The improvements Valve made for the original Steam Deck and prep for the Steam Machine across the Linux ecosystem for schedulers, graphics drivers, io_uring, ntsync, KDE, Wine, etc. were massive, even outside of gaming.
I don't see them expanding to ARM making as much of a difference to the ecosystem as their first forray.
That's why I'm curious what improvements OP was thinking of; maybe there's more than FEX that I'm not aware of
Generally x86 -> ARM is much easier on Linux than MacOS/Windows
You obviously know a lot about this stuff, I do not.
I'm excited for FEX, because even though some games can technically be played on arm right now, and even though you say it's easy to convert (I have no idea), the fact is nobody is doing it 🤷♂️
I understand Valve did a lot of work to make gaming not only possible on Linux, but in some cases preferable.
From a layman's non-software-developer perspective, regardless of how much actual effort is required by Valve... I hope that FEX will shift the industry as aggressively as proton did. I hope that gaming on arm becomes no big deal, easy to do with a click, and preferable in some cases. Whereas right now, it's not that easy or performant, as I understand.
Ngl, I was a user the whole time, before and after, and can't tell a difference. Except maybe slightly better HDR support? They mostly donated to KDE tho (!= the kernel).
Valve contributes to the kernel too. Mainly in the are of file systems, scheduler improvements and drivers. Also gamescope, proton, mesa/vulkan, they do a lot!
So performance? Idk, I zone out or go get a glass of water whenever something's compiling or some bloatware is trying to launch. Probably like 0.x second improvements (in addition to the random "faster paths" the maintainers add from time to time regardless).
drivers, mesa/vulkan
I have an AMD APU, kind of sharing a lot of code with the Deck hardware. GPU suspend was broken twice (when the machine was new + 2 weeks ago). Oh, and whenever my uptime exceeds like 10 days or so, it sometimes decides to wake up to a black screen with my cursor (and the entire plymouth shutdown screen) being colored stripes. Now, the popularity of the Steam Deck made navigating issue trackers near impossible. Constant dump of random bullshit daily. Lots of shit is being closed as duplicate of other bugs which are slightly different but "close enough".
gamescope
If we are talking about impact, may as well mention that they could have forked cage or something for the compositor.
proton
Cool. The ReactOS/Wine people do most of the work on matters other than obscure graphics and application specific quirks though. One must really hate themselves to understand Win32 internals in the first place, so you have to give them credit. Also, Valve's fork is often pretty outdated to upstream which is why lots of people are using the third party fork of the fork that rebases with the original (Proton GE).
Honestly same. I dabbled with Arch back in college but that was over a decade ago, and I just kept going back to Windows for everything but especially for gaming.
The deck was a bit of an eye-opener, I hadn't kept up with linux news basically since I deleted that old Arch install, and I had no idea things were this good over here now. The deck convinced me to give a desktop distro another shot, and I've been daily driving CachyOS for over a year since.
I think they just meant as far as user popularity. More people are hearing about Linux thanks to the SD and other SteamOS handhelds. Maybe the SD 2 help show that ARM can play games beyond just emulators?
It's a no-brainer, really. All Steam Decks have been out of stock for literal months here in Europe. It's clear they can't deliver much more at the moment given the current hardware prices. Might as well develop something beefier before putting even more overpriced RAM and storage space into the old Steam Deck for much longer. It will be years until the Steam Deck 2 will release anyway.
The Steam Deck released in 2022… 4 years ago. It’s now a bit underpowered, especially when compared to the Switch 2 and newer Windows handhelds. Even ARM based handhelds are catching up. I think next year would be the perfect time for a steam deck 2.
Yes, why do people always want bigger. In my opinion 7" is plenty and my device has a 6" screen that is perfect. I can actually hold the device for extended sessions without getting fatigued.
I would want a smaller device and larger screen. Aka reduce the bezels. The deck has comically large bezels.
Also, the size of the device does not have much to do with its weight. I would rather a larger comfitable device then a tiny one that gives me cramps to use. Lighter weight is always a plus. But not always worth the tradeoffs. I would not want a lightweight device that only lasts 30mins of usage.
It would also help spread Linux into the tablet market as well. If people were using their decks as a tablet as well that could lead to helping the future of an authentic usable Linux phone.
I don't know the sizing, but I wonder if a keyboard could be added... Like how the switch has that piece that connects the two detached controllers into one controller.. that middle piece could possibly be a keyboard.
