A jury has found Elon Musk liable for misleading investors by deliberately driving down Twitter's stock price in the tumultuous months leading up to his 2022 acquisition of the social media company for $44 billion. But it absolved him of some fraud allegations, finding that he did not "scheme" to mislead investors.
Elon Musk to Owe Estimated $2.1 Billion After Jury Finds He Misled Twitter Investors Before 2022 Buyout
https://text.npr.org/2026/03/20/g-s1-114660/elon-musk-misled-investors-twitter-purchase
108 Comments
Triumph@fedia.io · 257 pts · 159d
If the punishment is a fine, it's only illegal for poor people.
The only war is class war.
cannedtuna@lemmy.world · 115 pts · 159d
Considering he’s made $400B since acquiring Twitter, this was just a minor cost of doing business.
kautau@lemmy.world · 57 pts · 158d
This is an ATM fee
bobs_monkey@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 158d
Best find a different ATM.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 158d
I don't know, 0.5% isn't a bad rate...
DaGreenGobbo@feddit.uk · 4 pts · 158d
Hmm, maybe in the US. It is a very strange place after all.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 157d
Where do you live where ATM rates are less than .5%?
By the way, using an ATM from the same bank as your card doesn't count, because that's usually free.
DaGreenGobbo@feddit.uk · 2 pts · 157d
I don't think I've ever been charged a fee in Britain. You just use whatever machines are about.
LedgeDrop@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 158d
Serious question: How?
AFAIK, Twitter wasn't terribly profitable before they sold to Musk. Then after he purchased it, the enshittification accelerated.
How on earth does this result in $400 Billions in profit?!?
halcyoncmdr@piefed.social · 28 pts · 158d
He made $400B, not Twitter. That's almost entirely from Tesla and other ventures, not Twitter.
Last I've been able to find Twitter was valued at $33B when xAI bought it. But that was clearly an overvalued sale. Just look at the valuation over time.
And that's just raw valuation which is easily manipulated, not revenue or profit, which can be easily manipulated.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 158d
that is the worst chart
LedgeDrop@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 158d
Ahh, okay. I understand. Thank you for the clarification.
teyrnon@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 158d
It's not real money, and Musk isn't the richest person in truth, not by a long shot. This is theoretical money based on overpriced companies that are propped up by what I suspect are some rather shady practices and investors using it as a casino stock.
theolodis@feddit.org · 8 pts · 158d
The money doesn't have to be real for Elon to be able to use his stock as collateral for billion dollar loans. So he in fact has real money, that banks gave him, and that he will never pay back.
teyrnon@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 158d
While true, a recession will change things.
theolodis@feddit.org · 1 pts · 158d
It will only restrict his ability to get new loans, and make his collaterals worthless. But he probably spent most of the money they gave him, and like with twitter, he shifted the assets around in his network of companies, like a thimblerigger.
But that's kind of like saying that inflation will make the rich poor, which is also not true.
teyrnon@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 158d
When stocks crash, his loans that are backed by those stocks get margin called, and he will have to sell other stock. If the government didn't bail him out, and they will so this is academic, although he will have to pay them bribes secretly obviously that goes without saying, he would see a cascading effect from a recession because his companies are all so overpriced.
DeathsEmbrace@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 158d
Actually worst than imaginable if you delve deep the psychology of the rich is akin to tumour development. Never forget these rich fuckheads would bet over your misery like a game.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 157d
He didn't actually "make" any money. He just stole it from workers, humanity, the planet, etc.
FoxtrotDeltaTango@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 158d
Reverendender@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 158d
I could change the world for the better with this sum. Hell, even with the fee. Oh well, I'm sure it's best that he has that money 🙄🤮.
oyo@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 157d
And there is almost zero chance he actually pays this. If anything, it will be a fraction of the amount in 20 years after he exhausts appeals and pushes deadlines to the max.
Ulrich@feddit.org · 7 pts · 159d
Not necessarily, the fine just needs to be a sufficient size.
