"This war has nothing to do with NATO. It's not NATO’s war," Stefan Kornelius, a spokesperson for German Chancellor Friedrich Merz, told reporters in Berlin on Monday. "NATO is a defensive alliance, an alliance for the defense of its territory," he added.
Germany to Trump: We won’t help you reopen the Strait of Hormuz
https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-to-trump-this-not-nato-war-strait-hormuz-iran/
68 Comments
GreenBeanMachine@lemmy.world · 294 pts · 158d
track_stick_baboon@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 157d
That paragraph alone, I must frame it.
Bullerfar@lemmy.world · 166 pts · 158d
Good answer. Fuck Benjamin and Donald Ducks war. They don't even know why they did it. NATO is not for undocumented wars.
ClownStatue@piefed.social · 70 pts · 158d
In fairness, they know exactly why they did it:
For The Idiot: Israel needs our help to stop the 40-something-year-old "imminent" threat of an Iranian nuclear bomb (that was supposedly already stopped earlier last year when we "thoroughly destroyed" thir enrichment labs."
For Bibi, it's an opportunity to realize Israel's version of manifest destiny, and to kill people he doesn't like. Remember how everyone was all, "Boy I hope W doesn't go nuclear on the middle east" after 9/11? 10/7 has had the same effect on Bibi, except he was predisposed for the merciless violence. He's never seen these adversaries as "people." W rarely thought about them at all.
OpenPassageways@lemmy.zip · 14 pts · 157d
It's about two fascist leaders making desperate plays to stay in power. That's it.
Ninjasftw@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 157d
Also isn't there pending corruption charges against him that are constantly put on hold because they are at war?
pie_enjoyer@lemmy.world · -22 pts · 157d
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world · 36 pts · 157d
This is how you stop nukes
2015 Iran nuclear deal, Iran agreed not to pursue nuclear weapons and allow continuous monitoring of its compliance in exchange for relief from economic sanctions.
President Donald Trump withdrew from the agreement in 2018. He broke his 2016 campaign promise to renegotiate the agreement.
pie_enjoyer@lemmy.world · -24 pts · 157d
Diurnambule@jlai.lu · 5 pts · 157d
Why kill a entire country when removing one guy is enough ? If the trump dictatorship felt Iran would be more open for a cease fire. May be China or Europe can step up and assume the role of mediator when some give trumps surrender to Iran
redsand@infosec.pub · 2 pts · 157d
Oh wow looking at your other comments are you by chance a teenage male, maybe early 20s? Because you very much read like an angry highschool student with big strong oppions based on very little reading and no concept of strategy.
Mister_Hangman@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 157d
Damn dude bummer for Israel then. Guess they should have been working to arm locals within Iran to overthrow the IRGC so the Iranian people could be free of their own tyranny. Oh wait I forgot. If they did that and no religious zealots were in charge, odds are they’d stop funding Hamas and other groups for proxies and Bibi wouldn’t have a boogy man anymore.
emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 157d
There was this guy called Ayatollah Khamenei who was the religious leader of Iran and opposed the development of nuclear weapons. Wonder what happened to him.
pie_enjoyer@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 157d
MBech@feddit.dk · 9 pts · 157d
because histotically deposing a government and then just leaving the country in chaos tends to give said country democracy?
pie_enjoyer@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 157d
MBech@feddit.dk · 3 pts · 157d
That was literally your whole comment, the fuck?
redsand@infosec.pub · 0 pts · 157d
Ah. You don't know about the Mossad CIA operation that started in the 80s and is still running today. You see Epstein and Maxwell gathered blackmail on the most rich in powerful people in the world. Israel is now using that blackmail trove and intelligence gathered from years of selling governments software to expand Israel into "Greater Israel".
Did you also miss Ghislaine being invite on the 9/11 shadow council?
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · -30 pts · 158d
Glances at the last 80 years of NATO history
:-/
Bullerfar@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 158d
There is a huge difference though. No terror attacks on USA, they already said they "nuked them back to zero" with the other operation. They couldn't define what the end-goal is for operation fury.
