Even if they want to believe that there are only two genders that doesn't mean that someone can't transition from one to the other. Even under the rules they are so desperate to establish trans people still exist.
The point is to carve away at our community piece by piece. They mostly lost the fight against binary trans people in public perception, so they've retreated to attacking nonbinary people. If they successfully turn public perception against us, they'll come for the binaries next.
That's unironically a good way of thinking about it.
One of my proudest achievements in life is having used particle-wave duality to explain non-binary gender to a bunch of cis-het physics-bros, and also using non-binary gender to explain quantum physics to queer folk. I'm disproportionately pleased with having been able to use this explanation successfully both ways.
(I also think it says a lot about me that I have found myself in situations where it isn't uncommon that I get an opportunity to attempt this. Explaining gender to passively bigoted cis-hets feels like it's part of my ethical duty to the world, but menacing my friends with quantum physics monologues is just for fun)
So until around 1902, it was near unanimously agreed that light was a wave, because it does all the stuff that waves do, like diffracting — we wouldn't have rainbows, or the cool Pink Floyd album cover with a prism splitting light into a rainbow otherwise.
What changed in 1902 is that an experiment (called the photoelectric effect, if you're curious) produced results that would have only been possible if light was a particle. The photoelectric effect had been observed a bunch of times through the 1800s, but in 1902, a variant of the experiment produced results that would be impossible to explain if light were a wave. So then people start asking "okay, maybe we were wrong, maybe light is actually a particle". Except that didn't square with the centuries of evidence showing that light was a wave.
It turns out that light is both a particle and as wave. Or maybe neither. Because the key concept here is that particles and waves don't exist. They're just conceptual categories that we made to put boxes around phenomena to make them more understandable, much the same way that binary gender is a simplifying framework that works until it doesn't.
Now, this doesn't mean that the underlying phenomena, like light being diffracted, or the photoelectric effect, aren't real. The problem was in our framework of how we labelled them. Once physicists got their head around the possibility that light could be both a particle and a wave, they realised that there were a bunch of other situations where we could model light as a particle and discover interesting stuff. Most people don't need to understand this, because the simplified model of everything being either a particle or a wave works well enough that even if it's not correct, it's still useful — these categories developed for a reason, after all. By analogy, it's like if I said "women have breasts". It's true in most instances, so it can still be a useful observation, even if it's not strictly accurate.
However, it gets even more interesting. At first, scientists thought that light must just be a special kind of phenomenon, able to exhibit both particle and wave characteristics. But then, in the double slit experiment, they found that under certain circumstances, electrons (which were near unanimously considered to be particles) could diffract — i.e. act like waves. This was the result that really drove home the notion that when we're studying stuff that are super small and specific, our existing rules and categories sort of fall apart. It's even been suggested that other things that we squarely consider to be particles could show wave nature too, but the larger you get in scale, the harder it is to observe quantum phenomena (which basically just means that our rules work well when they're applied to the circumstances we developed those rules under. "Quantum phenomena" mostly just means "shit that happens when we're so zoomed in that our existing frameworks stop working")
In a sense, we could say that light behaving as a particle is analogous to a non binary man, and electrons behaving as a wave is analogous to a non binary woman. Maybe it would be more sensible to dispense with these categories entirely, but there are many phenomena and many people who find the terms useful.
Glad you liked it. I always appreciate an opportunity to practice my science communication skills (I JUST WANT EVERYONE TO FIND THIS STUFF AS DEEPLY FASCINATING AS I DO. I AM EXTREMELY NORMAL.)
My little brother, I'm fairly certain, pioneered this technique in dealing with our racist parents.
My parents would say something casually awful, about LGBTQ, Black, Latino, or Muslim people and my lil bro would sarcastically, and enthusiastically agree, stringing their point along to the logical conclusion of their hate-centered universe, and watch them get more and more uncomfortable.
example:
parents: "Black people are just genetically more violent"
lil Bro: "Oh yeah, they're genetically inferior all right, and genes can be altered before birth, so we should treat melanin as a genetic anomaly and edit it entirely out. we should put the rest in cages and make them perform like in a zoo. Everyone who isn't perfectly milky alabaster white should be shot out of a cannon and into the sun. My freckles are a sin to god and we should cut them out of our bodies ritualistically. My friend Gary is black, let's go fucking shoot him for it."
Parents: 😶
I had been away for a minute and watched it happen for the first time, and I laughed, applauded, and clapped my bro on the back... So proud of him.
Seems to me the number of genders depends on the culture. If your culture says there are only two genders, then there are two, in that culture. If your culture says there are more than two, then there are more than two, in that culture.
anti-trans people will just say "our culture only has two" and that will be the end of their argument.
It's just a statement of fact. Some cultures only identify two genders. If you live in such a culture, and you disagree with that aspect of the culture, you have a few choices: try to change that aspect of the culture through advocacy, try to force change somehow, like by using state authority, or leave and join another culture that more closely aligns with your beliefs. I would probably at least try advocacy at first, but it can be a challenge. Some cultures are very resistant to change, especially on matters such as gender.
