As far as I know, that is the 'number case'. Where the difference between upper and lower case is defined based on alignment of the numbers with baseline of typography.
I think the post is taking about 'letter case'. Which we commonly use to yell at people through text. I don't think there is an equivalent like that in case of numbers. Mainly because numbers came from languages which are unicase by default. Like the Indian languages and Arabic.
It is lowercase only. But lowercase in number case. The upper and lower case is distinguished based on alignment in this, where in text case it is based on shape and/or size.
Edit: my use of the words number case and letter case does not look like the standard words. But the concept still exist.
Check this: https://totallytype.com/figures.php
IDK, I don't think old style and lining figures are analogous to lower- and uppercase letters. They're not really different glyphs, at least not like lower- and uppercase letters are, and I would see them more as different ways of typesetting the same glyph.
The typical use for the "lower case" numbers is in body copy, because that style of number fits in better with the old style and transitional fonts that are typically used there. So, you are most likely to see them when you are reading a book or an article, but not in the headlines or chapter titles.
Source: just sat through a lecture on this last week in Intro Typography.
That's traditional but today I think most people remember them from signage and logos, shops and boutique firms love having 4s in their names because it looks so nice old style next to another number. Like Table 42 or maybe 10th Street Bar where the 0 is old style, with the dot or bar under it. A lot of websites also use it in headers because it looks more sophisticated and old-money. I am not sure how many people read books and body copy anymore, but I like the idea that it still happens!
For some reason this reminds me of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COBOL](the COBOL programming language), though not even COBOL was batshit enough to use numerals written in plain English. Everything else was in plain English, though, which was supposed to make it easier to read and write, but is in reality a horrible idea.
Though all caps just reminds me of early programming languages in general, since we didn't separate uppercase and lowercase in all machines back then, instead using encoding schemes like DEC SIXBIT. Saving memory by using only six bits per character instead of seven or eight, and such. Six bit characters had matching word lengths, before the concept of a byte there used to be loads of 12-bit and 36-bit architectures, that more-or-less went away when the industry almost collectively decided to take byte-addressed memory into use.
That makes me wonder, why are there capital letters in the first place? Could we not have done fine without them? There is no reason why each sentence has to start with a capital letter, it only adds another level of complexity to the written language. Names and titles would be just fine in lower case. I can write larger letters rather than using capital letters to express loudness. "Startrek into/Into Darkness" could finally have a common consensus on correct capitalization.
Because of redundancy. Modern written language has a lot of features that make it easier to read, that were added as society became more literal. Things like capitalization, punctuation (a surprisingly recent addition), even separately marking vowels wasn't a given for all writing systems (see old Hebrew as an example). Capital letter in the start of a sentence saves you from picking that up from context, especially when coupled together with the stop (.) signifying the end of it. Redundancy is actually a very natural phenomenon, and spoken language has loads more compared to written examples.
It's complexity that aids the understanding, trading some of the simplicity and speed of writing to better reading comprehension. As per why capital and lowercase, in latin script capitals are derived from the letters that were chiseled, lowercase used to be just a handwritten thing. Written language naturally evolved to make use of these two systems to aid in reading. So things like capitalization are actually completely opposite from added complexity, actually making the language easier to comprehend after a bit of an initial learning curve.
To hammer the point through here's the same comment with the "complexity" removed, a bit more akin to tokenized text:
because of redundancy modern written language has a lot of features that make it easier to read that were added as society became more literal things like capitalization punctuation (a surprisingly recent addition) even separately marking vowels wasnt a given for all writing systems (see old hebrew as an example) capital letter in the start of a sentence saves you from picking that up from context especially when coupled together with the stop (.) signifying the end of it redundancy is actually a very natural phenomenon and spoken language has loads more compared to written examples
its complexity that aids the understanding trading some of the simplicity and speed of writing to better reading comprehension as per why capital and lowercase in latin script capitals are derived from the letters that were chiseled lowercase used to be just a handwritten thing written language naturally evolved to make use of these two systems to aid in reading so things like capitalization are actually completely opposite from added complexity actually making the language easier to comprehend after a bit of an initial learning curve
Because English is weird, in Chinese Language, it doesn't even need much spacing between words and you can write it vertically or read right to left. Lol
70 Comments
m_f@discuss.online · 141 pts · 277d
XKCD has you covered:
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 44 pts · 277d
There truly is an XKCD for everything...
