"Charisma is about sex appeal" is funny, but that's not really entirely accurate. It's about motivating others towards your goals whatever that may be, having a presence that commands attention and being a good communicator. That's why charisma helps disparate skills like lying, persuading, intimidating, and performing. Sex appeal may superficially help some of those things, but so does a half-giant that makes you piss yourself with their mere presence, or an old fat guy who speaks with clarity of conviction and intelligence. Ain't nobody want to fuck Winston Churchill, and he was an asshole as well. But he was a very charismatic figure, still.
One of the things I liked about the Chronicles of Darkness system is it cleared this up nicely. Stats were in a 3x3 grid.
One axis was physical, mental, social
The other was Power, Finesse, Resistance.
Want to shove something? Physical + Power. That's strength.
Want to figure out a riddle? Mental + Finesse. That's Dexterity Wits. (Edit: wrote dexterity originally, meant Wits)
Command attention? Social + Power. That's the Presence stat.
Lie and misdirect? Social + Finesse. Stat was called Manipulation.
Now you can have a character that's commanding without also being a natural liar and flirt. DND doesn't help let you do that because the concepts are bundled together into a single stat.
(You could invest separately into like Expression for making speeches and Deception for lying, of course)
Humans are rated 1 to 5, where a 5 is the peak of human capability. Presence 5 is like AAA movie stars and great leaders.
Of course, if you add supernaturals to your game a starting chump vampire could have seven presence if they take Majesty as their power, and become a nearly irresistible magnet of attention.
I may be dating myself as an older weeb with this reference, but Osaka from Azumanga was not what you'd consider intelligent, but she got riddles instantly because she just thought weird.
My prime example would be Donald Trump. Hideously looking and true evil while dumping strength, dexterity, constitution (unfortunately not enough), intelligence and wisdom, but he undeniably has at least an 18 in charisma.
Tbh I don't really get why though. Clearly he's good at getting people to listen, but... why?
Hitler was similar (except I'd say better looking) but listening to his speeches I at least get how he had crowds cheering. Trump could say things I agree with and I'd still not want to listen to him.
Not really. It's more broad and includes it's original meaning of divine grace or presence. Why would sorcerer's spellcasting ability be charisma? It's broader than social charisma since sorcerer's cast with their innate abilities.
Eh, a ten will give you about a 50/50 roll if something is "easy," and only about a 25% chance if something is "medium" difficulty. Sounds about right for me.
Am I gonna shut my damn mouth when I should? 75% of the time, no.
I mean, plenty of people might be walking around with something roughly stick-shaped. Be it a broom, a shovel or an umbrella, it's all a more effective weapon than bare hands
A paladin uses CHA because they have to know exactly what to say to their deity to get the result they need. If they can't rizz up their gods, they get no power.
A fun campaign i played was where the DM set up the scenario where I, a high level Paladin, gave up on my Diety and basically switched religions. That one was fun.
Wisdom is such a weird attribute in ttrpgs, it is often overloaded with the concept of perception. But at the same time I don't necessarily think it should be split to it's own thing, more attributes aren't necessarily better.
Intelligence is being able to describe why rain exists and why it is raining. Wisdom is understanding that you can do the above while not standing in a rainstorm
Hey, I’m all for nostalgia, but reordering it to separate the physical stats from the mental ones was a very good idea. I’m pretty sure my first game back when I was… 10? (long time ago)… also used the Str Int Wis order. But you know… that order got changed REAL fast… 2e, iirc. And good riddance.
I attribute it like the line, "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, that they didn't stop to think if they should." Just because someome is brainy and knows a lot of specialized facts doesn't mean they'll always make wise decisions.
56 Comments
kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world · 54 pts · 278d
"Charisma is about sex appeal" is funny, but that's not really entirely accurate. It's about motivating others towards your goals whatever that may be, having a presence that commands attention and being a good communicator. That's why charisma helps disparate skills like lying, persuading, intimidating, and performing. Sex appeal may superficially help some of those things, but so does a half-giant that makes you piss yourself with their mere presence, or an old fat guy who speaks with clarity of conviction and intelligence. Ain't nobody want to fuck Winston Churchill, and he was an asshole as well. But he was a very charismatic figure, still.
jjjalljs@ttrpg.network · 37 pts · 278d
One of the things I liked about the Chronicles of Darkness system is it cleared this up nicely. Stats were in a 3x3 grid.
