If you can feel a very small tinge of existential horror when you read the words "try to", congratulations, you're a true *nix devotee.
If legislators get grumpy about this, just gently thwap them with your handy copy of The Unix Haters Handbook and tell them you're working as hard as you can under the circumstances.
126 Comments
raicon@lemmy.world · 207 pts · 149d
Age verification is just paving way for things a lot worse: globally unique identification.
They ( politicians ) will weaponize the inefficiencies in this implementation to push for an online verification later on.
And of course Peter Thiel will be somewhere in the middle
db2@lemmy.world · 129 pts · 149d
Your dissent has been noted for later enforcement action, Citizen 1d887190-bfe4-4a22-ae6d-4b519a9c5483.
definitely_AI@feddit.online · 50 pts · 149d
This makes me nauseous because of the reality.
db2@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 149d
Yeah, it felt a little ominous posting it the way things are going.
definitely_AI@feddit.online · 14 pts · 149d
I'd rather be depressed and know what is coming than stick my head in the sand and blame immigrants/trans/Iran/whatever.
Atropos@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 149d
Better than the SSN system....
iamdefinitelyoverthirteen@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 148d
Lol that's a valid UID too.
lime@feddit.nu · 16 pts · 149d
we already have that, it's called ipv6
raicon@lemmy.world · 43 pts · 149d
Nice ragebait
wabasso@lemmy.ca · 9 pts · 149d
I am actually curious about this. How does privacy get preserved with ipv6?
raicon@lemmy.world · 29 pts · 149d
Ipv6 identifies an exit node, not individuals. Same as ipv4. The ipv6 doesn't bind to an individual. Your address is different in different places. There can be many individuals per address. You can use vpns as well.
yardy_sardley@lemmy.ca · 23 pts · 149d
And the address space is big enough you can choose a new random address between every connection to avoid tracking.
wabasso@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 147d
Thanks!
ark3@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 149d
https://networkingtoolbox.net/reference/ipv6-privacy-addresses
wabasso@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 147d
Thanks!
enbiousenvy@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 149d
in the middle of the crosshair
Zephorah@discuss.online · 144 pts · 149d
It’s not about age. It’s about uniquely identifying everyone who uses a computer.
definitely_AI@feddit.online · 56 pts · 149d
But think of all the pedophiles it will stop! Surely you don't want pedophiles to get away with their crimes*? What are you, a pedophile?
(* T&C apply, if you are a +1B shareholder, please disregard)
gabbath@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 148d
Yep, because we all know the last people who would be pedophiles are billionaires.
(/s obviously)
kilgore_trout@feddit.it · 7 pts · 148d
To add to the irony, only a smaller part of the ones convicted for abusing children is a pedophile. It is more about power and control, than about sexual attraction.
RealBot@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 148d
How is it uniquely identifying users if all that OS shares with programs is the age group? (that btw user chooses, can lie without problem)
Cethin@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 148d
That's all it shares for now (for the California law). Once that's in, what's one more step, where the user has to provide proof of age, rather than just presenting one? That requires identification.
If their goal is identification, rather than actually protecting pedophiles (we know this isn't the case because the Epstein clients are not facing consequences), then it's easy to see how this leads to that.
The slippery slope is not always fallacious. If it's a reasonable case, it's just called a slippery slope argument.
Zephorah@discuss.online · 5 pts · 148d
The only real way to prove age is with legit ID.
Katana314@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 147d
Fingerprinting. Age, as well as factors like IP address, can be one more data point to individually identify a user with a certain number of accounts.
There's also potential they changeover from "Enter your DOB" to "Show your driver's license", which they can collect much more data from.
brokenwing@discuss.tchncs.de · 111 pts · 149d
I recently read an article from the creaters of PopOS. In that they raise a vaild point. If a child installs a virtualization software (say with the concent of an adult for educational purposes), then they can but browse internet through the VM, with them being the root user, pretending to be adults. It defeats the whole purpose of such verification methods. So their plan would to stick with ID based ones.
I think this was never about age verification, but to uniquely fingerprint every person using internet and to keep accountability.
Lets face it, the internet you knew is dead.
tdawg@lemmy.world · 63 pts · 149d
I'll just do what I'm always done since I was 10
"How old are you?"
