And if they resist (being alive counts as resistance) and are armed (or were armed at some point in the recent past), ICE has suggested a method for handling those "arrests."
It would be hillarious if ICE won a court case where they held someone without due process, then the police use that same case to hold ICE without due process
Give them due process, let them see a judge, who will declare them a flight risk, and order them to stay in jail until their trial in 6-9 months. Let ICE try to break them out of jail.
Seems like in a world where cops are allowed to shoot whoever resists that there is actually a pretty easy way to handle a bunch of ICE goons with like two days of training.
ICE and CBP personnel in Minneapolis outnumber state and local police in Minneapolis. It's a bit more complicated than just "arrest ICE and shoot them if they resist."
It would also be the literal start to the second american civil war. Everything so far has been leading up to it, but that would ignite the powder keg. Unless the state guard is ready to defend against a DoD invasion, lighting the keg in an official capacity is inadvisable. Maga is drooling at the mouth for public executions.
The longer we can delay full-on civil war, the better. tRump & co want things to accelerate as fast as possible. Don't give them what they want.
And before you say "we're already at war," this is not what war looks like. Not even close. Don't exaggerate, or else you might learn all too soon what a real war looks like.
Oh, and which one do you think is more interested in fighting in the streets of Minnesota? The actual people who live there and swore to protect the people of that state, or a bunch of Jan 6 goons who had 40 minutes of training and were flipping burgers last week?
Your formulation orients the answer as if it were obvious, but Jan 6 goons did prove on Jan 6 that they were very interested in fighting. Not necessarily competently, but at least enthusiastically.
Right. The point I am making is that they are a substantially less effective fighting force than actual trained law enforcement officers AND are far less interested in actually doing it.
Given how quickly they bitched out after what's her face took a round I don't think they were interested in fighting pillage, rape, and kill sure but actually fight? They showed their cowardice.
That doesn't really matter, because in order to chase ICE out of Minnesota you would need to present a forceful deterrent, and that's numerically unfeasible when you have less personnel and a smaller budget.
ICE/CBP could have 30 squads of 100 goons roaming around different parts of Minneapolis. Even if state and local agencies operated on an "all hands on deck" basis (which is untenable over a span of days or weeks), at most they would be able to have 26 groups of 100 personnel, or 30 groups of 86 personnel. Either way, it's not really the show of force that would be required for what you're asking. Especially when they're at a material disadvantage when it comes to hardware.
Especially if DHS decides to send in reinforcements...
ICE is already struggling to find personnel to deploy to this, you really think they keep showing up if they start getting arrested? They don't HAVE reinforcements.
Remember: These jobs suck. The only people doing this are a handful of true believers that actually believe they are achieving something and people with no better options. There is not an infinite pool of people available to do this. When the job gets harder, riskier, or just less pleasant, that pool gets smaller.
Yes, they want to destroy the civic order, and no matter how much damage they do to it, we can't let their destruction become total. Because as soon as we stop holding together the fabric of society, all is lost.
No matter how hopeless it gets, we must refuse to give into lawlessness and chaos. That doesn't mean we should tolerate intolerance or lawlessness, but it means we should insist, above all, on civility and maintaining pro-sociality.
We mustn't let hatred infect our minds, because if we do, we cannot present a unified front. The resistance would tear itself apart with infighting. There are already many agents attempting to sow such division a discord, posing as "leftists" and advocating for chaos and destruction. We mustn't let them win.
That's how all the politicians and authority figures have been acting. It's because in reality, he doesn't control his gang (the MPD).
His gang supports this shit but he's the public face of the gang and has to act like they aren't loving all of this. Mind you this is the same police force that kicked of BLM because of murdering a civilian.
They don't give a shit about human life and this is just fucking theater.
Edit: added some punctuation and fixed a typo to improve the sentence structure.
This is CRAZY! And as the Chief of Police I want to say it's HORRIBLE that UNKNOWN, MASKED, ARMED MEN are MURDERING AMERICANS IN THE STREETS! It's BAD! I want you to KNOW this because I'm NOT going to Arrest or in ANY way shape or form slow Down these UNKNOWN DANGEROUS MURDERERS!
You should really put these posts on Twitter, you'll have a million followers cheering you on and agreeing with everything you say in no time while the joke goes so far over their head they wouldn't be able to see it with a telescope.
MAGAs are trying to blame the mayor and governor for not deploying the local PD to protect ICE Apes. There are 3000 ICE Apes, and 600 local cops. Are the ICE Apes such pussies that they can't protect themselves?
