If you're on this sub, this is a good programming exercise for you if you're interested. I'm sure there are plenty of large lists of words in English, that should provide all the data needed.
One important skill for school is to look at the entire question so that you can understand what the teacher is asking for, even if they don't format the question exactly right.
In this case, your answer would not fit into the 6 spaces provided for the answer.
So you have to ask yourself what they meant by "Write the following words". Since "the" is the same word repeated twice, once you've written "the" after 5, then I could argue that "the" has already been written.
Therefore, if there are only six blanks for the answer, looking at the entire question, I argue that the answer I provided is most likely correct.
You'll satisfy the teacher as often as possible and get good grades. I want to feel right as often as possible, which means I'll disrupt the class often and get called out during the parents-teachers meeting.
The question is poorly worded. It asks for words in the order they come in the alphabet. Words aren't in the alphabet. Letters are in the alphabet, so they reordered the letters.
It might not be autism, it might be just lacking context as to what they mean. The kid is likely very young so they might not know what alphabetical order means. It's a reasonable guess given the lack of explanation in the worksheet.
Honestly the question as asked is unambiguous: "write words in alphabetical order" cannot mean anything else than apple, fox, log, pond, pumpkin, river. If what was provided here were the expected answer, the wording should be "write each of the following words with its letters sorted by alphabetical order".
Could be understood as "take these words, and write them out in alphabetical order". It's not specifically stated whether letters inside those words should also be sorted or not.
We take it for granted that we have so much experience communicating, we can infer the meaning without full instruction, but children are still acquiring this knowledge and sometimes take things literally with hilarious results.
Of course, not blaming children for misunderstanding this; but if this were a software requirement, an adult software developer should be able to understand it correctly.
In case anyways else looked for the comments to try to figure out what was done wrong, the expected answer would be: apple, fox, log, pond, pumpkim, river.
I was sent to the principals office several times in elementary school because my teachers thought I was trying to be a smart ass. Because I would do what they literally, exactly asked me to do, and not what they apparently meant.
I was always very confused because I honestly believed I was doing my best to follow instructions.
It didn’t help that I grew up in the American southeast, a region where patterns of speech are very indirect and lean heavily on idioms and metaphors.
I was in middle school before I figured out what was happening and did not get into trouble in that way anymore. I’m in my 40s now but I’m still a literal-first thinker. And yeah, I’m a programmer.
As a child, I'd probably get from context what was actually wanted since it probably complemented in-class lessons. But in primary school, I also sometimes liked to push the limits of what was asked. So I might do this and also put what was intended to the side.
I couldn't figure out what the clue was that the kid would be a programmer. Surely any kid could have gotten this right? Then I read your comment and it all made sense. Thank you.
They did fail to demonstrate knowledge of lexicographical order, which this exercise seems to be aiming for with the inclusion of pond and pumpkin, so I think it's a bit cynical to consider failing the student on this a means of opression or subjugation.
Let me put it this way then. I wonder if they will give him credit for his knowledge because he proved he knows what "alphabetical order" is. Will he lose any credit because he didn't follow, or misunderstood, the question? Will he be marked on what he knows or how he understands the query?
This is a neurodivergent solution. You can know everything correctly but without a properly defined problem, you go with your best assumption. People that think differently, assume different things.
Write the following words in alphabetical order (the order that they appear in the alphabet).
This is not a neurodivergent solution, this is simply incorrect — the instructions are clear. You can try to rationalize why it somehow is correct, you are also wrong.
Words means individual words, you would need to say "list of words"
Entire groups of people go through school systems being wrong even though they are right, this is an actual problem. It destroys children's self esteem.
Correct, we have another word called 'letters'. As it pertains to this instance, when you take the letters of the word 'apple' and rearrange them alphabetically — they are no longer a word. Unless you would accept aelpp as a spelling of apple.
I sincerely doubt this is the first time this child has seen the term alphabetical order, I would be inclined to think the child is a clever smartass depending on the individual.
