About fucking time... But knowing our corrupt overlord fucks, they will just use matrix.org free service and conclude "it's not responsive enough, whelp, we tried..."
It's the EC doing software. They will somehow find a way to pay at least double and it'll be declared a success if someone manages to install it on a reviewer's laptop.
I do think the EU should start with a more basic app like FluffyChat in testing but rebranded, then try to make their own app over the Matrix protocol that fits their specific communications needs and share that development publicly with open source.
The biggest problem with XMPP is what various servers and clients implement is kind of all over the place. For instance, most clients support an older version of OMEMO, but some clients support newer versions, and the different versions are incompatible.
The other issue is some platforms (iOS in particular) have pretty shitty XMPP apps filled with bugs.
I still generally like XMPP more than Matrix since ATM Matrix clients are also filled with bugs/laggy, Synapse (the main server implementation) is very resource heavy, and message syncing is kind of shit if the client doesn't implement sliding sync (like FluffyChat). I personally think the UI for both XMPP and Matrix clients generally kind of suck, which isn't great for convincing non-techy people to use them.
I mean, matrix is similar. So many official features aren't supported by various clients, and then there are non official features that the clients do support, that aren't supported by the official clients.
But matrix or XMPP, that problem is easily enough avoided at the "government rollout" level by standardising on a particular client and server combination
Matrix is fragmented too, but it's generally less fragmented in my experience (if you use a relatively well developed client). Part of this is because most people just use Synapse for their server. With XMPP, server implementations support random combinations of XEPs, and specific servers often are missing random XEPs because they're not enabled by default and so on (thinking about ejabberd for instance here, the default config probably isn't what most people want). I also routinely have random compatibility problems between clients pop up with XMPP. As a basic example, retracting messages is very haphazard.
Anyway, yeah, if they standardize on server and client setup for all govt instances, it'd be fine either way probably. The clients may be somewhat janky, but they can probably fix those issues more easily when they're only focused on one client (although unless it's like FluffyChat and cross-platform, they may need to standardize multiple clients) and server.
It's good to have an easy model for communication between members of different trusted organizations without requiring everyone to create a new account on a different server.
I've heard element, the common server software and even the protocol itself are also simply meh as well ... That's not a great start... And the name alone is a huge problem for adoption
I tried installing matrix once on a VM at work. A lot of work to get it running and it refused to work for some reason. I guess there are better alternatives, something made with xmpp or even rocketchat
44 Comments
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 86 pts · 198d
Good luck
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world · 66 pts · 198d
About fucking time... But knowing our corrupt overlord fucks, they will just use matrix.org free service and conclude "it's not responsive enough, whelp, we tried..."
TheBlackLounge@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 198d
It's the EC doing software. They will somehow find a way to pay at least double and it'll be declared a success if someone manages to install it on a reviewer's laptop.
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 198d
:/
Fmstrat@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 197d
Title is inaccurate. @Beep@lemmus.org please use the actual title. They are not replacing Teams.
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 197d
you responded to a comment, not to OP :)
Fmstrat@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 197d
Yea that was on purpose 😀 At this point I can't remember why, though, only that I tagged OP.
KiwiTB@lemmy.world · 34 pts · 198d
I've always heard matrix was so so at best. So this seems unwise.
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 57 pts · 198d
Matrix is good. Element is not. It is a terrible application filled with bugs that ends up limiting the quality of other client applications.
Rentlar@lemmy.ca · 28 pts · 198d
I do think the EU should start with a more basic app like FluffyChat in testing but rebranded, then try to make their own app over the Matrix protocol that fits their specific communications needs and share that development publicly with open source.
Samsy@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 198d
German military uses matrix with their own messenger.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.bwi.bwmessenger
Rentlar@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 197d
Oh perfect. That would be a good upstream base for other European govt projects.
KiwiTB@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 198d
Didn't XMPP already solve these issues a long time ago?
arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone · 12 pts · 198d
The biggest problem with XMPP is what various servers and clients implement is kind of all over the place. For instance, most clients support an older version of OMEMO, but some clients support newer versions, and the different versions are incompatible.
The other issue is some platforms (iOS in particular) have pretty shitty XMPP apps filled with bugs.
