Hey Mr President! I represent evangelicals, televangelists and scientology like Kenneth Copeland, Joel Osteen, David Miscavige, etc.
We collectively call you out as a raping pedophile piece of shit living specimen who wouldn't dare come after our tax-free status. FUCK YOU!
94 Comments
Zier@fedia.io · 143 pts · 214d
All religions need to be taxed like the businesses they are.
fizzle@quokk.au · 12 pts · 214d
The problem with this is that there's no profit to tax.
I hate religion as much as the next guy but taxing a non-profit charity is nonsensical.
What you actually want is:
Zier@fedia.io · 40 pts · 214d
Mega-churches make massive profits.
fizzle@quokk.au · 9 pts · 214d
You mean massive cash surpluses.
All that cash is legally required to be spent in the course of the churches objectives, which in almost all cases will be the furtherance of religion.
That means, the minister is restricted from using that money for personal things like holidays or boats or whatever.
Yes, mega churches provide celebrity ministers a lot of perks. Thats why I said this area needs stronger restrictions.
limelight79@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 213d
I assume the church can pay the minister a salary...are there restrictions on that salary?
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 213d
Preachers and all other church staff members have to pay income taxes.
There is an interest-free housing stipend for preachers that works similar to an FSA (use it or lose it annually). Some military service members get a similar stipend if they live off-base for the same reason. Many preachers and service members are itenerant and may be reassigned to a different area at any time. Purchsing a house isn'trealistic if you don'tknownwhere you'll live in 6 months, so they can't take advantage of tax breaks like the home interest mortgage deduction. Preachers who are provided free housing (parsonage) can't take advantage of the tax-free stipend because they don't pay for housing.
My thought on that particular tax break isn't to close it but to expand it to everyone who rents.
FrChazzz@lemmus.org · 2 pts · 213d
Someone knows their clergy tax code! I agree with your idea of expansion. That's something I'd not considered and think it makes a lot of sense.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 213d
I used to be clergy. Now I work in government.
So I feel like I'm a decent authority on how the separation of church and state makes both institutions better.
fizzle@quokk.au · 2 pts · 213d
Depends on jurisdiction.
It can be taxed like any other salary. Sometimes they enjoy some tax concessions.
limelight79@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 213d
The point I was trying to make is that those churches that are bringing in big money may have a way to funnel that money to the minister - just make it his or her salary. Add bonuses. Sure the minister probably has to pay taxes on the income, but so what, they're still making a lot more than most people (including members of their own church).
fizzle@quokk.au · 0 pts · 213d
My comment is about taxing churches.
cattywampas@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 213d
And unfortunately those would not be the ones targeted.
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 214d
This is categorically untrue. Hiding profits doesn't mean they don't have them. That's just fraud. The mormon church, for example, has trillions invested.
Zier@fedia.io · 6 pts · 214d
Same for Scientology.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 213d
Literally created as a tax dodge for L. Ron Hubbard.
altphoto@lemmy.today · 0 pts · 214d
This is demonstrably untrue. Swimming in literal profit pools like Scrudge McDuck is life.
Mongostein@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 214d
No profit? They literally tell their congregation to give them 10-20% of their earnings.
fizzle@quokk.au · 4 pts · 214d
Thats income, not profit.
By definition, its all spent in the furtherance of the club / churches objectives.
If you and I form a dinner club and every week we chip in $50 and go out for dinner, the club has no "profit" we're just sharing the cost of our hobby.
Mongostein@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 214d
Sure, but our dinner club isn’t selling anything, while a church is.
fizzle@quokk.au · 1 pts · 213d
Sure it is, our dinner club is selling great vibes.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 214d
That's pretty similar to how it is.
I used to be a preacher. I paid taxes. Any facility space or property we rented to commercial companies (we had a psychologist who used a portion of our space during the week) was taxed.
The only real break we got versus other charities was that clergy can get a tax-freee home/apartment rental stipend if they aren't provided a personage. The idea there was that, for itenerant clergy, purchasing a home isn't realistic because they don't know where they'll live in a year. They can't take advantage of things like a mortgage interest deduction.
But my solution there is to open up tax exemption for all rent payers and to tax the living shit out of landlords to make them sell and open up housing inventory.
fizzle@quokk.au · 1 pts · 213d
I said this type of thing should be curtailed. Thats not the same as teaching churches because theyre like a business.
Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone · 60 pts · 214d
Trump is evil, but this man remains the only person I’ve seen I’m convinced is an actual demon. Video of him sets off my fight or flight response so hard.
unnamed1@feddit.org · 19 pts · 214d
True. He does make people believe in spiritual things. Haunting, evil, possessed things.
CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world · 51 pts · 213d
Honestly, churches should have always stayed the fuck out of politics or lose their tax exempt status. Of course, that rule does not apply to the weepy Republicans, because the rules never do. They cry about "religious freedom", but want their cake and eat it, too, of course: the most radically right wing churches can say whatever the hell they want regarding telling their people how to vote and we all get to fund it, effectively.
Having the cake and eating it too is not an option for liberal churches, though.
HermitBee@feddit.uk · 37 pts · 213d
Churches should never have had tax exempt status.
HubertManne@piefed.social · 11 pts · 213d
honestly im not sure anything should have. You can deduct expenses so theoretically non for profits should not pay much anyway.
pupbiru@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 212d
they’d still have to pay various payroll taxes and things, and they still buy things: tax exemption in australia for example means you neither have to charge GST (our version of VAT) to customers, and you get to claim it back from any purchases you make
HubertManne@piefed.social · 1 pts · 212d
yeah but im not sure that is a bad thing. They would also pay property tax. In the us sales and property tax mostly pay for real world community things that need to be done and are shared resources. Infrastructure and services basically. I don't see why a non for profit should not pay into that the same as for profits. I don't think charities will disapear if they have to deal with the same rules every individual has to and if they do they likely were scams or something.
pupbiru@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 212d
i’m not a member of a church, i’m very atheist, but also i kinda put churches around the same place as sports clubs… they’re largely non-profit entities that exist for the benefit of members… kinda like a co-op too
i think given that - ie their mission isn’t based around making money, but providing free services - it’s fair to put them on the same level as other membership-based orgs
all of these orgs have a “not for me” crowd, but just because it’s not for you doesn’t mean that they don’t provide services to their members in the same way that sports clubs, maker spaces, car clubs, youth clubs, etc all provide things and shouldn’t be taxed in addition to the income tax that their members already pay
HubertManne@piefed.social · 1 pts · 212d
I might be missing your your point buy yeah as I said all not for profits so I indeed would like them all treated the same. regardless of church or club. I don't see why a club shouldn't pay taxes in addition to the tax their members pay when I pay tax in addition to my income tax for all the goods and services I use myself. I mean why can't I be a club of one and get the benefits. Its all not for profit in the same way to me.
Doomsider@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 213d
Unless they can show they are providing beneficial services to the entire community they should not get it. So a church that only serves their parishioners would be a no, but one that runs a food bank open to the community would be able to get it.
Any political advocacy along the lines of telling people who they should vote for should be a permanent revocation of nonprofit status.
Tower@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 213d
Agreed. It's not so much a matter of changing church tax code, but changing 501c3 tax codes in general and having enough IRS agents to properly keep up.
pupbiru@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 212d
yall already have 501c7 which is membership organisations like sports clubs
HermitBee@feddit.uk · 3 pts · 213d
I'm not opposed to that, but I don't see any reason to bring the word "church" into it. I think they should be treated like any other club of people, and that may well include tax exemptions for community work.
pupbiru@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 212d
well, it’s probably a similar thing to a 501c7: membership organisations like sports clubs
Arghblarg@lemmy.ca · 36 pts · 214d
Might be a good post for /c/LeopardsAteMyFace
How did religious people ever think he wasn't just wrapping himself in the garb of piety to get elected? He was on tape talking about grabbing women by the pussy because 'when you are famous they just let you do it'! Before the LAST time he was elected. Sheesh.
And... Scientology, on the issue of tax exempt status, really? Wow. Criminals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White
MuskyMelon@lemmy.world · 27 pts · 214d
The most religious of people seem to defer critical thinking to their leaders because it makes their brain too hurt to do so. They just want to be told what to do and what to think.
itistime@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 212d
There are at least a couple groups:
itistime@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 212d
24_at_the_withers@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 213d
American Evangelicism is just fascism with wrapping paper and a bow. Their beliefs stand in stark constant to what Jesus actually taught, and they pick, choose, and misinterpret the Bible to support their pre-existing beliefs while discarding the rest. They lie to themselves and each other and speak in coded language. Since their outward appearance is simply a veneer covering their true beliefs, when Trump came along and started saying everything they felt, and doing the hideous actions they all want to do, it didn't matter that he doesn't hide behind a veneer or speak in coded language. He is a perfect reflection of who they truly are, and as a result they see him as a prophet or even Messiah.