Or maybe they just want the locals around to act as scapegoats for their own incompetence.
Cops steal the power and responsibilities of community defense from the people, and nothing upsets them more than someone else showing them up. In fact, I imagine that police chiefs are far more distraught to hear that neighborhoods are organizing their own patrols and security networks than they are about the murders.
Ok then Brian, how about you and your department go oh I don't know do your jobs?
I'm tired of seeing cops and politicians on TV or twitter just ensuring they get a good sound bite and not actually do anything. It's like the Mayor of Minneapolis who is all "fuck ice" ok then bro, tell your police chief...literally this guy...to go arrest them and kick them out.
By themselves, they are outmanned and outgunned. There's been multiple stories about how they show up even with some order by a judge in hand and ICE/CBP just ignores them. From a practical perspective, they don't have much recourse if ICE/CBP ignores the law and has the force.
Yeah, this is the amazing thing, to me. Sure, it's only words, and I have no doubt that the chief has cheerfully beaten plenty of Minneapolisonians senseless and taught the technique of police brutality & corruption to his employees. He's no good guy. You can tell by the badge. But I srsly can't remember seeing a top-level cop on camera calling out other cops.
It doesn't mean much, but it means some fraction of something.
This cannot be a healthy attitude though. Like, a police force is one of the basic requirements of a society of even moderate size. The police suck much, much harder than they should, but I absolutely cannot believe that everybody working in law enforcement everywhere is an irredeemable cunt. That cannot be the correct take here
You seem to have developed a taste for boot, sailor. There is simply too much evidence that your take is not just complete bullshit, it's fucking dangerous.
Eh. I've met police. They've actually been helpful to me when I was on the receiving end of a home break in. They serve a purpose. A lot of them are racist, sexist, violent thugs. But their role is nonetheless essential, and some of them can be decent. An unpoliced society has been trialed multiple times. I am not aware of any attempts where it worked out.
Home invasions aren't just about "stuff." Even if "they just want your TV bro" it's about no longer feeling safe and secure in your home where you "should" be able to (those of us home invaded and untrusting know that there's not really such thing as total safety, just relative safety, but most expect it even if it is naïve innocence.) What's more sometimes home invaders steal your TV, sometimes they're Richard Chase, B.T.K, The Nightstalker, some people get murdered or raped or both in their own home by an intruder. And even in cases of alleged gangstalking where someone(s) breaks in and moves shit around or leaves something rather than even taking anything, with the clear message "we can get in here, you're not safe." It's not about the "stuff."
Idk, maybe until your home gets broken into and your roommate gets pistol whipped and you're all too poor to go to the hospital so we just superglued his head back together (didn't work great, actually), you can't know how it feels and are just stuck in the materialist "stuff" mindset, but yeah it can really mentally fuck people up actually.
(Of course, the police still don't help with that as they always show up after, guns help.)
If I learned anything from the 2020 era... It's to not have hope that people have changed or will change.
I'm already to the point I believe USA is dead. Part of how we got here is our privileged naive culture and it saddens me that some people are only trying to go back to that false lifestyle of faux freedom and safety. They will fight trump only go back to the data mining, surveillance, categorized mass produced lifestyles that are made to herd the people into categories.
If USA was a computer, we need a new hard drive with a good Linux distro. This fight shouldn't be for a virus removal, or even a reformat to reinstall windows. If we do that we can expect the repetition of history.
82 Comments
13igTyme@piefed.social · 219 pts · 234d
Then start arresting them. Even if you can only hold them for 24 hours and they go free, it starts to send a message and gets them off the street.
WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com · 118 pts · 234d
And if they resist (being alive counts as resistance) and are armed (or were armed at some point in the recent past), ICE has suggested a method for handling those "arrests."
bluegreenpurplepink@lemmy.world · 86 pts · 234d
Wouldn't there also be a publicly available mug shot? Good way to unmask them.
Steve@startrek.website · 48 pts · 234d
Just keep holding them without due process. Why the fuck not?
Sonicdemon86@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 234d
Then involuntary psychiatric hold. Legal and can keep them off the streets for 72 hours.
Steve@startrek.website · 16 pts · 234d
Declare them a danger to others, keep forever.