I still generally like XMPP more than Matrix since ATM Matrix clients are also filled with bugs/laggy, Synapse (the main server implementation) is very resource heavy, and message syncing is kind of shit if the client doesn't implement sliding sync (like FluffyChat). I personally think the UI for both XMPP and Matrix clients generally kind of suck, which isn't great for convincing non-techy people to use them.
apftwb@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 198d
Ding ding ding. Make a Discord/Slack clone that does screensharing and drag/drop file sharing and I won't care if it uses XMPP or Matrix
neblem@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 198d
So Rocket.Chat (which TIL can federate to Matrix)?
apftwb@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 198d
Did they just add that? Last I heard it was on the roadmap
arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 198d
I think there have been some attempts to do so, but they're just not good enough (and/or end up dead after a while).
timbuck2themoon@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 197d
People say discord and my God, to be that is one ugly ass program.
ada@piefed.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 198d
I mean, matrix is similar. So many official features aren't supported by various clients, and then there are non official features that the clients do support, that aren't supported by the official clients.
But matrix or XMPP, that problem is easily enough avoided at the "government rollout" level by standardising on a particular client and server combination
arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 198d
Matrix is fragmented too, but it's generally less fragmented in my experience (if you use a relatively well developed client). Part of this is because most people just use Synapse for their server. With XMPP, server implementations support random combinations of XEPs, and specific servers often are missing random XEPs because they're not enabled by default and so on (thinking about ejabberd for instance here, the default config probably isn't what most people want). I also routinely have random compatibility problems between clients pop up with XMPP. As a basic example, retracting messages is very haphazard.
Anyway, yeah, if they standardize on server and client setup for all govt instances, it'd be fine either way probably. The clients may be somewhat janky, but they can probably fix those issues more easily when they're only focused on one client (although unless it's like FluffyChat and cross-platform, they may need to standardize multiple clients) and server.
ohnomorelemmy@piefed.social · 9 pts · 198d
This is a case where federation is nice.Â
It's good to have an easy model for communication between members of different trusted organizations without requiring everyone to create a new account on a different server.
Ulrich@feddit.org · 8 pts · 198d
XMPP is federated
JonnyRobbie@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 198d
Any matrix client available for both android and ios with video conference capabilities?
....
that might have sounded a bit too aggressive. My question is genuine. Family members needs.
nao@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 197d
Have not tried it, but supposedly Element X does support that
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 198d
Yeah. Compared to Teams, Matrix is fine. It's just far from a powerful tool built by people who actually give a shit.
bridgeburner@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 197d
Interesting. My company uses Matrix Element as well and it works great.
Hudell@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 198d
Rocket.Chat seems to be doing well in Europe as well; they recently released their own native matrix implementation.
KiwiTB@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 198d
I've heard element, the common server software and even the protocol itself are also simply meh as well ... That's not a great start... And the name alone is a huge problem for adoption
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 198d
Element the server suite is fine - it's just a version of Synapse with rust and Python bindings.
melfie@lemy.lol · 3 pts · 197d
BC_viper@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 198d
I dont know how they are going to get people in the goo pods but I wish them luck.
rmuk@feddit.uk · 6 pts · 198d
Hey, man. Free goo.
rumba@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 198d
When do i get the jack in the back of my head, I want to get inserted like now.....
ohh not The Matrix.... damn
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 5 pts · 198d
pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 198d
hope estonia does get to matrix after Skype was killed.
2pNza@piefed.social · 6 pts · 198d
they should try use Nextcloud Talk
wioum@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 198d
Cool
Melusine@tarte.nuage-libre.fr · 3 pts · 198d
Why not xmpp with ejabberd or prosody and only one client for the workers ?
fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 197d
Sweet! Element already has some work put into for secure gov use, plus federation is the reality at scale.
rmuk@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 198d
They should just use WhatsApp.
/s obvs
super_user_do@feddit.it · 1 pts · 197d
Matrix Is NOT ready for this bro
ICastFist@programming.dev · 0 pts · 197d
I tried installing matrix once on a VM at work. A lot of work to get it running and it refused to work for some reason. I guess there are better alternatives, something made with xmpp or even rocketchat
enterpries@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 198d
Wow, they must have some really smart people making these suggestions.