Either way, the situation is very simple to handle without breaking the childs self esteem.
'I totally understand why you came to the conclusion you did, and you did write the letters in alphabetical order! However, the instructions say to 'write the words in alphabetical order'. Try again, I bet you'll get 100%!'
The child is most likely just wrong. Teaching them to think critically about their failures is not a problem. Treating them as if failure is some pit they need to forever keep from falling into definitely is, and not helping the child learn to navigate failure is infinitely more detrimental.
Edit: Nothing is more aggravating than being challenged by bleeding hearts who don't have enough blood left for their brains. Especially when I take the time to break down why their misplaced empathy is wasted only to receive zero response. Cowardly behavior, truly — children will be left anxiety ridden and logically broken if exposed to your methods.
78 Comments
olenkoVD@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 143 pts · 203d
I like how fox stays the same.
TheMinions@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 60 pts · 203d
I like how pond is backwards.
degen@midwest.social · 16 pts · 203d
Eirrv is such a better word for river that I'm retconning the English language
TheMinions@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 10 pts · 203d
Feels like some new age Sindarin. I’m here for it tbh.
nialv7@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 203d
i wonder how many words are like that
bleistift2@sopuli.xyz · 9 pts · 203d
I wish there were a free database of words to answer that question. :(
nylo@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 203d
:(
psud@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 201d
https://www.english-corpora.org/
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 203d
If you're on this sub, this is a good programming exercise for you if you're interested. I'm sure there are plenty of large lists of words in English, that should provide all the data needed.
psud@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 201d
There are massive lists, the search is English words corpus
https://www.english-corpora.org/ is an excellent starting place
BillyClark@piefed.social · 126 pts · 203d
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org · 34 pts · 203d
FTFY:
5. the
6. the
The alphabet provided ends with X. However, you apparently remove duplicates so maybe just cross out the last row?
BillyClark@piefed.social · 18 pts · 203d
One important skill for school is to look at the entire question so that you can understand what the teacher is asking for, even if they don't format the question exactly right.
In this case, your answer would not fit into the 6 spaces provided for the answer.
So you have to ask yourself what they meant by "Write the following words". Since "the" is the same word repeated twice, once you've written "the" after 5, then I could argue that "the" has already been written.
Therefore, if there are only six blanks for the answer, looking at the entire question, I argue that the answer I provided is most likely correct.
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org · 3 pts · 203d
You'll satisfy the teacher as often as possible and get good grades. I want to feel right as often as possible, which means I'll disrupt the class often and get called out during the parents-teachers meeting.
conorab@lemmy.conorab.com · 16 pts · 203d
Still an error unfortunately. Should be:
ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one · 11 pts · 203d
We really should stick with the orginal German verision.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 203d
No one who alphabetizes in German could get a failing grade
First prize!
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org · 3 pts · 203d
Now, a Goldener Irrgärtner question: where does ẞ go in the alphabet?
cows_are_underrated@feddit.org · 2 pts · 203d
At the end after ä ö and ü
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org · 2 pts · 203d
So this is in alphabetical order?
Stopp
stottern
stoßen
Styl
ständig
stören
symbolisch
südlich
Sütterlinschrift
süß
Zyklus
Ärger
melfie@lemy.lol · 2 pts · 203d
wewbull@feddit.uk · 54 pts · 203d
The question is poorly worded. It asks for words in the order they come in the alphabet. Words aren't in the alphabet. Letters are in the alphabet, so they reordered the letters.
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 203d
That's not being pedantic, it's just wrong. Do you not call the order of words in a dictionary "alphabetical order"?
wewbull@feddit.uk · 9 pts · 203d
Of course, but this is a 6? year old. Read the question as a child would.
All fine, but if they don't know the word "alphabetical" the clarification is...
Confusing. "They" refers to the words and alphabet contains letters. If it had been "dictionary" and not "alphabet" then that would be clear.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 203d
No I call them witchcraft
user224@lemmy.sdf.org · 1 pts · 203d
Is that what was wrong here?
floofloof@lemmy.ca · 54 pts · 203d
I like this kid.