87Six@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 234d
It would be hillarious if ICE won a court case where they held someone without due process, then the police use that same case to hold ICE without due process
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 12 pts · 234d
These MAGA dopes never understand that their bullshit can cut both ways. We should force them to taste their own medicine as much as possible.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 234d
Give them due process, let them see a judge, who will declare them a flight risk, and order them to stay in jail until their trial in 6-9 months. Let ICE try to break them out of jail.
UnspecificGravity@piefed.social · 33 pts · 234d
Seems like in a world where cops are allowed to shoot whoever resists that there is actually a pretty easy way to handle a bunch of ICE goons with like two days of training.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 30 pts · 234d
ICE and CBP personnel in Minneapolis outnumber state and local police in Minneapolis. It's a bit more complicated than just "arrest ICE and shoot them if they resist."
It would also be the literal start to the second american civil war. Everything so far has been leading up to it, but that would ignite the powder keg. Unless the state guard is ready to defend against a DoD invasion, lighting the keg in an official capacity is inadvisable. Maga is drooling at the mouth for public executions.
The longer we can delay full-on civil war, the better. tRump & co want things to accelerate as fast as possible. Don't give them what they want.
And before you say "we're already at war," this is not what war looks like. Not even close. Don't exaggerate, or else you might learn all too soon what a real war looks like.
UnspecificGravity@piefed.social · 11 pts · 234d
Oh, and which one do you think is more interested in fighting in the streets of Minnesota? The actual people who live there and swore to protect the people of that state, or a bunch of Jan 6 goons who had 40 minutes of training and were flipping burgers last week?
gbzm@piefed.social · 11 pts · 234d
Your formulation orients the answer as if it were obvious, but Jan 6 goons did prove on Jan 6 that they were very interested in fighting. Not necessarily competently, but at least enthusiastically.
UnspecificGravity@piefed.social · 4 pts · 234d
Right. The point I am making is that they are a substantially less effective fighting force than actual trained law enforcement officers AND are far less interested in actually doing it.
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 233d
Given how quickly they bitched out after what's her face took a round I don't think they were interested in fighting pillage, rape, and kill sure but actually fight? They showed their cowardice.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 234d
That doesn't really matter, because in order to chase ICE out of Minnesota you would need to present a forceful deterrent, and that's numerically unfeasible when you have less personnel and a smaller budget.
ICE/CBP could have 30 squads of 100 goons roaming around different parts of Minneapolis. Even if state and local agencies operated on an "all hands on deck" basis (which is untenable over a span of days or weeks), at most they would be able to have 26 groups of 100 personnel, or 30 groups of 86 personnel. Either way, it's not really the show of force that would be required for what you're asking. Especially when they're at a material disadvantage when it comes to hardware.
Especially if DHS decides to send in reinforcements...
UnspecificGravity@piefed.social · 0 pts · 234d
ICE is already struggling to find personnel to deploy to this, you really think they keep showing up if they start getting arrested? They don't HAVE reinforcements.
Remember: These jobs suck. The only people doing this are a handful of true believers that actually believe they are achieving something and people with no better options. There is not an infinite pool of people available to do this. When the job gets harder, riskier, or just less pleasant, that pool gets smaller.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 5 pts · 234d
That "if they start getting arrested" part is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
How are you going to start arresting people who have you outnumbered, out-armored, and out-armed?
Some people lack all understanding of combat logistics, and it shows.
UnspecificGravity@piefed.social · 2 pts · 234d
It sure does. You seem to be operating under the assumption that the entirety of ICE is standing there on the street of Minneapolis. That's weird.
parody@lemmings.world · 3 pts · 234d
Fascists <3 violence and hate elections and we can’t let them win
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 234d
Yes, they want to destroy the civic order, and no matter how much damage they do to it, we can't let their destruction become total. Because as soon as we stop holding together the fabric of society, all is lost.
No matter how hopeless it gets, we must refuse to give into lawlessness and chaos. That doesn't mean we should tolerate intolerance or lawlessness, but it means we should insist, above all, on civility and maintaining pro-sociality.
We mustn't let hatred infect our minds, because if we do, we cannot present a unified front. The resistance would tear itself apart with infighting. There are already many agents attempting to sow such division a discord, posing as "leftists" and advocating for chaos and destruction. We mustn't let them win.
parody@lemmings.world · 1 pts · 217d
Amen!
MisterOwl@lemmy.world · 107 pts · 234d
Hot air.
Are you going to act or just yap like a little dog? You're a chief of fucking police. Ohhhh, you don't actually care? Gotcha.