It's because the American Evangelicals are not, and have never been, who they claim to be. They're hideous, hateful, selfish people that somewhere deep down knew they needed a cover for their horrendous nature.
Billy_fuccboi@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 214d
Social media is a powerful tool in the post-truth world
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 214d
Religious people (at least of the US-Christian variety) are conditioned from birth to believe what an authority figure tells them, despite what night contradict them.
itistime@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 212d
Everywhere.
whitecollarcry@lemmy.world · 34 pts · 213d
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 213d
The fundies would be perfectly happy to see other Christian denominations persecuted. It won't sow any division at all.
Schmoo@slrpnk.net · 27 pts · 214d
The churches that would call him out are likely the same few that actually do something to deserve their tax exempt status, like feeding the homeless.
fishy@lemmy.today · 12 pts · 213d
No churches deserve tax exempt status. Why the hell should we rely on their kindness to feed the homeless when we can tax them and ensure the poor are fed?
Schmoo@slrpnk.net · 7 pts · 213d
By that logic, charities should not be tax exempt either. I agree that charity isn't the ideal solution to poverty, hunger, homelessness, etc. and we should be funding social welfare to solve those problems, but in the meantime people who are working to alleviate these issues should not be tax burdened. I don't like the religious exemption, but the 501(c)(3) exemption as a whole is a good thing.
btsax@reddthat.com · 10 pts · 213d
There's an argument to be made that charities and other 501c3 organizations both entrench capitalism and normalize its failures to care for marginalized people, and/or that they also mostly exist to provide the wealthy with tax breaks through which they can fund pet projects, bypassing any democratic processes and ignoring what society actually needs.
Schmoo@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 213d
I agree, but I still think that as long as charities exist they should be tax exempt. I look at it similarly to USAID, which was a way for the US empire to project soft power, but also saved and improved lives. Ending 501c3 tax exempt status would be a disaster in the same way that the current administration ending USAID was. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
fishy@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 213d
Ending it suddenly without a replacement would be a catastrophe, no doubt about it. That doesn't mean they deserve tax exempt status. The majority of charities are pretty decent and get a good portion of their donations to people in need but there are also charities that are basically a way for the wealthy to avoid taxes. I think the government will better represent the will of the people (in normal times), have lower overhead, work faster, and close the loopholes. I'd also be satisfied with closing the loopholes that allow people to take advantage and avoid paying taxes. Donating a few million to the charity you own to get a tax break, while your nephew runs the charity taking a fat check, and makes the area you live nicer; improving your real estate values should not be a thing.
FrChazzz@lemmus.org · 5 pts · 213d
I always love the assumption that the money taxed on churches will go and do the work that churches would do and not build bombs. My parishioners are already taxed to help kill people, I really don't need their faithful contributions to be taxed again so that the US can kill more people. Maybe fix the way taxes are spent and I'll support taxing my church. But for now, I really don't want to see the money people give out of their sense of faithfulness to be used to pay for an extra bullet that's going to kill someone standing in ICE's way.
My congregation is pretty small. I know the assumption is huge megachurches and all that (and yeah, maybe those folks should be taxed because they use the religious exemptions as a loophole for some really unsavory stuff). But the 40-ish people that give what they do do so to help in what little ways they can.
fishy@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 213d
pupbiru@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 212d
not the way taxes work mate
why does faith give them an exemption from participation in civilised society?
i’d love for tickets to various pride events not to be taxed, but they are… so why do i pay tax for participating in my culture and “faith” is exempt?
taxes largely only apply to profits, so if you’re being an actual charitable organisation, you won’t have too many profits and thus not a large tax burden… right?
ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 213d
You say this but in many communities churches are the only option or the primary option because government has failed its populace.
When I worked with the homeless shelters would fill immediately, like within an hour of opening doors, and they would kick you out at 7am so you’d have to come back that evening and hope you make it. Closed during the day because of no funding for staffing. but churches would have much more space, would be open during the day, would have hot food, etc.
