I genuinely think this is one of my favorite memes I've posted
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post on r/JapaneseLanguage
Title: Is he Onii-chan in Japanese version?
[picture of "big brother" from the movie 1984]
Text: In 1984, there is a character called "Big Brother". Did they translate it as "Onii-chan" or is there any other way of saying big brother?
23 upvotes 5 comments
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27 Comments
zikzak025@lemmy.world · 85 pts · 222d
Actually had me curious so I looked it up. The Japanese version of the Wikipedia page is titled ビッグ・ブラザー so it looks like they just transliterated the English term instead of translating it into Japanese.
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz · 64 pts · 222d
Beegoo boo ra zaa
FinjaminPoach@lemmy.world · 41 pts · 222d
biggo bra-za.
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Old_Jimmy_Twodicks@sh.itjust.works · 48 pts · 222d
python@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 222d
Don't give Araki any ideas
Triumph@fedia.io · 4 pts · 222d
Close enough.
Rubanski@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 pts · 222d
ZA WARUDO
raman_klogius@ani.social · 17 pts · 222d
Aniki would've hit harder imo.
PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de · 5 pts · 222d
So it's like, large brother?
zikzak025@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 222d
Just the English words "Big Brother" pronounced with a Japanese accent.
vga@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 222d
biggu brothuero
zikzak025@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 222d
Biggu Burazaa
BillyClark@piefed.social · 64 pts · 222d
"-chan" is a diminutive suffix that indicates affection when used. These two factors mean it would never be used in the context of Big Brother.
Even with little knowledge, you should at least come up with alternatives like nii-san, onii-san, onii, nii-sama, etc. Those still wouldn't work well. I'd think that a lot of people would also think of aniki, which is getting closer. But it's definitely the best option to just to what they actually did and just use the English "big brother" like a loan word.
FishFace@piefed.social · 18 pts · 222d
Why is loaning "big brother" better than any of these options?
At this point, "big brother" has entered the lexicon, but originally it was surely supposed to convey the idea of someone you were close to but looked up to, and who would protect you. That irony is kind of lost if you don't translate it.
BillyClark@piefed.social · 24 pts · 222d
The primary reason that I'd put forward is that Japanese people place a lot of importance on social hierarchy, to the point that even between twins, it's important to know which is the older sibling. Because it's used in everyday conversation and in referring to one another (although not quite as much with twins, I just brought that up for emphasis).
The point is that the Japanese version of these words are used a lot more and have a lot of extra meaning compared to the English phrase "Big Brother". So, it's actually a worse fit. Japanese people use enough English loanwords that they probably understand the English phrase, anyways. So, the meaning gets through without the extra unintended baggage from the translation.
It's one of the many pitfalls of translation. Often, there are words that mean "the same thing", but they still aren't the right words because either the extra connotations in the original language or the extra connotations in the target language can throw off the translation.
I think the Japanese translation is fortunate that, in this case, the Japanese language already has so many English loanwords... although I'm not sure whether that was exactly the same case when the book was first translated. It was published in 1948, I think. My recollection is that the English loanword boom started after WW2, so that would be somewhat contemporary.
petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 219d
Thank you for explaining. :)
SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 222d
I think a company beat us to it
taiyang@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 222d
They especially like loan words that most Japanese people kinda know, so yes, definitely the best option.
QuinnyCoded@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 222d
☹️☹️
pivot_root@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 222d
For localization, would -kun work? It wouldn't be a correct translation, but the idea of the average citizen being conditioned into having that closeness and familiarity with Big Brother might make for an interesting take.
BillyClark@piefed.social · 6 pts · 222d
Although I speak some Japanese, I am not an expert in Japanese. I have never heard anybody say nii-kun. It's a common failing of people in my situation to think that because they personally haven't heard it, that it doesn't exist, so I'm not going to say that, but even if it does exist, I don't think -kun would be used.
"-kun" like you said indicates closeness and familiarity, but it also is commonly used for a business subordinate. Like, if you were at work, your boss might refer to you as "pivot-kun", even if you weren't that close. I don't think Big Brother could ever be seen as a subordinate.
With my limited knowledge, if they wanted to use a Japanese word and not an English loanword, I think they'd use aniki or maybe ani-ue (although I've only heard these words in anime, I think people might actually still use aniki? It sounds like a Yakuza sort of word to me). These convey a respect that I think would be necessary for the mental image of Big Brother.
morphballganon@mtgzone.com · 3 pts · 222d
-kun is diminutive too
Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 222d
No you can't watch, onii-chan! Now get out of the bathroom!
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 7 pts · 221d
I would have thought they'd use "ani" considering "oni-chan" is a more familiar nickname type thing and not the actual word for "older brother."
However, in reality, they just use borrowed English and he (it?) is called "Biggu Buraza," in the Japanese translated version of the book. Which I guess makes more sense now that I think about it because Big Brother isn't a person.
SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 222d
Aniki 兄貴
nil@piefed.ca · 3 pts · 221d
more like Nii-sama (兄様), or Aniki
CaptainBasculin@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 222d
Susumu Hirasawa disliked that