ITeeTechMonkey@lemmy.world · 56 pts · 234d
That's how all the politicians and authority figures have been acting. It's because in reality, he doesn't control his gang (the MPD).
His gang supports this shit but he's the public face of the gang and has to act like they aren't loving all of this. Mind you this is the same police force that kicked of BLM because of murdering a civilian.
They don't give a shit about human life and this is just fucking theater.
Edit: added some punctuation and fixed a typo to improve the sentence structure.
Montagge@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 234d
It's basically the same as the Hell's Angels doing community events.
bigfish@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 52 pts · 234d
Maybe he could like police his streets then? Removing thugs with guns is, like, his job.
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 42 pts · 234d
His job is to protect capital.
BigMacHole@sopuli.xyz · 37 pts · 234d
This is CRAZY! And as the Chief of Police I want to say it's HORRIBLE that UNKNOWN, MASKED, ARMED MEN are MURDERING AMERICANS IN THE STREETS! It's BAD! I want you to KNOW this because I'm NOT going to Arrest or in ANY way shape or form slow Down these UNKNOWN DANGEROUS MURDERERS!
Lydia_K@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 234d
You should really put these posts on Twitter, you'll have a million followers cheering you on and agreeing with everything you say in no time while the joke goes so far over their head they wouldn't be able to see it with a telescope.
BigMacHole@sopuli.xyz · 9 pts · 234d
The CHILD PORN on Elon Musk's Twitter DETERS me Not INTRIGUES me because I only PRETEND to be Republican but I'm not ACTUALLY one!
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 34 pts · 234d
MAGAs are trying to blame the mayor and governor for not deploying the local PD to protect ICE Apes. There are 3000 ICE Apes, and 600 local cops. Are the ICE Apes such pussies that they can't protect themselves?
Or maybe they just want the locals around to act as scapegoats for their own incompetence.
Soup@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 234d
Answer: Yes!
Akh@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 234d
Words are meaningless. Take action
Draegur@lemmy.zip · 24 pts · 234d
Even the pigs be like "slow your fucking roll you psychos"
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 234d
Not just the pigs, the Minneapolis "BLM protest instigators" pigs. This is the police department that killed George Floyd
Draegur@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 233d
The worst of the thirty to fifty feral hogs infestation. Damn...!
infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net · 23 pts · 234d
Rival gangs / warlords
Cops steal the power and responsibilities of community defense from the people, and nothing upsets them more than someone else showing them up. In fact, I imagine that police chiefs are far more distraught to hear that neighborhoods are organizing their own patrols and security networks than they are about the murders.
mika_mika@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 234d
They should be working in tangent if they are worth their salt.
some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 233d
*in tandem And yes, 100%!
rozodru@piefed.social · 22 pts · 234d
Ok then Brian, how about you and your department go oh I don't know do your jobs?
I'm tired of seeing cops and politicians on TV or twitter just ensuring they get a good sound bite and not actually do anything. It's like the Mayor of Minneapolis who is all "fuck ice" ok then bro, tell your police chief...literally this guy...to go arrest them and kick them out.
jj4211@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 234d
By themselves, they are outmanned and outgunned. There's been multiple stories about how they show up even with some order by a judge in hand and ICE/CBP just ignores them. From a practical perspective, they don't have much recourse if ICE/CBP ignores the law and has the force.
Draegur@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 234d
Deputize the community and ICE is handily outnumbered again. Mobilize the state's National Guard as observers.
mika_mika@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 234d
We need to stand side by side with our judges and leos to enact our own force on these goons it sounds like.
Agent641@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 234d
Never thought I'd die fighting side by side with a LEO.
Marshezezz@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 233d
BanMe@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 234d
Yes. Panthers for a new age. Liberals need the 2nd Amendment to back up the 1st.
Triumph@fedia.io · 19 pts · 234d
You got guns, make it stop.
some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org · 16 pts · 233d
The cool part is how my mother voted for the asshole again, dissolving our relationship. /s
Fuck you, mom. You used to rock.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 233d
It's horrifying how cults can turn ordinary people into cruel, hateful monsters.
FilthyShrooms@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 234d
For some reason I don't believe this
Blackmist@feddit.uk · 7 pts · 234d
Weeeelll, no more than usual.
mika_mika@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 234d
Only those that deserved it, not this (white) kind.
ThatGuy46475@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 234d
They didn’t shoot him they kneeled on his neck
HeyJoe@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 234d
Picture shared here recently shows MN as the 8th safest state in the US. Absolutely should not be there. They just want them there.