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@sh.itjust.works · 49 pts · 203d
Or autistic. Most definitely autistic.
excel@lemming.megumin.org · 65 pts · 203d
OP already said programmer
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca · 11 pts · 203d
Some become engineers.
communism@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 203d
It might not be autism, it might be just lacking context as to what they mean. The kid is likely very young so they might not know what alphabetical order means. It's a reasonable guess given the lack of explanation in the worksheet.
aaaaaaaaargh@feddit.org · 34 pts · 203d
With more than three repetitions of the same algorithm the kid should've been automating the process.
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 203d
It makes sense if not taught the conventions of alphabetizing first. Kids don't know what they don't know.
Mr. Rogers understood this on a deep level.
5715@feddit.org · 30 pts · 203d
maliciousnaive complianceaev_software@programming.dev · 24 pts · 203d
A clear indication of bad requirements.
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de · -3 pts · 203d
Honestly the question as asked is unambiguous: "write words in alphabetical order" cannot mean anything else than apple, fox, log, pond, pumpkin, river. If what was provided here were the expected answer, the wording should be "write each of the following words with its letters sorted by alphabetical order".
Michal@programming.dev · 14 pts · 203d
Could be understood as "take these words, and write them out in alphabetical order". It's not specifically stated whether letters inside those words should also be sorted or not.
We take it for granted that we have so much experience communicating, we can infer the meaning without full instruction, but children are still acquiring this knowledge and sometimes take things literally with hilarious results.
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de · -1 pts · 203d
Of course, not blaming children for misunderstanding this; but if this were a software requirement, an adult software developer should be able to understand it correctly.
CidVicious@piefed.zip · 20 pts · 202d
Completely misunderstanding the requirements? Yeah that's a dev alright.
WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com · 18 pts · 203d
In case anyways else looked for the comments to try to figure out what was done wrong, the expected answer would be: apple, fox, log, pond, pumpkim, river.
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 203d
Seriously?
WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com · 11 pts · 203d
Are you asking if I was confused how they did something wrong? Yes.
Are you asking if "apple, fox, log, pond, pumpkim, river" was the intended answer? Also probably yes (but I didn't make it, so I can't be sure).
marlowe221@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 203d
I was sent to the principals office several times in elementary school because my teachers thought I was trying to be a smart ass. Because I would do what they literally, exactly asked me to do, and not what they apparently meant.
I was always very confused because I honestly believed I was doing my best to follow instructions.
It didn’t help that I grew up in the American southeast, a region where patterns of speech are very indirect and lean heavily on idioms and metaphors.
I was in middle school before I figured out what was happening and did not get into trouble in that way anymore. I’m in my 40s now but I’m still a literal-first thinker. And yeah, I’m a programmer.
tja@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 203d
So you would have done the same as the kid?
fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 203d
I would have done the same right now as an adult.
WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com · 4 pts · 203d
As a child, I'd probably get from context what was actually wanted since it probably complemented in-class lessons. But in primary school, I also sometimes liked to push the limits of what was asked. So I might do this and also put what was intended to the side.
davidagain@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 203d
I couldn't figure out what the clue was that the kid would be a programmer. Surely any kid could have gotten this right? Then I read your comment and it all made sense. Thank you.
And yes, yes I am a programmer.
RedStrider@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 203d
woah man, posting answers to tests online is cheating and can get you expelled!
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 203d
No, the answer isn't "pumpkim". :D
psud@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 201d
Are you sure? Apple is crossed out (presumably as a hint to cross them out as you add them to the list)
killabeezio@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 203d
Forty is the only number when spelled out that is in alphabetical order
CXORA@aussie.zone · 10 pts · 203d
British spelling fixes this bug!