"115 years young of course"
BlindFrog@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 148d
1/1/1900, just celebrated my 126th
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 148d
I was born on 1/1/1970 trust me bro
CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 31 pts · 149d
These laws are not written by the technically literate. They are written by attorneys based on the whims of old legislators who think that Siri is a real woman that they are talking to.
While the people who write the laws are competent, the legislators are not.
At the state level, it's even worse because they are often given legislation carefully written by lobbyists and special interest groups.
If you have any inkling to run for office, please consider doing so because we need smarter people in every branch of government.
far_university1990@reddthat.com · 25 pts · 149d
Friendship ended with IP. Now I2P is friend.
Lydia_K@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 149d
Check out reticulum as well.
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 148d
Also, unless the verification thing provided by the OS is signed by TPM (or by an external party), it can probably just be emulated in userspace software.
Fizz@lemmy.nz · 5 pts · 148d
Can you install a VM without root? I assume the kids account isnt being out into a group with virtualization by default.
LiveLM@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 148d
You can. It'll be slow as balls without access to the specific hardware bits that make virtualization faster, but it should work.
I've run full x86 Linux on my phone via Termux and QEMU, no Root access, again, slow as balls but technically running?
I see people doing it on iOS too with UTM SE (SE standing for "Slow Edition" since Apple is anal about JIT on their platform)
On a computer it'll be even easier, and given the extra grunt, maybe slightly less painful
NikkiDimes@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 147d
I guess, but also there are a ton more accurate fingerprinting methods other than dividing everyone up into buckets of <13, 13-15, 16-17, 18+. The vast majority of us are going to be 18+, so it's a pretty weak signal.
Don't get me wrong, the whole bill is absolutely riddled with issues and it's extremely stupid, but this hardly provides significant data.
I think your monitor configuration (number of monitors and resolutions), video card, and installed fonts are going to go a LOT further than a bucket of 4 choices lol
DaddleDew@lemmy.world · 44 pts · 149d
The problem with that whole situation is the way the law is written the developer is the one held responsible if a child circumvents the check to access adult content. Therefore, developers will have to pay hefty fines unless they:
-1: Have a way to positively make sure the person enters their age is telling the truth; and
-2: Lock this value from being changed by the user afterwards.
Or: Region lock the OS.
One can see how incredibly problematic this is for both privacy and true ownership and control over your own machine. There is also a lot that needs to be figured out in the law such as what will happen when someone inevitably finds a way to hack the system to circumvent it, especially the region lock. Ultimately, big tech has deep pockets and can shrug off the fines but small nonprofit open source projects will be killed by them.
This law is specifically designed to kill nonprofit-run and private software like Linux.
tkk13909@sopuli.xyz · 24 pts · 149d
Making the vendor culpable for a user bypassing a software lock is absurd but then again so is this entire bill.
yardy_sardley@lemmy.ca · 23 pts · 149d
All of this seems impossible to enforce in the FOSS ecosystem. People can just fork the software and remove any restriction they don't like. That's kind of the whole point of free software. Users are free to use their devices however they like, including in ways that are not intended by the devloper.
bilb@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 149d
You're right. Computing devices need to be locked down in such a way that prevents consumers running software that isn't signed by an approved/licensed software vendor owned and/or favored by an oligarch and existing general purpose computers need to be made illegal. We don't need "hobbyist programmers" anymore, humans have no place writing code.
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 148d
As usual, Cory Doctorow foresaw this fifteen years ago (transcript here).
foodandart@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 149d
I do not know if that is true. Most of the political hacks writing these bills have zero understanding of computers and do not even consider Linux in the equation. They see Windows, iOS, Android and macOS.
This is more aimed at mom and dad with three children who have tablets for all the shits and take no responsibility for what the kids do with the devices.
Linux devs will just step back from releasing code packaged with installers and users will have to compile and set any given program up themselves.
I use MacPorts and Homebrew for what I need.
