't happy with it. Others have linked examples. It's not my setup, it's also a problem in theaters and elsewhere.
FG_3479@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 294d
My 2.0 signal advice is for those using the built-in TV speakers or a soundbar who wonder why dialouge is so quiet.
Also, most TV's don't have an arbitrary slider for gamma. 2.2 is a target that many of the same model of TV should be within about 0.5 of when selected.
That advice is for those using LCD TVs with a 300 nit max brightness, not a 1000 nit OLED where BT.1886 may be more appropriate.
scrion@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 301d
It's not the TV settings of the poster that inspired these articles:
https://www.polygon.com/23661749/why-movies-look-dark-cinematography/
https://variety.com/2022/film/news/why-movies-so-dark-hard-to-see-batman-1235195535/
https://www.redsharknews.com/is-modern-cinematography-too-dark
While some movies were not graded perfectly for some home screens, shooting darker movies has definitely been a trend, sometimes up to a point where it is indeed impossible to actually see what's happening, and a lot of people complain about that.
al_Kaholic@lemmynsfw.com · 9 pts · 301d
Your dying homie the light has dimmed in your eyes, ravaged by time.
Brkdncr@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 301d
Did you take your sunglasses off?
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 301d
Thanks that was it
SanctimoniousApe@lemmings.world · 2 pts · 301d
Of course not! It's nighttime!
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 301d
What kind of nerd do you take me for?
brucethemoose@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 301d
What’s your exact watching setup? Like TV, room, player, source?
There are likely ways to mitigate this, but it all depends on your setup.
CTDummy@aussie.zone · 7 pts · 301d
Dark shows on decent/properly calibrated screens are my crack tho. Why must you deprive me.
Suck_on_my_Presence@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 301d
You do you, boo. I just want to see what I'm watching ;-;
CTDummy@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 301d
You know what, fair enough. My reply was more tongue in cheek. I don’t doubt it would be frustrating.
Noite_Etion@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 301d
HDR
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 301d
Lighting is expensive!
tal@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 301d
Your display likely has some sort of brightness/contrast setting.
If you're playing this movie on a computing device, the video player software likely also has adjustment settings at the software level. I use
mpvon Linux to watch most video, and there, by default, 1 and 2 are contrast, 3 and 4 brightness, and 5 and 6 gamma.eager_eagle@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 301d
yeah, MPV is the goat
A_norny_mousse@feddit.org · 4 pts · 301d
This is definitely a thing. See comment with screeshots from Picard. But I don't let it infuriate me - just adjust the screen or crank up the gamma or, if you want the cinematic experience, switch off surrounding lights.
KindnessIsPunk@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 301d
Gotham was bad for this
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 301d
What video player doesn't have a gamma slider?
_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus · 2 pts · 301d
Suck_on_my_Presence@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 301d
I guess I've gotta figure this out. It's pretty new and I thought it was supposed to just be able to help with the darkness. But I dunno
FG_3479@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 301d
Almost all TVs come with a power saving or eco mode enabled by default which ruins visibility. Find that in the settings and turn it off. You should also turn off motion interpolation (e.g Trumotion, Clear Motion Plus, Motionflow) so motion doesn't become a smeary and artificial mess.
_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus · 1 pts · 301d
mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 300d
they assume people have better TVs now than a decade or more ago
so those of us watching on older hardware suffer
side note: my OLED TV is fantastic for contrast. the smooth motion shit glitches the fuck out sometimes though no matter which setting it is on (including off, somehow?), and it's a smart TV so now it constantly asks for me to update it so it can spy on me more or some shit idk. super fucking annoying to have to dismiss a popup every time it turns on
FishFace@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 301d
They're taking advantage of the ability to do so with modern cameras and TVs because a dark look communicates something - a dark mood for example. It contrasts with other shows or scenes.
It stands out to me when a scene is supposed to be at night but obviously has a 100ft light tower just off camera. Toning it down looks good.
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de · 1 pts · 301d
That's your motivation to buy a new TV with the most expensive OLED out there, high contrast and a smarthome with nice automatic blinds for the windows.
But seriously, I thought that was mainly over by now? I had a lot of those shows 5-10 years ago. But seems they still do it.
subignition@fedia.io · 0 pts · 301d
Probably need to tweak the settings on whatever display you're using, or potentially consider investing in a more-modern type of panel depending on what you have now.