The funding for the homeless is nothing and gets cut year after year. In my state it’s somewhat decent too, in the more conservative states my understanding is that it can be more dire.
My conspiracy theory is that this is intentional: homeless services, rehab services, etc get minimal funding that is consistently slashed to funnel people into churches when they’re most vulnerable which allows them to be indoctrinated more easily. I worked with many people who either became very religious or if they were already religious became far more conservative and evangelical. Guess who also tended to vote against their own interests based on wedge issues like abortion and lgbt rights once they got back on their feet?
At the same time liberals don’t actually want to fund mental health services. They are viciously anti taxes and viciously anti homeless. Look at California: when programs start that are positive to improve the lives of homeless and start to break the cycle the NIMBYs come out in full force
FrChazzz@lemmus.org · 25 pts · 213d
As we predicted! I'm a priest in the Episcopal Church and at our recent clergy conference we were made aware of a letter being issued by a large number of our bishops, to be published in one of the big papers, denouncing ICE (it was distributed to us this past Saturday, but I have no idea if it's shown up in one of the papers or not). We discussed the possibility of Trump getting mad and revoking our tax exempt status because of it. Dude is quite predictable lol.
PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 213d
I hope you all spite this evil bastard and not give in
itistime@infosec.pub · 1 pts · 213d
Time to see how hypocritical these churches are.
Their love of money will endure…
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 213d
Hmm, well seems it's time to find out if prayer works, eh? Ask your sky goblin nicely!
58008@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 214d
Is there some way we can make this more likely to occur? Maybe some AI videos of clergy calling him a shitty-pantsed child molester with small hands and short skyscrapers?
Seriously. Look, the piece of shit is in the oval office already, that ship has sailed. But we might actually have a good use for the cunt in this case. Let's make the most of it!
orclev@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 214d
Oh please let him actually do it. It would be one of the only positive things to come out of this toxic festering dung heap of an administration.
Xaphanos@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 214d
Unfortunately, it will only be the helpful and tolerant ones. TST, UU, Episcopal, etc. The worst will be supported and amplified.
itistime@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 212d
It would not surprise me if he started appropriating our taxpayer dollars towards them.
orclev@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 213d
I don't think he'd have the ability to target specific churches like that, he'd have to remove the blanket religious tax exemption so it would apply to all of them. I think the only way he could target specific churches is if he somehow got them reclassified as not religious institutions and I'm not sure how he would manage that. Doing that to something like the church of scientology is one thing, it's already on shaky ground, but trying the same thing on something like the Episcopal church is something else entirely. Unfortunately I could see him maybe succeeding at getting TST reclassified.
FrChazzz@lemmus.org · 2 pts · 213d
There was an attempt, way back when, to revoke the tax exempt status of All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena, CA because the priest there was openly critical of the Bush administration. The argument was that, by criticizing Bush he was endorsing a Democratic candidate and churches at the time were not allowed to endorse political candidates. Of course, Trump changed that (and, possibly, his only legal leg to stand on in regards to this threat). Unless there's an amendment that makes space for "not hurting Twumpy's widdle feewings" then, yeah, I don't think there's much he can do to pick on particular denominations, etc. But with Trump, nothing is assured.
EDIT: I see on the original post that Trump's statement that he removed the clause forbidding churches from endorsing candidates is actually false. Welp.
itistime@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 212d
What about orgs that are directly, or indirectly, aiding domestic terrorists?
Xaphanos@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 212d
Especially when "domestic terrorist" = "whoever I don't like".
Xaphanos@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 213d
I am not certain that a trivial issue like "that's unconstitutional" is going to present any kind of impediment to him.
Xaphanos@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 211d
And there we are...
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-trump-says-he-will-revoke-church-tax-exempt-status-if-leaders-say-something-bad-about-him
Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 20 pts · 214d
Do it, coward
SabinStargem@lemmy.today · 20 pts · 213d
He is correct that churches shouldn't be exempt from taxes, just not for his reasons. They are tax shelters for political tools, and should be made into taxed businesses if they insist on being money making machines.
TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 18 pts · 213d
I'm all for ending the tax exemption for cults but using it as leverage not to have people speak out against you? Such a DICKtator move.
GreenBeanMachine@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 214d
atomicorange@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 214d
Had me in the first half
itistime@infosec.pub · 15 pts · 213d
He will only attack orgs that are against him. This will lead to the loss of many different kinds of 501(c)(3) organizations with good missions and actions. This is a continuation of dismantling current institutions, and silencing dissent.