LemmyBruceLeeMarvin@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 234d
This is not
sustainablelegalMushuChupacabra@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 234d
You know,this is a scenario where the general public wouldn't mind you using your ACAB powers on ICE.
The public will cover for you. Use that shit.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 233d
As we saw in 2020, The Minneapolis PD doesn't have to shoot people to murder them.
Jhex@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 234d
When the cops are (comparatively), the good guys...
DougHolland@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 234d
Yeah, this is the amazing thing, to me. Sure, it's only words, and I have no doubt that the chief has cheerfully beaten plenty of Minneapolisonians senseless and taught the technique of police brutality & corruption to his employees. He's no good guy. You can tell by the badge. But I srsly can't remember seeing a top-level cop on camera calling out other cops.
It doesn't mean much, but it means some fraction of something.
chemicalprophet@slrpnk.net · 5 pts · 234d
All cops are irredeemable bastards. You don’t get to untraitor…
silasmariner@programming.dev · 7 pts · 234d
This cannot be a healthy attitude though. Like, a police force is one of the basic requirements of a society of even moderate size. The police suck much, much harder than they should, but I absolutely cannot believe that everybody working in law enforcement everywhere is an irredeemable cunt. That cannot be the correct take here
Pat_Riot@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 234d
You seem to have developed a taste for boot, sailor. There is simply too much evidence that your take is not just complete bullshit, it's fucking dangerous.
silasmariner@programming.dev · 0 pts · 233d
Ok edgelord
Pat_Riot@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 233d
How do you not constantly walk into walls with your eyes closed so tight?
silasmariner@programming.dev · 0 pts · 233d
Eh. I've met police. They've actually been helpful to me when I was on the receiving end of a home break in. They serve a purpose. A lot of them are racist, sexist, violent thugs. But their role is nonetheless essential, and some of them can be decent. An unpoliced society has been trialed multiple times. I am not aware of any attempts where it worked out.
DougHolland@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 233d
All cops are not always bastards in all ways at all times, but ALL COPS ARE BASTARDS.
chemicalprophet@slrpnk.net · 1 pts · 233d
“Every society has the criminals it deserves.” ~’Red’ Emma Goldman
Time and energy are best spent on improving society not punishing those it left behind. Sorry about your stuff.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 3 pts · 233d
Tbf (and I have no dog in this fight other than:)
Home invasions aren't just about "stuff." Even if "they just want your TV bro" it's about no longer feeling safe and secure in your home where you "should" be able to (those of us home invaded and untrusting know that there's not really such thing as total safety, just relative safety, but most expect it even if it is naïve innocence.) What's more sometimes home invaders steal your TV, sometimes they're Richard Chase, B.T.K, The Nightstalker, some people get murdered or raped or both in their own home by an intruder. And even in cases of alleged gangstalking where someone(s) breaks in and moves shit around or leaves something rather than even taking anything, with the clear message "we can get in here, you're not safe." It's not about the "stuff."
Idk, maybe until your home gets broken into and your roommate gets pistol whipped and you're all too poor to go to the hospital so we just superglued his head back together (didn't work great, actually), you can't know how it feels and are just stuck in the materialist "stuff" mindset, but yeah it can really mentally fuck people up actually.
(Of course, the police still don't help with that as they always show up after, guns help.)
tordenflesk@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 234d
"not sustainable", as if he's cool with it as long is it doesn't mess with his stats...
Formfiller@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 233d
This stops when the Epstein files get aired in the open….so I guess never
brachiosaurus@mander.xyz · 3 pts · 234d
arrest the pedophile running the country if you are a cop
FatVegan@leminal.space · 2 pts · 234d
You can't arrest celebrities in america you silly goose.
IAmYouButYouDontKnowYet@reddthat.com · 2 pts · 234d
If I learned anything from the 2020 era... It's to not have hope that people have changed or will change.
I'm already to the point I believe USA is dead. Part of how we got here is our privileged naive culture and it saddens me that some people are only trying to go back to that false lifestyle of faux freedom and safety. They will fight trump only go back to the data mining, surveillance, categorized mass produced lifestyles that are made to herd the people into categories.
If USA was a computer, we need a new hard drive with a good Linux distro. This fight shouldn't be for a virus removal, or even a reformat to reinstall windows. If we do that we can expect the repetition of history.
BurgerBaron@piefed.social · 1 pts · 234d