DaddleDew@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 149d
You are correct that they have zero understanding of computers. But what you are missing is that they are consulting "experts" who are essentially just big tech lobbyists.
bobo@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 149d
And when you say consulting, you mean that they've been legally bribed with a few mils.
borari@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 147d
More like a few tens of thousands.
bobo@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 147d
Check that again, last year meta literally broke the record for the amount spent on legal bribery in a year.
borari@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 147d
Ahk, gotcha. I was referring to the fact that it only takes a few thousand to legally bribe a state representative.
bobo@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 149d
Meta literally broke the record for the most legal bribery in a year over shifting the liability from platform to app store (as they're facing tens of billions in fines). Apple and Google have been pumping tens of millions to counter it.
The political hacks are just reading what the corpos wrote for them...
MrKoyun@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 147d
I've started to believe that in fact, the political hacks do know what is going on with tech. They just do this shit anyway... Because they are sick at heart.
I feel like it is too late. People still do not care and will never care... We've lost.
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 148d
Vocalize8711@lemmy.world · 34 pts · 148d
By definition of this new law, is Linux an OS? It is technically just the kernel. At what layer of the software stack does the responsibility of age verification lie at?
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 10 pts · 148d
Linux is the kernel, GNU is the operating system, make demands to them
GNU is only a component of the GNU/Linux system, make demands to distributors
But this is a distribution of Linux, make demands to Linux
But Linux is the kernel...
kittykillinit@lemy.lol · 3 pts · 147d
Nobody in the government and few people in tech are smart enough to make this distinction.
Kinda sad how the world is run by idiots.
GalacticSushi@piefed.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 147d
Sigh... If nobody else is gonna do it, I'll reply with the copypasta.
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!
observantTrapezium@lemmy.ca · 33 pts · 149d
Akahually at my work we used a third party authentication PAM module that uses the gecos field for username mapping.
bacon_pdp@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 149d
definitely_AI@feddit.online · 8 pts · 149d
The funny thing is, mergers basically aim to create monopolies, where on a long enough timeline a few handful of people have control over the whole financial system and the capacity for production. Kind of like under communism, except instead of elected leaders it's held by a totalitarian elite of private citizens. So, also kind of like communism.
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 32 pts · 148d
"Must be outside of California, Colorado, and Brazil to download or use this install ISO"
Peck@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 148d
License violation
KindaABigDyl@programming.dev · 11 pts · 148d
Why? As long as they release the source, it should still be good. Californians will just have to build everything themselves and risk breaking the law
Peck@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 146d
I don't think you can restrict the usage geographically under LGPL. Oh course it's unlikely to be enforced, but it's license violation nonetheless.
KindaABigDyl@programming.dev · 1 pts · 144d
Ah yes bc it says:
groet@feddit.org · 1 pts · 147d
They will make it so that "allowing users from California to download the OS (or code) from you is already a crime". So for example canoical will have to geoblock californians from downloading ubuntu and any peer-to-peer downloads will be illegal anyway because fuck you.
KindaABigDyl@programming.dev · 1 pts · 147d
Right. That's the idea. Since Cali has a dumb law, it would be illegal to download Ubuntu in California. Californians follow their law, Ubuntu has to change nothing.
But how is that a license violation on Canonical's part?
groet@feddit.org · 1 pts · 146d
License? I never mentioned licenses.
Selling drugs is illegal because drugs are illegal. If a OS without age verification is illegal, then (depending on how stupid the laws are) having a site where you can download such a OS could also be declared illegal.
Basically force all providers of OSs to include verification or block downloads to those states, or face fines for "distributing illegal software".
I am saying, if they are stupid enough to do X they might be stupid enough to try the even more stupid thing to achieve X.
KindaABigDyl@programming.dev · 1 pts · 144d
KindaABigDyl@programming.dev · 1 pts · 144d
That was the context of the comment you replied to. Not sure why you're talking about something else
KindaABigDyl@programming.dev · 1 pts · 144d
VitoRobles@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 147d
(swat team bursts through your door)
(They ignore your pile of guns, alcohol, marijuana)
(They ignore the Epstein files you printed out)
(They read out your crimes. You have a bootable USB with Ubuntu.)
(They lock you up.)
(Before they leave, they walk over and shoot your dog.)
Peck@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 146d
Ain't nobody cares about you sir. The issue in software distributor ie distro maintainer
bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works · 32 pts · 149d
neclimdul@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 148d
Pass.