The subreddit law of comics (lemmy communities just can't reach that level for now)
olenkoVD@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 277d
Relevant video by mad lad Tom7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLRdruqQfRk
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 277d
☺☻♥♦♣♠•◘○
vivi@slrpnk.net · 71 pts · 277d
nerd mode engaged.
https://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/54423/why-dont-upper-case-numbers-exist#54425
they actually are usually upper case, it's the lower case that are less widely used.
Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 277d
sorter_plainview@lemmy.today · 7 pts · 277d
As far as I know, that is the 'number case'. Where the difference between upper and lower case is defined based on alignment of the numbers with baseline of typography.
I think the post is taking about 'letter case'. Which we commonly use to yell at people through text. I don't think there is an equivalent like that in case of numbers. Mainly because numbers came from languages which are unicase by default. Like the Indian languages and Arabic.
vivi@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 277d
Wikipedia says that they are sometimes referred to as lowercase.
sorter_plainview@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 277d
It is lowercase only. But lowercase in number case. The upper and lower case is distinguished based on alignment in this, where in text case it is based on shape and/or size.
Edit: my use of the words number case and letter case does not look like the standard words. But the concept still exist. Check this: https://totallytype.com/figures.php
anomnom@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 277d
Most font packages call it old style figures.
In typography class we were taught to call the lining and non-lining figures.
rustydrd@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 277d
IDK, I don't think old style and lining figures are analogous to lower- and uppercase letters. They're not really different glyphs, at least not like lower- and uppercase letters are, and I would see them more as different ways of typesetting the same glyph.
Edit: Wikipedia does not agree with me.
joelfromaus@aussie.zone · 5 pts · 277d
6 and 8 being all “no one tells me what to do!” and staying the same.
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 277d
That can be used to play pranks on people...
the_mighty_kracken@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 276d
The typical use for the "lower case" numbers is in body copy, because that style of number fits in better with the old style and transitional fonts that are typically used there. So, you are most likely to see them when you are reading a book or an article, but not in the headlines or chapter titles.
Source: just sat through a lecture on this last week in Intro Typography.
BanMe@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 276d
That's traditional but today I think most people remember them from signage and logos, shops and boutique firms love having 4s in their names because it looks so nice old style next to another number. Like Table 42 or maybe 10th Street Bar where the 0 is old style, with the dot or bar under it. A lot of websites also use it in headers because it looks more sophisticated and old-money. I am not sure how many people read books and body copy anymore, but I like the idea that it still happens!
200ok@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 277d
Neat-lowercase0
CannedYeet@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 277d
𝟙𝟚𝟛𝟜𝟝𝟞𝟟𝟠𝟡𝟘
MisterFrog@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 276d
I don't know why, but I LOVE Blackboard Bold characters
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 277d
Just use an exclamation mark. It'll be fine. Like so:
5!
10!
See? No real difference and now the number feels bigger!
Siethron@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 277d
Big difference there, those are
120
3628800
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 277d
I think you mean:
120!
3628800!
Really emphasize it, ya know!?
modus@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 277d
Embiggened by several factors.
Dicska@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 277d
Calculator 2: The Overbiggening
Jeeve65@ttrpg.network · 18 pts · 277d
I'm not sure if Roman Numerals are the best choice for statistics
sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 10 pts · 277d
iii III!
ik5pvx@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 277d
It's made up numbers anyway...
And009@lemmynsfw.com · 1 pts · 277d
So is Arabic
zloubida@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 277d
— It will cost you $253. — Are you kidding me? TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY THREE DOLLARS?
wuffah@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 277d
$253? Try, SEVENTEEN THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED AND NINETY SIX DOLLARS!
mossberg590@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 277d
Um, @&$!#
Test_Tickles@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 277d
That explains a lot. It turns out people often switch to upper case speaking numbers to me.
driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br · 12 pts · 277d
They are in the Chinese numbers.
NorthWestWind@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 277d
陸柒 (/s)
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 277d
PG, DNLMHGC
/joke (Cantonese people should know xD)
FauxPseudo@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 277d
You can use absolute numbers like ”The answer to life, the universe and everything is |42|.”
Jankatarch@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 277d
What if the number is negative, do I say "-|42|?"
FauxPseudo@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 277d
Please surrender your license to math.
altphoto@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 277d
XXXXII!!!!!!! So simple!