Triumph@fedia.io · 19 pts · 158d
Wake me when that happens.
bobs_monkey@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 158d
Sanka, ya dead?
Ulrich@feddit.org · 0 pts · 158d
"Wake me" when anything at all happens...? The point is, they have the power.
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 159d
Fines are not assessed that way.
then_three_more@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 158d
Some are, but they often have maximum caps.
So for a UK speeding fine he'd get a £1000, but if it's wasn't capped it would be somewhere in the region of 340 million.
yakko@feddit.uk · 7 pts · 158d
Why would any such fines be capped, unless the entire point is to effectively legalise crime for the ultra rich?
Tanoh@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 158d
You sound surprised?
yakko@feddit.uk · 4 pts · 158d
More chagrined than anything else. Having dual citizenship with US and UK is like having one foot in the grave and another foot in the toilet sometimes.
IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 158d
Finland has similar thing, but it is not capped. There's a ton of 100 000+€ fines given around here. Obviously with Musk it would be a bit different, since the fine is based on actual income, not some imaginary monopoly money on the stock market.
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 158d
That part is fixable though. Base the fine on valuation of assets.
Ulrich@feddit.org · -2 pts · 159d
...not assessed what way?
slevinkelevra@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 159d
Disclaimer: I know you're probably only trolling, but I'll answer anyway:
...not assessed in a way to be of sufficient size to not just be considered a cost of doing business. In other words, pricey enough to take away the incentive to not only take away the profit but to also deal a significant blow to the wealth of the richest person on earth.
Ulrich@feddit.org · 1 pts · 158d
Believe it or not, everyone who you disagree with or misunderstand is not "trolling".
There is no reason they couldn't assess fines a different way...
Certainly the fines were sufficiently sized in the 90s era when they dropped the hammer on Microsoft.
Ulrich@feddit.org · 0 pts · 158d
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 158d
Percentage of profit accrued from the offense. They are static values.
Ulrich@feddit.org · 0 pts · 158d
Just because they're currently assessed that way doesn't mean they can't be assessed a different way...
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 158d
The class the class that writes laws have decided they don’t want that.
Ulrich@feddit.org · 1 pts · 158d
I don't understand what your point is. No one is saying it's going to happen tomorrow. The point is that fines themselves aren't the problem. The problem is corruption and cronyism. Fines are totally effective when implemented properly.
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world · 107 pts · 159d
So that's like me paying a $20 fine. GOOD JOB
frongt@lemmy.zip · 53 pts · 159d
Except he almost certainly won't be paying anywhere near that amount, if anything.
org@lemmy.org · 7 pts · 159d
Right, he’s just not gonna pay. It’s not like they’re gonna go get the money from his bank account. Can you imagine Elon Musk being garnished? Never gonna happen
MrSulu@lemmy.ml · 76 pts · 158d
For the rest of us, there would be a seizure of assets and a prison term.
CaliforniaSober@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 158d
God bless Willie Nelson…
HertzDentalBar@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 158d
Basically, and it's not even like this is a corporation that has some level of money machine go burr, it's straight up one man who did this and is responsible it should be cut and dry and he should be spending the next few decades in prison.
mechoman444@lemmy.world · 58 pts · 158d
I don't understand why these courts charge a set fine for stuff like this. This is clearly an extremely unique case. The man is 20% shy of being a trillionaire.
What really needs to be done is they need to charge a percentage of his profits. Say 20 to 30%.
Quill7513@slrpnk.net · 7 pts · 158d
Antonin Scalea capped punative damages
frongt@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 158d
Because that's the law.
monkeyslikebananas2@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 158d
… and the billionaires draft the laws.
mechoman444@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 158d
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 157d
Lol. That's not how the state serves capitalism. Fixed fines!!! Gotta put the burden the poor every time.
ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one · 2 pts · 157d
This idea needs to be fine tuned. The problem is that parasitic oligarchs don’t have a real income.