One axis was physical, mental, social
The other was Power, Finesse, Resistance.
Want to shove something? Physical + Power. That's strength.
Want to figure out a riddle? Mental + Finesse. That's
DexterityWits. (Edit: wrote dexterity originally, meant Wits)Command attention? Social + Power. That's the Presence stat.
Lie and misdirect? Social + Finesse. Stat was called Manipulation.
Now you can have a character that's commanding without also being a natural liar and flirt. DND doesn't help let you do that because the concepts are bundled together into a single stat.
(You could invest separately into like Expression for making speeches and Deception for lying, of course)
Humans are rated 1 to 5, where a 5 is the peak of human capability. Presence 5 is like AAA movie stars and great leaders.
Of course, if you add supernaturals to your game a starting chump vampire could have seven presence if they take Majesty as their power, and become a nearly irresistible magnet of attention.
Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 277d
Wait, wouldn't it make sense to figure out a riddle with Intelligence? And for Dexterity to be Physical + Finesse?
jjjalljs@ttrpg.network · 3 pts · 277d
Riddles are often lateral thinking or other cleverness, so they seem more finesse than power. But yes, I wrote "dexterity" when I meant "Wits".
chatokun@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 277d
I may be dating myself as an older weeb with this reference, but Osaka from Azumanga was not what you'd consider intelligent, but she got riddles instantly because she just thought weird.
XM34@feddit.org · 9 pts · 278d
My prime example would be Donald Trump. Hideously looking and true evil while dumping strength, dexterity, constitution (unfortunately not enough), intelligence and wisdom, but he undeniably has at least an 18 in charisma.
LwL@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 277d
Tbh I don't really get why though. Clearly he's good at getting people to listen, but... why?
Hitler was similar (except I'd say better looking) but listening to his speeches I at least get how he had crowds cheering. Trump could say things I agree with and I'd still not want to listen to him.
RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com · 5 pts · 278d
Charisma is essentially Social Skills.
Social Skills definitely help you get laid, but also convince a shopkeeper to give you a discount, persuade a guard to look the other way, etc.
Draces@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 278d
Not really. It's more broad and includes it's original meaning of divine grace or presence. Why would sorcerer's spellcasting ability be charisma? It's broader than social charisma since sorcerer's cast with their innate abilities.
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works · 33 pts · 278d
Int is knowing what you're talking about
Wis is knowing when to talk
Cha is when people listen to you
MourningDove@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 278d
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 278d
wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad
charisma is selling salsa
MourningDove@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 278d
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 278d
I wish I were smart enough to think of it myself, but I heard it somewhere
Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 277d
You went a few steps too far.
Charisma is your ability to sell a tomato based fruit salad
Guys, I found the bard!
Xylight@lemdro.id · 19 pts · 278d
The words in the pictures have some diabolical keming
BearGun@ttrpg.network · 4 pts · 277d
jpegging a pdf will do that for you
87Six@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 277d
I hate it when I be jpegging my pdf in hospital then her doc walks in on us
threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 277d
!keming@lemmy.world
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca · 17 pts · 278d
If 10 is average my stats are way too low.
CuriousRefugee@discuss.tchncs.de · 27 pts · 278d
Eh, a ten will give you about a 50/50 roll if something is "easy," and only about a 25% chance if something is "medium" difficulty. Sounds about right for me.
Am I gonna shut my damn mouth when I should? 75% of the time, no.
dfyx@lemmy.helios42.de · 10 pts · 278d
10 is average for an adventuring hero. Not necessarily for most "civilians" if you want to call them that.
Edit: I stand corrected. Must have confused it with some other system or an older edition.
chuckleslord@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 278d
Incorrect. Commoner is all 10s
festnt@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 278d
i like how according to this everyone just has a big stick stowed away somehere
edit: wait now that i looked again, those are the exact stats for a fist in pf2e if you were level 0 and trained in unarmed attacks
assuming dnd fists work similarly, why didn't they just put in a fist instead of a club?