62 Comments
homoludens@feddit.org · 85 pts · 214d
I thought the two genders were non-binary and binary?
erictile@lemmy.world · 49 pts · 214d
Analog and binary.
veroxii@aussie.zone · 11 pts · 214d
Well analog is pretty much a spectrum, so not wrong!
Suburbanl3g3nd@lemmings.world · 8 pts · 213d
Analog and digital or nothing at all
unknown@piefed.social · 3 pts · 213d
Analog and cybergoth
gray@lemmy.ml · 24 pts · 214d
Gender and non-gender
aeronmelon@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 214d
Gender and anti-gender.
Thassodar@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 214d
Roadhouse: Swayze and anti-Swayze
SharkWeek@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 214d
Bgugi@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 214d
There are 10 genders:
0: binary 1: non-binary
And also 2-F additional hexadecigenders you didn't expect me to mention.
UnpledgedCatnapTipper@piefed.blahaj.zone · 11 pts · 214d
The 2 genders are True and False. True for "I have a gender" and False for "I have no gender".
fnrir@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 213d
Option<OldGender>? Or maybeEither<&'a str, OldGender>?SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 214d
How many bits?
TheBat@lemmy.world · 42 pts · 214d
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 34 pts · 214d
https://theonion.com/deformed-freak-born-without-penis-1819575921/
caseyweederman@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 214d
You forgot Cool Hat.
radio@sh.itjust.works · 21 pts · 214d
Even if they want to believe that there are only two genders that doesn't mean that someone can't transition from one to the other. Even under the rules they are so desperate to establish trans people still exist.
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net · 21 pts · 214d
The point is to carve away at our community piece by piece. They mostly lost the fight against binary trans people in public perception, so they've retreated to attacking nonbinary people. If they successfully turn public perception against us, they'll come for the binaries next.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 213d
Not to mention the existence of intersex people...
atopi@piefed.blahaj.zone · 15 pts · 214d
gender is binary. Your gender is either 0 or 1
since people have yet to associate numbers with gender expression , you can define the 2 genders however you want
gnuplusmatt@reddthat.com · 11 pts · 214d
Perhaps gender is a quantum state and no one knows what or where it is until you measure it and its quantum state collapses
AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net · 13 pts · 213d
That's unironically a good way of thinking about it.
One of my proudest achievements in life is having used particle-wave duality to explain non-binary gender to a bunch of cis-het physics-bros, and also using non-binary gender to explain quantum physics to queer folk. I'm disproportionately pleased with having been able to use this explanation successfully both ways.
(I also think it says a lot about me that I have found myself in situations where it isn't uncommon that I get an opportunity to attempt this. Explaining gender to passively bigoted cis-hets feels like it's part of my ethical duty to the world, but menacing my friends with quantum physics monologues is just for fun)
gray@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 213d
Don't be shy, show your work (I am queer)
AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 213d
So until around 1902, it was near unanimously agreed that light was a wave, because it does all the stuff that waves do, like diffracting — we wouldn't have rainbows, or the cool Pink Floyd album cover with a prism splitting light into a rainbow otherwise.
What changed in 1902 is that an experiment (called the photoelectric effect, if you're curious) produced results that would have only been possible if light was a particle. The photoelectric effect had been observed a bunch of times through the 1800s, but in 1902, a variant of the experiment produced results that would be impossible to explain if light were a wave. So then people start asking "okay, maybe we were wrong, maybe light is actually a particle". Except that didn't square with the centuries of evidence showing that light was a wave.
It turns out that light is both a particle and as wave. Or maybe neither. Because the key concept here is that particles and waves don't exist. They're just conceptual categories that we made to put boxes around phenomena to make them more understandable, much the same way that binary gender is a simplifying framework that works until it doesn't.
Now, this doesn't mean that the underlying phenomena, like light being diffracted, or the photoelectric effect, aren't real. The problem was in our framework of how we labelled them. Once physicists got their head around the possibility that light could be both a particle and a wave, they realised that there were a bunch of other situations where we could model light as a particle and discover interesting stuff. Most people don't need to understand this, because the simplified model of everything being either a particle or a wave works well enough that even if it's not correct, it's still useful — these categories developed for a reason, after all. By analogy, it's like if I said "women have breasts". It's true in most instances, so it can still be a useful observation, even if it's not strictly accurate.
However, it gets even more interesting. At first, scientists thought that light must just be a special kind of phenomenon, able to exhibit both particle and wave characteristics. But then, in the double slit experiment, they found that under certain circumstances, electrons (which were near unanimously considered to be particles) could diffract — i.e. act like waves. This was the result that really drove home the notion that when we're studying stuff that are super small and specific, our existing rules and categories sort of fall apart. It's even been suggested that other things that we squarely consider to be particles could show wave nature too, but the larger you get in scale, the harder it is to observe quantum phenomena (which basically just means that our rules work well when they're applied to the circumstances we developed those rules under. "Quantum phenomena" mostly just means "shit that happens when we're so zoomed in that our existing frameworks stop working")
In a sense, we could say that light behaving as a particle is analogous to a non binary man, and electrons behaving as a wave is analogous to a non binary woman. Maybe it would be more sensible to dispense with these categories entirely, but there are many phenomena and many people who find the terms useful.
gray@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 213d
This is great, thanks!
AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 213d
Glad you liked it. I always appreciate an opportunity to practice my science communication skills (I JUST WANT EVERYONE TO FIND THIS STUFF AS DEEPLY FASCINATING AS I DO. I AM EXTREMELY NORMAL.)
faythofdragons@slrpnk.net · 9 pts · 213d
Excuse me, in binary there are 10 genders.
Hupf@feddit.org · 7 pts · 213d
Gender is binary. I'm 10110110
Burninator05@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 213d
That's amazing! I'm 01001001. We should meet up.
RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com · 4 pts · 213d
👉👈
craftrabbit@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 213d
11000100
Hupf@feddit.org · 4 pts · 213d
There should probably also be a bitmask to determine mutual compatibility
kaulquappus@feddit.org · 5 pts · 214d
If you're currently at a 0, is it possible to engender yourself up to 1?
humorlessrepost@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 214d
It happened once from a cosmic ray during a Mario64 speed run.
brsrklf@jlai.lu · 1 pts · 213d
"A gender press is a gender press you can't say it's only a half"
TJ "Henry" Yoshi, before being taught better
humorlessrepost@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 213d
Since half an a-press is starting the level with it already pressed, I think staying your gender assigned at birth would be half a gender press.
jpreston2005@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 213d
My little brother, I'm fairly certain, pioneered this technique in dealing with our racist parents.
My parents would say something casually awful, about LGBTQ, Black, Latino, or Muslim people and my lil bro would sarcastically, and enthusiastically agree, stringing their point along to the logical conclusion of their hate-centered universe, and watch them get more and more uncomfortable.
example:
parents: "Black people are just genetically more violent"
lil Bro: "Oh yeah, they're genetically inferior all right, and genes can be altered before birth, so we should treat melanin as a genetic anomaly and edit it entirely out. we should put the rest in cages and make them perform like in a zoo. Everyone who isn't perfectly milky alabaster white should be shot out of a cannon and into the sun. My freckles are a sin to god and we should cut them out of our bodies ritualistically. My friend Gary is black, let's go fucking shoot him for it."
Parents: 😶
I had been away for a minute and watched it happen for the first time, and I laughed, applauded, and clapped my bro on the back... So proud of him.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 214d
Why you want their to be only two genders, mate? You want to be around more men, issit?
bored_gamer@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 214d
Laser@feddit.org · 11 pts · 213d
I still love Biden's answer to the question how many genders there are
He probably didn't come up with it but it's still so funny to me
HK65@sopuli.xyz · 8 pts · 213d
What was it
Jomega@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 213d
"At least 3"
shani66@ani.social · 7 pts · 213d
Okay that's a great answer
sirico@feddit.uk · 9 pts · 214d
I have an agender but I keep forgetting to check it
myotheraccount@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 214d
Do you have dyslgbtqia?
libre_warrior@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 213d
There are two genders, bootlickers and those who have ripened.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 213d
spankinspinach@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 214d
I've never seen such an intolerant post. You're either old enough to rent ultra-porn, or you need a fake ID
FE80@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 213d
AC and DC.
gray@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 214d
1 and 0
xxce2AAb@feddit.dk · 6 pts · 214d
"Okay. Not going to lie. That's kinda hot."
"I know, right?"
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 5 pts · 214d
No bonus panel
edit see grue comment
grue@lemmy.world · 44 pts · 214d
::: spoiler bonus panel
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 6 pts · 214d
Worth the wait!
But only because I am one of the three!
florge@feddit.uk · 5 pts · 214d
There's a red button
DagwoodIII@piefed.social · 2 pts · 214d
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/gender-2%20#smbc
kdcd@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 214d
i took the hashtag away from the link. try again
FishFace@piefed.social · 7 pts · 214d
That's a hash character, or fragment identifier. A hashtag is a topic keyword introduced by a hash character, not the character itself.
agent_nycto@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 213d
Robots and Aliens
TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 214d
Seems to me the number of genders depends on the culture. If your culture says there are only two genders, then there are two, in that culture. If your culture says there are more than two, then there are more than two, in that culture.
Deceptichum@quokk.au · 17 pts · 214d
caseyweederman@lemmy.ca · 10 pts · 214d
That it was constructed by society??
Grail@multiverse.soulism.net · 3 pts · 214d
I dunno, sounds soulist
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 213d
The problem with this argument is that the anti-trans people will just say "our culture only has two" and that will be the end of their argument.
TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 213d
It's just a statement of fact. Some cultures only identify two genders. If you live in such a culture, and you disagree with that aspect of the culture, you have a few choices: try to change that aspect of the culture through advocacy, try to force change somehow, like by using state authority, or leave and join another culture that more closely aligns with your beliefs. I would probably at least try advocacy at first, but it can be a challenge. Some cultures are very resistant to change, especially on matters such as gender.
rockerface@lemmy.cafe · 1 pts · 214d
I can't decide whether this is an intentional Jujutsu Kaisen reference or an accidental Jujutsu Kaisen reference because both are funny.
Ceruleum@lemmy.wtf · 1 pts · 211d
What if you are both?