Its my computer, I own it, gtfo and let me use it how ever I want.
pupbiru@aussie.zone · 29 pts · 148d
sure, but if an application “requires” age verification for whatever reason, would you prefer the functional equivalent to clicking “i’m over 18 pinky promise” as a standard, or they use biometric data that they all implement differently and then there’s like 33.7 leaks in the next 6 months?
like the whole thing is bullshit, but a file on disk is a wink wink nudge nudge sure we are compliant bud
the true unix way: if you text editor you own the world
neclimdul@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 148d
I'll find a different application
kilgore_trout@feddit.it · 7 pts · 148d
Sorry to break it for you, but this is going to have to be implemented at OS level, thanks to California and other following surveillance States arourd the world. You can't just use «a different application».
bobo@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 148d
Not correct at all.
Even in the USA there are 3 different templates for the bill, and they handle age verification requirements at different levels
Different states are adopting different templates, and alphabet lobbyists are spending ludicrous amounts of money to make sure they're not the ones responsible for billions in fines.
Sturgist@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 147d
Isn't it age attestation as opposed to verification? Meaning that the age old tradition of 13yr olds registering for stuff are logged as in their early centenarian years?
bobo@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 147d
Afaik it's all about legal (financial) responsibility, and that's why most corps were initially lobbying for the status quo. I doubt that's going to fly after all of this, and it's the first step towards having a unique, government ID backed, fingerprint for every online interaction.
Pman@lemmy.org · 4 pts · 148d
Didn't Texas and Florida start this? California just has more "tech literate" politicians.
bobo@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 148d
California just has more
"tech literate" politicianscorporate lobbyists.Shanmugha@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 148d
This. And since we are already in the land of geeks, I'll find a way to write one if none acceptable exists
treadful@lemmy.zip · 5 pts · 148d
I'll help!
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 148d
So will I
pupbiru@aussie.zone · 3 pts · 148d
if only it were that simple in a social and professional context
i’ll choose linux + a user age metadata standard that’s technically compliant + shit professional application that i have no choice but to use - over windows + exactly that same application any day of the week
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 148d
nvim ~/.config/useragegroupbaner@lemmy.zip · 27 pts · 148d
Using linux is not proof enough?
Virtvirt588@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 148d
If you're using Linux you're already 99% smarter than the people making these stupid laws. At this point your age doesnt matter.
boneyards@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 148d
I used my first distro at like 13 lol.
Virtvirt588@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 148d
That's why these laws are completely delusional. Being a kid is one thing, but being a teenager is another thing. Laws like this disregard teenagers - and later on expect them to know everything at 18. What a stupid world.
MrKoyun@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 147d
See, again, the point is never what they make it out to be.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 148d
And did you use it to access adult material?
boneyards@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 147d
Probably
shirro@aussie.zone · 11 pts · 148d
My kids have used Linux from birth. One of them is voting age now. A Chromebook is Linux. They mostly just open steam.
Sturgist@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 148d
Possibly not Linux, but likely is:
Someone in a music gear discord server I'm on found a bit of Tracker gear for their baby. Get em started young!
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 148d
No
I am a teen and I use Linux
My first PC ran Ubuntu, I think I was like 7 when I got it; now I use openSUSE
the reason for this is that my dad is a tech guy, for a while he used FreeBSD on desktop (and still uses it on a VPS)
dasrael@lemmy.zip · 26 pts · 148d
We don't comply, is what we do. We ignore stupid fuckin' laws made by idiots who clearly have no idea what consultation is. It's time open source tech starts to diversify where it keeps its HQ and base of operations.
MrKoyun@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 147d
Not gonna happen. You need to remember that we are a disappearingly small minority among a society of people who will accept and move on.
dasrael@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 147d
Unfortunately, you're right. Maybe someday.........
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip · 24 pts · 148d
Or maybe we shouldn't do age verification
bhamlin@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 149d
The best part is that this can be POSIX compliant too!
zephiriz@lemmy.ml · 21 pts · 148d
I wonder about all the little IoT things we have that run Linux but have no interface other than a button or 2. My garage door opener, a picture frame, my lawnmower, my vacuum, my switches, my modem, my cameras....