They don't even agree on why they do this internally. And now they want other states to join in on a war happened because of Trumps small dick. I say fuck no. Let him have the consequences of this retarded administration for once. Let him dig his own grave.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 158d
You just have to pretend Israel is part of the United States
Bullerfar@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 158d
They are not, and isn't a part of NATO
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 158d
The United States is absolutely part of NATO.
And Israel functions as a forward operating base, from which European military powers can control the Suez and the Eastern Mediterranean. It's fundamental to the Western allied control of North Africa and the Middle East, even before you get into its function as a money laundering outfit and testing bed for military technology and policing strategy.
European leadership has a closer relationship with Israeli military than Turkish military, as a point of comparison.
ranzispa@mander.xyz · -8 pts · 157d
Serbia never attacked the US either.
Barracuda@lemmy.zip · 12 pts · 157d
Clearly the world should have let Serbia continue it's genocide. /S
People bitch when NATO stops a genocide and people bitch when NATO doesn't.
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 0 pts · 157d
I bitch when people can't tell its from it's.
ranzispa@mander.xyz · -6 pts · 157d
UN exists for that purpose, NATO does not exist for that purpose.
Tbf I don't remember many occasions in which people were complaining because NATO should have entered a conflict to stop a genocide.
Herr_S_aus_H@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 157d
You mean like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1244 ?
Samskara@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 157d
Yes, Serbia should have been allowed to genocide more Muslim Bosnians and Albanians. Also Ghadaffi should have been allowed to butcher his population.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 157d
The NATO intervention killed and displaced more civilians than the Bosnian genocide.
From the People's History of the United States, Chapter 24
Again, the French airforce and subsequent NATO occupation has killed an order of magnitude more in the last decade than Ghadaffi managed in his entire time in office.
LittleBorat3@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 157d
Orders of magnitude means to the power of 10, you know that right 😂 It's between 2000 and 5000
Since when do we care about the aggressors in a conflict?
"But but NATO, the west..." 💩
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 157d
The displaced are between 200,000 and 800,000.
When the aggressor is Russian or Chinese.
Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 157d
200k-800k still isn’t an order of magnitude difference. Just a random person reading your folks comments learning about stuff here, no ill intent meant.
D_C@sh.itjust.works · 81 pts · 158d
"but...but..usually when I fuck things up someone sorts it out for me. Why won't you fix my massive fuck up?"
IratePirate@feddit.org · 7 pts · 157d
You're almost
eighteighty. Soon you'll beone of the big boysdead.remon@ani.social · 37 pts · 158d
But not out of principle ... our ships just don't go that far without breaking down!
comrade_twisty@feddit.org · 13 pts · 158d
Isn't the pride of the German Navy a sailboat called the Gorch Fock?
crazycraw@crazypeople.online · 15 pts · 158d
hey gorch fock yourself
jk
GameOverFlow@lemmy.zip · 8 pts · 158d
It's a beautiful ship. But germany hast quite a few real good ships and submarines. Of course no where the quantity of USA.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 158d
Dunno but the German word for team is mannschaft, and there was a German cycling team using Giant bikes, so the were the Giant Mannschaft.
Giggity.
thefluffiest@feddit.nl · 12 pts · 158d
And for 80 years, we were quite happy with that!
— love, your neighbors
RandAlThor@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 158d
lol is that true? are you german?
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de · 35 pts · 158d
It is a bit of a meme in germany that our military equipment suffers from a lack of maintenance. Also there were a bunch of cases of new weapons systems just failing catastrophically or having huge security issues.
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 14 pts · 158d
My country is a bit towards the south and nobody really knows how our ships still manage to float.
We have ships where the entire navigation suite has been replaced with a commercial GPS.
The guns are fired... Every now and then. Sparingly. We still have ammunition from the 70's in stock. Some times we even manage to misplace equipment.
Yet somehow we're considered as the reliable ally, although a bit... wierd.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 3 pts · 157d
Honestly, that'll do just fine in 90% of cases.
Only issues are:
What do you do if some country has maliciously turned off or disabled the GPS satellites?