~2029 once the recession has hit, housing market has exploded and we get 15-20% unemployment from all the AI devs getting shitcanned and all the workers "replaced by AI" still can't find jobs because their employer downsized to build a warchest in record low tax time.
The appeal of the Steam Deck for me was the affordability. Glad I got one while that was still a thing. This will easily be well over a thousand dollars.
38 Comments
favoredponcho@lemmy.zip · 77 pts · 103d
ozymandias117@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 103d
Linux has worked extremely well on ARM for at least 17 years. What improvements are you hoping an ARM based Steam Deck would make?
Damarus@feddit.org · 26 pts · 103d
X86 on ARM.
ozymandias117@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 103d
So, primarily just forwarding OpenGL/Vulkan commands directly through FEX, rather than QEMU's user mode?
Certainly helpful for games, but the majority of code on Linux boxes is recompiled to be native when using ARM
Damarus@feddit.org · 23 pts · 103d
Well yeah, the Steam Deck is all about games.
ozymandias117@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 103d
The improvements Valve made for the original Steam Deck and prep for the Steam Machine across the Linux ecosystem for schedulers, graphics drivers, io_uring, ntsync, KDE, Wine, etc. were massive, even outside of gaming.
I don't see them expanding to ARM making as much of a difference to the ecosystem as their first forray.
That's why I'm curious what improvements OP was thinking of; maybe there's more than FEX that I'm not aware of
Generally x86 -> ARM is much easier on Linux than MacOS/Windows
hereiamagain@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 102d
I'm not OP. But I think I share his sentiment.
You obviously know a lot about this stuff, I do not.
I'm excited for FEX, because even though some games can technically be played on arm right now, and even though you say it's easy to convert (I have no idea), the fact is nobody is doing it 🤷♂️
I understand Valve did a lot of work to make gaming not only possible on Linux, but in some cases preferable.
From a layman's non-software-developer perspective, regardless of how much actual effort is required by Valve... I hope that FEX will shift the industry as aggressively as proton did. I hope that gaming on arm becomes no big deal, easy to do with a click, and preferable in some cases. Whereas right now, it's not that easy or performant, as I understand.
So I guess.. I'm just excited, that's all 🤷♂️
ApertureUA@lemmy.today · 2 pts · 103d
Ngl, I was a user the whole time, before and after, and can't tell a difference. Except maybe slightly better HDR support? They mostly donated to KDE tho (!= the kernel).
Gebruikersnaam@lemmy.ml · 29 pts · 103d
Valve contributes to the kernel too. Mainly in the are of file systems, scheduler improvements and drivers. Also gamescope, proton, mesa/vulkan, they do a lot!
ApertureUA@lemmy.today · -4 pts · 103d
So performance? Idk, I zone out or go get a glass of water whenever something's compiling or some bloatware is trying to launch. Probably like 0.x second improvements (in addition to the random "faster paths" the maintainers add from time to time regardless).
I have an AMD APU, kind of sharing a lot of code with the Deck hardware. GPU suspend was broken twice (when the machine was new + 2 weeks ago). Oh, and whenever my uptime exceeds like 10 days or so, it sometimes decides to wake up to a black screen with my cursor (and the entire plymouth shutdown screen) being colored stripes. Now, the popularity of the Steam Deck made navigating issue trackers near impossible. Constant dump of random bullshit daily. Lots of shit is being closed as duplicate of other bugs which are slightly different but "close enough".
If we are talking about impact, may as well mention that they could have forked cage or something for the compositor.
Cool. The ReactOS/Wine people do most of the work on matters other than obscure graphics and application specific quirks though. One must really hate themselves to understand Win32 internals in the first place, so you have to give them credit. Also, Valve's fork is often pretty outdated to upstream which is why lots of people are using the third party fork of the fork that rebases with the original (Proton GE).
favoredponcho@lemmy.zip · 24 pts · 103d
figjam@midwest.social · 14 pts · 103d
Without my experience with the deck, I would have continued to believe that linux wasn't for games.
There is a straight line from me trying a deck out to me getting my family off of windows.
nfreak@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 102d
Honestly same. I dabbled with Arch back in college but that was over a decade ago, and I just kept going back to Windows for everything but especially for gaming.
The deck was a bit of an eye-opener, I hadn't kept up with linux news basically since I deleted that old Arch install, and I had no idea things were this good over here now. The deck convinced me to give a desktop distro another shot, and I've been daily driving CachyOS for over a year since.
yuri@pawb.social · 6 pts · 103d
idk if proton would exist if valve didn’t make the deck
ApertureUA@lemmy.today · 1 pts · 103d
You mean in 2018? When the Index was being developed top secret?