For those who don’t know, the parasite oligarchs take the vast amount of stock that they own and take it to a bank. The bank gives the parasite a loan with the stock as collateral. Right off the vat, the parasite gets to claim debt on their taxes. The parasite will then take the loan and use it to buy more stock or companies or anything that generates more wealth.
Loan gets paid off with the generated wealth. Due to generous tax loop holes put into place by politicians). The parasite gets to claim that they didn’t make any money and get a tax bill of zero and sometimes a refund.
mechoman444@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 157d
This scheme is called “buy, borrow, die.” It’s legal. The stocks are typically not sold off, so capital gains taxes are avoided. Loans and debt are not taxable. It’s effectively profit with relatively low risk. The point is that the level of entry is extremely high. One must already have large amounts of money to qualify for these kinds of loans.
The problem, of course, is that if you start taxing debt, like people taking out loans, it’s not just going to be millionaires, as you called them “parasites,” paying those taxes. It will be everybody taking out a loan, including the poor and the middle class.
The proposed solution is to tax people based on net worth. If you’re worth above a certain amount, then you get taxed at a very high percentage.
With that being said, if that were the case and Elon Musk were taxed like this, he would only pay around $12–$13 billion out of the roughly $800 billion he already has. In essence, it would still be pocket change to him.
At this point, wealthy people not paying taxes has become a kind of game, who can pay the least.
Insekticus@aussie.zone · 52 pts · 159d
That's a fine of $2 out of a total of $800.
I'd speed past cameras if I was running late, and that was the fine.
WanderWisley@lemmy.world · 46 pts · 158d
Spoiler alert: he won’t pay or admit any wrongdoing.
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 158d
So, the Trump school of leadership.
1984@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 158d
This has really spread these days, including living in filter bubbles.
stephen@lazysoci.al · 38 pts · 159d
I wish “massive white color crime” for the expediency that a “Black dude swelling a bit of weed” got.
WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 159d
Idk, swelling the weight of a bag is a dick move and I think it should be punished harshly. /s
stephen@lazysoci.al · 3 pts · 158d
It is. And if we are to have a just government, we ought to have these things governed.
https://navajoeconomy.org/business-regulatory/
rogsson@piefed.social · 30 pts · 158d
It should be % based of his income. Otherwise it’s not a punishment
yabbadabaddon@lemmy.zip · 16 pts · 158d
This does not work because he will find a way to have 0 income (legally). I don't know how we can make the billionaires pay, but we should tax the assets not the incomes.
HertzDentalBar@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 158d
A gun works pretty good, or maybe something like Logan's run but instead of it being age based it's wealth based.
TronBronson@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 158d
That’s the problem with Mr. musketeer he doesn’t actually show income. That’s why we’re always complaining about how billionaires don’t pay income tax.
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today · 3 pts · 158d
How much as he made from his Twitter deal? He made it illegally, confiscate it all.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 158d
It should be the amount he made from it + a fine. It's how the middle class gets handled.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 157d
Is this your first time in capitalism? That's how every fine works. There are no punishments for the privileged.
The president is a pedophile who has been prosecuted for like 30 felonies. They're not fining the creep at all. That's reality.
CovfefeKills@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 158d
That is the price of new phone for him compared to us...
minorkeys@lemmy.world · 28 pts · 158d
He's made billions more after and because of it so he doesn't give a shit about a meaningless, billion dollar fine.
blady_blah@lemmy.world · 13 pts · 158d
It's an ego thing, he'll hire a bunch of really expensive lawyers and drag it out as long as he can. This is what the rich do.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 158d
if you drag it out, a billion dollar fine becomes a million real fast
Hupf@feddit.org · 4 pts · 158d
https://youtu.be/xyyqoHCkw9I
minorkeys@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 158d
That's a power thing. Avoiding accountability to the rule of law.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca · 24 pts · 157d
That's it, again?
JAIL TIME!
If I steal a bread to feed my hungry children I'll go to jail, but this guy ficks around with billions and all he gets is a tiny slap on his fingers?