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 8 pts · 278d
I was like "do I?" And looked around my room for the first thing I could use as an improvised club and my eyes landed on a sex toy.
festnt@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 278d
well it'll work
unless it's too flexible, idk what kind of toy it is
Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 278d
Because DnD fists do 1 + STR damage, no dice at all.
festnt@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 276d
oh i did not know that. thx
Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 277d
I mean, plenty of people might be walking around with something roughly stick-shaped. Be it a broom, a shovel or an umbrella, it's all a more effective weapon than bare hands
cjoll4@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 278d
12.5 is average for an adventuring hero using the standard array plus typical adjustments for race.
Even if you roll 3d6 across the board with no adjustments, old school, 10.5 is average.
melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 278d
5e commoners are 10 across the board.
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 3 pts · 278d
Incorrect, 10 is the average for the average human.
_stranger_@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 278d
CHA is knowing what to say to get what you want.
A paladin uses CHA because they have to know exactly what to say to their deity to get the result they need. If they can't rizz up their gods, they get no power.
neukenindekeuken@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 278d
Paladin doesn't use CHA with their god, they use it to lure the common people TO their god. So they gets more powah.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 278d
Yeah the original description sounds more like a warlock. Which, what's the diff between a hexblade and a pally really
LordCrom@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 278d
A fun campaign i played was where the DM set up the scenario where I, a high level Paladin, gave up on my Diety and basically switched religions. That one was fun.
UrPartnerInCrime@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 278d
Intelligence is knowing tomatoes are a fruit
Wisdom is knowing never to add it to a fruit salad
TheGiantKorean@lemmy.today · 10 pts · 278d
Constitution is when you have to eat the fruit salad and there's tomatoes in it.
Susaga@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 278d
Charisma is being able to sell a tomato-based fruit salad. That's how we got salsa.
crunchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 278d
Charisma is framing salsa as a tomato-based fruit salad
Harvey656@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 278d
But the little cherry tomatoes rock in fruit salad!
AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 278d
What about fruit salad served in a tomato?
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 9 pts · 278d
Wisdom is such a weird attribute in ttrpgs, it is often overloaded with the concept of perception. But at the same time I don't necessarily think it should be split to it's own thing, more attributes aren't necessarily better.
_stranger_@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 278d
I think fallout's S.P.E.C.I.A.L works quite well.
Wisdom isn't a thing by itself, it's split between perception, charisma, and intelligence, for the most part.
QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 278d
Intelligence is being able to describe why rain exists and why it is raining. Wisdom is understanding that you can do the above while not standing in a rainstorm
MourningDove@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 278d
Iunnrais@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 278d
Hey, I’m all for nostalgia, but reordering it to separate the physical stats from the mental ones was a very good idea. I’m pretty sure my first game back when I was… 10? (long time ago)… also used the Str Int Wis order. But you know… that order got changed REAL fast… 2e, iirc. And good riddance.
QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 278d
Wasn't it copper-silver-electrum-gold-platinum? That would be the order of value as I remember it but I haven't looked at the boxed stuff in years.
MourningDove@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 278d
nuko147@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 278d
My Constitution is 0.
underscores@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 278d
How charisma works: just say "hey baby". you're all welcome
Lyra_Lycan@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 4 pts · 278d
I was more a 00's kid into consoles, so this was introduced to me via Fallout 3, then Dark Souls
smeg@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 278d
RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com · 3 pts · 278d
I have never seen Intelligence contrasted with Wisdom in a way that felt fitting. Does an intelligent person not know when not to speak?
ICCrawler@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 278d
I attribute it like the line, "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, that they didn't stop to think if they should." Just because someome is brainy and knows a lot of specialized facts doesn't mean they'll always make wise decisions.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 278d
c/AuDHD
RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com · 3 pts · 278d
I feel like knowing when not to speak also overlaps with CHA.
Blurry lines indeed.
Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 277d
High intelligence low wisdom turns you into an unskippable cutscene of deep exposition.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 278d
You have not my family I take it. Lots of book learning, no ability to shut up
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 278d
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 278d
Vitality: Whatever it is that makes wild hogs unkillable.
Little8Lost@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 278d
Hey baby ;)