Fleur_@aussie.zone · 10 pts · 277d
EIGHT
squirrel@piefed.zip · 7 pts · 277d
EIGHT
otter@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 10 pts · 277d
I guess OP's never seen Roman numerals before. 🤪🤓
altphoto@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 277d
Although, the romans never saw one trillion anything.
altphoto@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 277d
VXXXII!
Don_alForno@feddit.org · 10 pts · 277d
Use roman numerals.
irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 277d
ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE
zedgeist@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 277d
SIX SEVEN EIGHT NINE TEN, ELEVEN TWELVE
qevlarr@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 277d
Chinese entered the chat
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 277d
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRuVjJTjszM
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 277d
I'm ethnic Chinese* and I'm entering the chat
(*Chinese American)
And I'll conquer the fediverse with 壹貳參肆伍陸柒捌玖拾
wuffah@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 277d
How about, ONE POINT SEVEN FIVE TRILLION KILOGRAMS PER HECTARE SQUARED!
Or perhaps, TEN BILLION FOOT POUNDS PER SQUARE INCH!
Or even, FOURTEEN MILLION ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY FIVE THOUSAND, TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY THREE CUBIC DECILITERS PER YEAR!
antimidas@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 277d
For some reason this reminds me of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COBOL](the COBOL programming language), though not even COBOL was batshit enough to use numerals written in plain English. Everything else was in plain English, though, which was supposed to make it easier to read and write, but is in reality a horrible idea.
Though all caps just reminds me of early programming languages in general, since we didn't separate uppercase and lowercase in all machines back then, instead using encoding schemes like DEC SIXBIT. Saving memory by using only six bits per character instead of seven or eight, and such. Six bit characters had matching word lengths, before the concept of a byte there used to be loads of 12-bit and 36-bit architectures, that more-or-less went away when the industry almost collectively decided to take byte-addressed memory into use.
stardustpathsofglory@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 276d
¹²³4
GladiusB@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 276d
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
LemmyKnowsBest@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 276d
Oh so that's what exponents are for. They're just lowercase numbers in the sky.
Professorozone@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 277d
9oo.
Just sayin'.
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org · 1 pts · 277d
Yup, typographers differentiate lowercase and uppercase numerals. Lowercase 9 goes below the baseline though, 6oo is a better example.
Professorozone@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 276d
TIL.
Kushan@lemmynsfw.com · 5 pts · 277d
This ONE reason will shock you.
meep_launcher@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 277d
I don't know how to explain it, but 5 is loud
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 277d
That’s what lining numbers are
OddMinus1@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 277d
That makes me wonder, why are there capital letters in the first place? Could we not have done fine without them? There is no reason why each sentence has to start with a capital letter, it only adds another level of complexity to the written language. Names and titles would be just fine in lower case. I can write larger letters rather than using capital letters to express loudness. "Startrek into/Into Darkness" could finally have a common consensus on correct capitalization.
Damn.
antimidas@sopuli.xyz · 14 pts · 277d
Because of redundancy. Modern written language has a lot of features that make it easier to read, that were added as society became more literal. Things like capitalization, punctuation (a surprisingly recent addition), even separately marking vowels wasn't a given for all writing systems (see old Hebrew as an example). Capital letter in the start of a sentence saves you from picking that up from context, especially when coupled together with the stop (.) signifying the end of it. Redundancy is actually a very natural phenomenon, and spoken language has loads more compared to written examples.
It's complexity that aids the understanding, trading some of the simplicity and speed of writing to better reading comprehension. As per why capital and lowercase, in latin script capitals are derived from the letters that were chiseled, lowercase used to be just a handwritten thing. Written language naturally evolved to make use of these two systems to aid in reading. So things like capitalization are actually completely opposite from added complexity, actually making the language easier to comprehend after a bit of an initial learning curve.
antimidas@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 277d
To hammer the point through here's the same comment with the "complexity" removed, a bit more akin to tokenized text:
Lazylazycat@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 277d
This is so interesting, thank you.
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 277d
Because English is weird, in Chinese Language, it doesn't even need much spacing between words and you can write it vertically or read right to left. Lol
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 277d
It makes things with several sentences easier to read.
RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 276d
Musicians sing capital numbers as song intros all the time. Especially in the 50s.
thatradomguy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 276d
67
mvirts@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 277d
The numbers are always yelling
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 277d
They actually are. And there are lowercase numbers in several fonts, which people really should use more.