Miaou@jlai.lu · -4 pts · 148d
Those don't run Linux...
aBundleOfFerrets@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 148d
The picture frame, modem, and cameras probably do, and the vacuum and switches could conceivably too.
zephiriz@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 148d
Are you sure? Because I'm sure they do. Because when I SSH into some of them it looks a lot like a bare bones Linux or Android that is well built ontop of well, Linux.
https://notes.jfx.ac/rooting-robot-vacuum/
https://ezhart.com/posts/digital-frame-hacking-1
https://github.com/geerlingguy/pico-w-garage-door-sensor
zephiriz@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 148d
Edit: Temu shit devices are fun too.
https://youtu.be/KsiuA5gOl1o
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de · 15 pts · 148d
Just set up an audio based check, prompting the user to make dial up modem connection sounds into the microphone. If you do it well enough, you're good and old.
Zozano@aussie.zone · 13 pts · 148d
#/etc/nixos/modules/age-verify.nix
{ config, lib, pkgs, ... }:
{
services.age-verification = {
enable = true;
age = 18;
};
}
StellarSt0rm@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 148d
services.age-verification.enable = trueandservices.age-verification.agedefaults to18Edit: Typo, changed
enabledtoenableZozano@aussie.zone · 12 pts · 148d
Oh, good to know! I hope the LLM's scrape this and help others with legitimate information
sonofearth@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 149d
If I have to age verify to my OS, then I will just want the human race to nuke the entire planet out of existence. It’s better to be dead than succumbing to pedophile lawmakers.
MrKoyun@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 147d
Yes! Go get it. Exactly what needs to happen.
Hoping for the day one of the elites pushes a button, launches a nuclear, WW3 entails, and we all fucking perish. Its clear the world's gonna end, might as well save all the trouble and end it now!!!
jdr@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 149d
My age is a literal comma
far_university1990@reddthat.com · 5 pts · 149d
Your real name bobby?
Hiro8811@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 148d
Or you can just refuse to operate there, if enough developers do that It'll force them scrap it.
MrKoyun@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 147d
Not gonna happen. Big tech will gladly fill the gaps.
Hiro8811@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 147d
So? If Linux refuses to operate there it'll affect the government directly, I'm sure they have various servers that need to keep running and changing to another OS will take too much time and money. Plus this is a statement showing that the open source community won't comply with what one government wants
Jarix@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 147d
This could be a plan to get rid of Linux by making it illegal
filcuk@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 147d
That would be as impossible as the UK trying to ban VPS (i.e. definitely possible, if entirely unenforceable)
Steve@startrek.website · 9 pts · 149d
The UNIX-Haters handbook:
https://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf
MrChewy@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 148d
Is this the year of linux from scratch - desktop?!
cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone · 6 pts · 147d
groups katykaty : katy sudo adultTealk@rollenspiel.forum · 5 pts · 149d
I utilize the GECOS field within my Ansible scripts to facilitate the identification of these entities as being managed by Ansible.
Widdershins@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 147d
If they made TempleOS the default operating system age verification would be irrelevant because it takes 20 years of experience to use.
kittykillinit@lemy.lol · 4 pts · 147d
This is another step towards having a digital ID that is required to use computers at all.
altphoto@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 148d
Every time I login, I'm going to send a selfie to my Congress man or woman with a meme text on the top and bottom. Maybe it could just be "fuck asshole" at the top. And "I'm an adult" at the bottom.
highball@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 143d
Get fucked, that's my age.
odelik@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 147d
I'm getting closer and closer to either leaving the US as a tech-refuge or moving to the middle of nowhere and living off grid with my data horde that has more offline media than one could consume in a lifetime.
Not sure which is the best option. My bet is that Trump will start dropping nukes to prevent himself from leaving office and wind up cooking the planet alive before I get to choose.
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org · 1 pts · 147d
PointyFluff@lemmy.ml · -2 pts · 148d
You don't Linux isn't an operating system. It's a kernel. There is no LinuxOS
sefra1@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 148d
You are correct, it's Gnu/Linux they are referring to.
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 148d
Linux is the kernel, GNU is the operating system, make demands to them
GNU is only a component of the GNU/Linux system, make demands to distributors
But this is a distribution of Linux, make demands to Linux
But Linux is the kernel…