The commercial GPS unit probably isn't very EMP-resistant, so it might quickly be disabled if EMPs start going off all over the place ... as would happen in a nuclear war.
But as long as you're not fighting anybody capable of turning the entire GPS system off and the war hasn't gone nuclear, it should probably be fine.
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 157d
Sincerely? I'd expect to see astrolabes or sextants being pulled from storage.
OwOarchist@pawb.social · 2 pts · 157d
Most naval ships actually do carry these old school navigation devices (as well as paper charts) and train on how to use them, just for this purpose. Just in case something disables the electronic navigation.
qyron@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 157d
That is nice to know
Samskara@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 157d
While true, Germany also has quite strict rules on rating equipment to not be ready. A broken heating or turning indicator on an IFV means it counts as non operational.
For ships there’s a rule of thumb. One is operational and on a mission, one is being refueled and restocked, one is being refit, maintained, or upgraded. So you need three units to always have one available. Germany has six submarines, meaning two are always available for active operations.
For planes you have to do hours of maintenance for every minute in the air.
The Bundeswehr used to lack funds and personnel, now it lacks mostly qualified personnel.
Herr_S_aus_H@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 157d
The amount of funds was never the problem. The way it was spend is and was the main problem.
_edge@discuss.tchncs.de · 12 pts · 158d
"Bedingt abwehrfähig" is the bureacratic term the government uses to explain that the German military, in particular the equipment, is broken beyond any hope of repair.
Zer0_F0x@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 158d
Germany sold some submarines to Greece that were leaning over on one side out the factory
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 8 pts · 158d
BMW makes submarines?
Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 158d
So Canada is buying the Korean ones then?
gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de · 28 pts · 157d
It feels a lot like Trump shits and then asks us to wipe his ass clean.
Jumi@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 158d
For now, I'd dare a bet on Merz getting back to sucking corpo cock
GameOverFlow@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 158d
He worked for BlackCock i think.
J92@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 157d
Please, sleep alone in the bed you shat in.
MrMakabar@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 157d
Why do you have to kick Netanyahu out of his bed?
Insekticus@aussie.zone · 1 pts · 157d
Well, it's not like he can get up out of the bed himself anymore lol.
Fluke@feddit.uk · 19 pts · 157d
The response from everyone else should be, "Why would we join a war that's already been won?"
Give him his own bloviating bullshit back, served up nice and cold.
ptu@sopuli.xyz · 9 pts · 157d
I think Boris Pistorius was on point:
"What does Trump expect from a handful of European frigates that the powerful US navy cannot do?"
BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 157d
Once their ships show up, the Navy can dip and leave the mess to someone else. He can just move on to the next country on his list
Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 11 pts · 158d
In the words of Knorkator
sockenklaus@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 158d
Knorkator... That's a name I haven't heard for a loooong time and today I learned that they are back from their creative break... Since 2010 🤣
Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 158d
They have a double day gig at Columbiahalle in Berlin, and tickets are hot.
Aber... Zum Glück bin ich ein alter Mann, das geht mich alles nichts mehr an!
Decq@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 158d
Are we going have that brain-dead 'freedom' fries bullshit again? Is this really going to be a repeat of 2003 Iraq? Seeing the limitless supply of brain rot in the US, probably we will.
Jessvj93@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 157d
It's gonna be a lot of foods: freedom fries, freedom burger, freedom sauvignon blanc.
Samskara@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 157d
Even if there’s a full scale invasion of Iran, a repeat of the aftermath of Irak is unlikely. Irak was much more of an artificial country with the major divisions between Kurds, Shia, and Sunni. While Iran also has a bunch of large minorities, it’s more cohesive overall.
Blackmist@feddit.uk · 6 pts · 157d
I like how Trump's response to this is a petulant "well we don't need you anyway, so there!"
Europe needs to seriously up it's arms manufacturing though.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 158d
"Get Ze fucked"
TwilitSky@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 157d
Berlin said NEIN!
TwilitSky@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 157d
lechekaflan@lemmy.world · -2 pts · 157d
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · -12 pts · 157d
Except for the occasional humanitarian bombing.