FiskFisk33@startrek.website · 2 pts · 203d
it's spelled 'forty' in british english too
CXORA@aussie.zone · 4 pts · 203d
Its spelt however you can convince people to read it tbh.
FiskFisk33@startrek.website · 1 pts · 199d
you can but then it's not "British spelling"
rmuk@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 202d
Fhourthi innit?
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 203d
Oh yeah? Well what about i
rmuk@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 202d
What about you?
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 202d
No what about μ
OpenPassageways@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 202d
QA prodigy
palmtrees2309@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 202d
Baby steps in functional programmings
AeonFelis@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 203d
Programmer? IDK. Looks kind of antigrammar to me.
Sculptor9157@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 202d
An amateurgrammar, if you will.
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 203d
I like it. He didn't meet the assignment but he proved his knowledge. Now to see if they mark on knowledge learnt or subjugation.
wpb@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 203d
They did fail to demonstrate knowledge of lexicographical order, which this exercise seems to be aiming for with the inclusion of pond and pumpkin, so I think it's a bit cynical to consider failing the student on this a means of opression or subjugation.
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · -2 pts · 203d
Let me put it this way then. I wonder if they will give him credit for his knowledge because he proved he knows what "alphabetical order" is. Will he lose any credit because he didn't follow, or misunderstood, the question? Will he be marked on what he knows or how he understands the query?
Bazoogle@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 203d
It's elementary school. They'd probably just explain it and have them try again.
Jax@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 203d
The child did not prove that they know what alphabetical order is, they proved that they know the alphabet.
This does not showcase intellect, it showcases a lack of critical thinking.
SleeplessCityLights@programming.dev · 2 pts · 202d
This is a neurodivergent solution. You can know everything correctly but without a properly defined problem, you go with your best assumption. People that think differently, assume different things.
Jax@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 202d
This is not a neurodivergent solution, this is simply incorrect — the instructions are clear. You can try to rationalize why it somehow is correct, you are also wrong.
SleeplessCityLights@programming.dev · 0 pts · 201d
You actually highlighted the problem.
Words means individual words, you would need to say "list of words"
Entire groups of people go through school systems being wrong even though they are right, this is an actual problem. It destroys children's self esteem.
Jax@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 201d
A few things:
Correct, we have another word called 'letters'. As it pertains to this instance, when you take the letters of the word 'apple' and rearrange them alphabetically — they are no longer a word. Unless you would accept aelpp as a spelling of apple.
I sincerely doubt this is the first time this child has seen the term alphabetical order, I would be inclined to think the child is a clever smartass depending on the individual.
Either way, the situation is very simple to handle without breaking the childs self esteem.
'I totally understand why you came to the conclusion you did, and you did write the letters in alphabetical order! However, the instructions say to 'write the words in alphabetical order'. Try again, I bet you'll get 100%!'
The child is most likely just wrong. Teaching them to think critically about their failures is not a problem. Treating them as if failure is some pit they need to forever keep from falling into definitely is, and not helping the child learn to navigate failure is infinitely more detrimental.
Edit: Nothing is more aggravating than being challenged by bleeding hearts who don't have enough blood left for their brains. Especially when I take the time to break down why their misplaced empathy is wasted only to receive zero response. Cowardly behavior, truly — children will be left anxiety ridden and logically broken if exposed to your methods.
fell@discuss.tchncs.de · 5 pts · 203d
fox
rustbuckett@lemmings.world · 4 pts · 203d
Well, he/she is not wrong.
doomsdayrs@lemmy.ml · 23 pts · 203d
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/they
"3B: used with a singular antecedent to refer to an unknown or unspecified person"
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 203d
I used to like s/he until I realized I could type they and save zero characters and am not texting a pager
webpack@ani.social · 3 pts · 203d
list.toSorted()vslist.map(word => word.toSorted())(note that you can't actually do string.toSorted() in js you have to convert into a list and back)
Haaveilija@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 203d
.._.._.._.._.._.._.._.._.._.._.._.._.._.._.._.._.._.._._Secret morse code?