GreenBeanMachine@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 158d
Etterra@discuss.online · 14 pts · 158d
That's assuming they can even get him to pay it.
TronBronson@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 158d
Ya for about 10% of that cost the lawyers will keep working hard to contest.
wewbull@feddit.uk · 1 pts · 158d
I don't know how much he has liquid. The article says that "most" of his 814B is tied up in Tesla stock. Selling a couple of billion worth of stock isn't trivial.
anotherspinelessdem@lemmy.ml · 18 pts · 158d
Cool, so when this reaches Appeals court (which is where it's absolutely going next because they'll definitely appeal it), that 2.1B$ fine will get knocked down to 10$ and a blowjob (for Elon).
But hey, the Washington Post or whatever can get a nice little headline out of it where they pretend billionaires face any sort of punishment in this Capitalist hellscape for 5 seconds so that's nice.
zbyte64@awful.systems · 1 pts · 157d
To be clear, the punishment wasn't him loosing 2B, he wouldn't even notice the difference. The punishment was being told he was wrong by a jury of his "peers".
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 158d
Drop in a bucket. He should be fined of the money he paid to buy Twitter.
1984@lemmy.today · 17 pts · 158d
So the public paid to see another billionaire do things nobody else can do and get away with it. Nice.
brownsugga@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 157d
Oh No, point 2 % of his net worth
0.2%
literally less than a traffic ticket in terms of scale
sunbeam60@feddit.uk · 7 pts · 157d
I mean I dislike the guy as much as you, but almost all of his “wealth” is paper wealth. He may very well not be able to liquidate 2% of his wealth (fine with me).
iglou@programming.dev · 15 pts · 157d
He doesn't have to liquidate shit, none of them do. They borrow against their holdings.
sunbeam60@feddit.uk · 0 pts · 157d
Yes of course. But a lot of it ain’t vested and so the terms may not be great or downright unpalatable.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 157d
Point is that if I commit fraud or steal anything over 10 dollars I might go to jail
This guy lies steals and cheats by the billions and he gets a hug
Jail the motherfucker already
SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 157d
Reminds me of the same defense some people make in divorce court
brownsugga@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 157d
0.2% not 2%
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca · -2 pts · 157d
Paper wealth and theoretical wealth, he will have to borrow that $2B using paper value as collateral.
drislands@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 157d
...is Musk worth a trillion dollars now?
Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 157d
I mean, financially, yeah I think so. Which is ironic, since as a person he's worth about as much as a large turd in a small bag.
13igTyme@piefed.social · 14 pts · 158d
I wasn't invested in Twitter, but when I heard he was trying to get out of it I bought some stock. I knew he couldn't get out of the deal because it doesn't work like that and he's a dumb ass.
My only regret was not buying more. Thanks for the money, idiot.
Reverendender@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 158d
Next time please also let me know I should do that
jontree255@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 159d
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 158d
He'll pay it, then make it back by lunch.
SethTaylor@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 158d
He'll have it back in a month...
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 158d
They should repossess it and place it in the hands of a responsible steward...
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 158d
I think he can cut you a check for that in the court room.
melsaskca@lemmy.ca · 5 pts · 157d
Money no longer talks. You need hard time for these societal meddlers.
RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 159d
Hope the Saudis treat a fraudster as harshly as a journalist
quarkquasar@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 157d
mthomson@forum.macaque.social · 4 pts · 158d
oh c'mon! didn't intentionally mislead investors? just accidentally. so they're saying he's an idiot?
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 157d
It's hard to prove intent against a billionaire. It would've been easy if he was a poor black dude.
db2@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 159d
And now the people he owes will never be broke. They'll always have that money coming "some day".
resipsaloquitur@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 159d
HAH.
gwl@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 157d
Nothing ever happens though, so he'll just take a loan and still be just as wealthy as he already was
xenomor@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 158d
Can’t wait to see how the system fails to make him account for this, again.
MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world · -1 pts · 159d
Whatev.