K3can@lemmy.radio · 4 pts · 103d
I think they just meant as far as user popularity. More people are hearing about Linux thanks to the SD and other SteamOS handhelds. Maybe the SD 2 help show that ARM can play games beyond just emulators?
semperverus@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 100d
The steam frame will do that
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world · 52 pts · 103d
sundray@lemmus.org · 17 pts · 103d
hopesdead@startrek.website · 21 pts · 103d
What is with the need to push out a second generation device so soon. It feels just like yesterday they released this, the first one.
chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world · 31 pts · 103d
I mean.... The original LCD model released half a decade ago. The OLED was after, but barely provided any improvement beyond the screen.
Airfried@piefed.social · 17 pts · 103d
It's a no-brainer, really. All Steam Decks have been out of stock for literal months here in Europe. It's clear they can't deliver much more at the moment given the current hardware prices. Might as well develop something beefier before putting even more overpriced RAM and storage space into the old Steam Deck for much longer. It will be years until the Steam Deck 2 will release anyway.
detren@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 103d
The Steam Deck released in 2022… 4 years ago. It’s now a bit underpowered, especially when compared to the Switch 2 and newer Windows handhelds. Even ARM based handhelds are catching up. I think next year would be the perfect time for a steam deck 2.
mavu@discuss.tchncs.de · 13 pts · 103d
waiting for the AI bubble to pop, to get some RAM at sweet sweet low prices. Smart.
ordnance_qf_17_pounder@reddthat.com · 11 pts · 103d
2 usb-c ports, much bigger screen, much better APU, thats all I ask!
Flaim@discuss.tchncs.de · 32 pts · 103d
counter argument: make it pocketable
viral.vegabond@piefed.social · 20 pts · 103d
Yes, why do people always want bigger. In my opinion 7" is plenty and my device has a 6" screen that is perfect. I can actually hold the device for extended sessions without getting fatigued.
nous@programming.dev · 3 pts · 103d
I would want a smaller device and larger screen. Aka reduce the bezels. The deck has comically large bezels.
Also, the size of the device does not have much to do with its weight. I would rather a larger comfitable device then a tiny one that gives me cramps to use. Lighter weight is always a plus. But not always worth the tradeoffs. I would not want a lightweight device that only lasts 30mins of usage.
Butterphinger@lemmy.zip · 15 pts · 103d
Steam Deck mini, same performance, pocketable, dockable.
I'd die happy, because this also means there's a dockable linux laptop in my pocket, games-aside, that's a well-added tool.
woelkchen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 103d
I'd settle for Switch 2 weight and thickness.
IAmYouButYouDontKnowYet@reddthat.com · 10 pts · 103d
Detachable controllers, so that it can be a good Linux tablet as well! Dominate two markets!!!!!
ordnance_qf_17_pounder@reddthat.com · 5 pts · 103d
Yes, that too! I've got a Lenovo Legion Go and its great with controllers detached
IAmYouButYouDontKnowYet@reddthat.com · 5 pts · 103d
It would also help spread Linux into the tablet market as well. If people were using their decks as a tablet as well that could lead to helping the future of an authentic usable Linux phone.
I don't know the sizing, but I wonder if a keyboard could be added... Like how the switch has that piece that connects the two detached controllers into one controller.. that middle piece could possibly be a keyboard.
DarkFuture@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 102d
Enjoy it. It'll be their last.
Because Valve can't count to....aww fuck it.
UnfairUtan@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 102d
Would be nice to get one for the Steam Frame, Machine, and controller first
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 102d
Controller is May 4th.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social · 4 pts · 103d
~2029 once the recession has hit, housing market has exploded and we get 15-20% unemployment from all the AI devs getting shitcanned and all the workers "replaced by AI" still can't find jobs because their employer downsized to build a warchest in record low tax time.
That's my guess anyway.
TachyonTele@piefed.social · 0 pts · 103d
The hell does that have to do with anything?
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social · 4 pts · 103d
Have you been observing the NAND apocalypse and its impact on consumer electronics release and pricing?
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 102d
The appeal of the Steam Deck for me was the affordability. Glad I got one while that was still a thing. This will easily be well over a thousand dollars.
galaxy_nova@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 100d
Hoping for oculink or thunderbolt so I can have a nice lan rig.