WanderWisley@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 214d
All churches in America need to start praying for Donny’s demise, show us what your god can do…
ironhydroxide@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 213d
Hey Mormons!!!!! What do you think of Trump?
within_epsilon@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 213d
During the last Presidential election, Utah's numbers did not shift right. Historically Mormon's vote as a block.
Emigration from other states is changing voting behavior in Utah with only 50% of the current population being LDS. Emigration might even be moving the state rightward since right radicals leave states like California for Republican states like Utah or Idaho.
A problem Mormon's fail to understand is that they are not seen as Christian by Evangelicals. Thereby when religious purges come, Mormon's are on the menu.
ohulancutash@feddit.uk · 11 pts · 213d
I share Thomas Cromwell’s views on churches so please make this happen.
phutatorius@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 213d
I share Thomas Paine's views. They're a business that should be taxed like any other.
sturmblast@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 214d
He only has one trick, bully.
AcidiclyBasicGlitch@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 213d
Seriously...
Wow 😮 Really coming full circle fucking around threatening a church's tax exemption status because you don't like free speech. If he wasn't just a fucking dumbass narcissist, I would almost think he's being clever, but there is no way.
The religious right movement was born when the federal government took away the tax exemption status of Bob Jones University for refusing to desegregate. This would become the first (but certainly not the last) major case argued in court by the new right against the federal government on the grounds of religious freedom.
I really have to wonder if sometimes his sycophants give him really bad advice on purpose because they think it's funny that he's always too dumb to get the joke until it's too late to take it back.
Or maybe not and the fabric of reality has just torn. Heritage Foundation. The moral majority. Ronald Reagan. Donald Trump. Project 2025. This is literally where it all started:
The real origins of the religious right
CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 213d
Thank you. I don't think xtian segregation academies are discussed nearly enough in the typical discourse.
AcidiclyBasicGlitch@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 213d
Omg to this day, school voucher programs are still linked up to heritage foundation spin offs and are such a fucking racket for this fucking cult.
https://www.nola.com/news/education/louisiana-la-gator-voucher-tv-ad-landry/article_f9af00c0-d067-44c2-9828-f48a58fd99af.html
To be clear, by cult I mean the "religious" right movement, not Christianity. There is nothing Christian about any of this. From the very beginning it has always just been a pyramid scheme to allow people to gain power and profit from the most despicable shit while claiming they do it all in the name of Jesus.
This is the shit that Jesus warned about; Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble. Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come.
In other words, everyone stumbles and messes up from time to time. It's an inevitable fact of life. But that is very different than being the vehicle that brings stumbling blocks to other people. The religious right movement and everybody that has ever profited or continues to profit from it, acts as the vehicle that helps intentionally spread this propaganda and misinformation to other people.
DevilsJaundice@europe.pub · 7 pts · 213d
Land of the free, home of the brave etc.
eve@evecodes.com · 7 pts · 213d
He did similar to universities, so why not?
Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 214d
Review ALL of them. Make them prove their nonpolitical and nonprofit like every other charity.
Asmodeus_Krang@infosec.pub · 5 pts · 214d
SnarkoPolo@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 213d
This is a fascist country. That's fascist behavior. Welcome to the New Normal.
Doomsider@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 213d
Always was even from the start. Rotten to the core with a thin veneer of liberalism for looks only.
TemplaerDude@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 213d
Fascist behaviour
Smoogs@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 213d
Haha Mike Johnson finally gets the inevitable slap in his face by this two faced troll.
foggy@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 214d
Father Shanley would like a word.
Oh wait he got murdered in jail for being a raping pedophile piece of shit specimen.
Fuck their tax exempt status. A broken clock is right twice a day.
Wispy2891@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 214d
I hope it's a different father shanley
LemmyShemmy@aussie.zone · 2 pts · 214d
Baphomet_The_Blasphemer@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 213d
What a whiny little bitch.
MehBlah@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 214d
Look evil can do the right and just thing if they think its punishment.
slothropmainaccount@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 214d
Tetragrade@leminal.space · 1 pts · 212d
Muh freeze peach
EvilBit@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 213d
Fuck it, just deepfake all the pastors saying Trump is a pedophile. Get it going online and see if he melts down.
ameancow@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 213d