That "96% Tibetan language" stat is a classic distraction. It ignores the cost of that statistic. You can boast about language retention while simultaneously criminalizing the Dharma, arresting monks, and using state violence to suppress any mention of the Dalai Lama. A language isn't "thriving" if its speakers are being systematically silenced through fear and imprisonment. Don't mistake linguistic survival for cultural freedom.
Buddhist Marxist here. The dhamma isn't criminalized in Tibet or elsewhere. China has one of the strongest Buddhist monastic movements in the world, and Tibetan Buddhism is not criminalized.
Totally confused by this. Why is there a "cost" in preserving the Tibetan language in Tibet?
The Dalai lama and his family refused to liberate his serfs, and fought against this movement. Even his own brother was a CIA terrorist asset. This goes along with the CIA tactic of seeking out religious reactionaries to combat communism.
Tashi Delek Dessalines La, Don't mistake a permitted existence for a free one. To trade the overt chains of feudalism for the subtle surveillance of the state is not progress; it is merely a change in architecture. A culture is not 'thriving' if it only exists by the state's leave. A gilded cage is still a cage.
Going from slavery and amputation as punishment to being free and Tibet being developed is not a mere change in architecture. Are you seriously saying the former is better? Even if we were to believe in the surveillance of the state, that is STILL far better than the former like come the fuck on.
Oh dear...you know that the screenshot you posted speaks about... betrayal. You should look up Adrian Zenz. He's not the source you should quote. He's a member of an anti communist thinktank.
He's not the source, he's just an amusing messenger. The fact that 16 nations sent delegates to investigate and called bullshit on the US is an easily verifiable fact, and one that nobody pushing the Uighur genocide narrative ever has a good answer for.
it has to be a systematic, widespread extermination, or attempted extermination, of a national, racial, religious, or ethnic group. There are elements that are present in the Chinese case, but it’s not clear that the intent is to lead to the extermination of a particular ethnic group.
Cool surface cherry picking. Tibetans are one of the minority groups in China, as opposed to the entirety of indigenous peoples in the US which is the comparison being made. It also only highlights the language, disregarding the cultural and religious practices.
I do think it’s awesome to keep languages alive, but that’s not a whole culture.
In other news, indigenous peoples in the US have their own legal system that applies to their lands and which isn’t easily infringed on by the federal or state governments. That’s not true in China, so while they can speak their language they are still under other types of oppression.
in china minorities get their own autonomous provinces (e.g. Xinjiang for Uyghurs, Tibet for Tibetans) which would be like if the US gave the Navajo nation a whole state with their own autonomy
and their languages on currency
(also you aint slick, imagine having no other points so you scroll through my page, find the other post and copy and paste your comment)
edit: to be clear, I have not said anything. op said "it would be like if this thing existed" and I pointed to that thing existing. any inference you draw from that is your own, and is ultimately a reflection of your thoughts about the argument presented by op. rejection of an argument for a point is not necessarily rejection of the point itself; it is possible to construct a flawed argument to support the point that 1+1=2
cool surface-level confidence. you might want to consider reading a single supreme court decision for the last few decades. congress has plenary power over tribes -- meaning that congress can abolish tribal courts, override tribal verdicts, or sell tribal land without consent whenever it feels like it.
there's also lone wolf v. hitchcock; used last year in castro-huerta where the supreme court ruled that states can prosecute crimes by non-indigenous against indigenous on reservations -- overriding tribal jurisdiction. not to mention that the major crimes act of 1885 stripped tribes of prosecuting felonies like murder. there's also public law 280 imposed state jurisdiction on reservations in six states without a single tribal vote.
so no, tribal legal systems aren't "not easily infringed on." they exist at congress's pleasure. the only difference between the us and china here is that the us has better pr.
the anglosphere buried children and genocided the rest of their familes while china built schools -- quit swallowing american propaganda.
american, canadian and australian policies were genocidal. they built residential schools that forcibly removed indigenous children; banned their languages; and caused thousands of deaths. over 1,800 unmarked graves were recently discovered in canada alone and all three countries had a policy of "kill the indian, save the man." canada’s indian act stripped sovereignty, banned ceremonies, and enabled forced sterilizations into the 1970s.
china has nothing close to this. yes, it promotes mandarin in education, but minority languages (tibetan, uyghur, mongolian) are still taught, used and -- most importantly-- not banned. ethnic autonomous regions cover over 60% of china’s territory yet no mass graves; no stolen children; no forced sterilization like in the united states, canada, australia, greenland or even isreal.
In addition to mass detention, government policies have included suppression of Uyghur religious practices,[7] political indoctrination,[8] forced sterilization,[9] forced contraception,[10][11] and forced abortion.[12][13] An estimated 16,000 mosques have been razed or damaged,[2] and hundreds of thousands of children have been forcibly separated from their parents and sent to boarding schools.
The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.
The only countries pushing this narrative are the “always the same map” imperial core countries, which just so happen to be largely the same ones supporting Israel’s genocide.
Almost no predominantly-Muslim country buys the Uyghur genocide narrative, because they know it’s bullshit, because they talked to the Uyghurs themselves. https://twitter.com/un_hrc/status/1578003299827171330
#HRC51 | Draft resolution A/HRC/51/L.6 on holding a debate on the situation of human rights in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of #China, was REJECTED.
In accordance with China's affirmative action policies towards ethnic minorities, all non-Han ethnic groups were subject to different laws and were usually allowed to have two children in urban areas, and three or four in rural areas.
(e) Show me the forcible transfer of children from one group to another group
violent incidents in East Turkestan
I wonder where those Salafi terrorists came from? Oh right: the US, UK, and Israel organized, funded, and trained them, as they did Al Qaeda and the various flavors of ISIS/ISIL, including the “moderate rebels” that just took over Syria. The blueprint of regime change operationsHow regime change happens in the 21st century with your consent.
I repeat again, I am not defending America or the West. But any claim that China is somehow better is simply a lie. This has nothing to do with capitalism/communism and everything to do with the oppression of the minority by the majority.
not even elementary school children are allowed to cite wikipedia anymore because it so biased and wrong. lol
and speaking of bias: nearly half the citations in the references are funded by the us government -- both directly and indirectly. go read to what happened when trump gutted most of usaid and you’ll see how deep the american propaganda factory goes.
or better yet, do yourself a favor -- read anything from the american freedom of information act. the american gov't has effectively been forced to admit it fabricates propaganda and this fact has been public record since the 1970s, americans still believe the propaganda anyways.
i'll restate my comment using a copy/paste of different comment:
the freedom of information act provides a quick & easy litmus test for things like this – and human rights watch fails it.
since 1979, the freedom of information act has been proving that the western characterization of north korea as a hermit kingdom with despotic rulers was american manufactured propaganda – and almost 50 years later, human rights watch still believes the propaganda somehow.
this isn’t some random conspiracy theory – this is the american 👏 fucking 👏 government 👏 itself effectively admitting it to the public and in writing almost a half century ago that they manufactured this propaganda, but human rights watch still believes in this propaganda anyways so there’s no reason to listen to what they have to say about china.
A bunch of nations economically dependant on China were given a tour of what Being wanted them to see and spoon fed propaganda. Your continued efforts to whitewash Chinese genocide are abhorrent.
Gotta love talking with China MAGA. Always a wall of text explaining how awful america is, but never any acceptance that china has committed any wrongdoing. Screaming "western propaganda", while spewing the most obvious and blatant Chinese propaganda imaginable.
A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar for a friendly drink.
"I have to admit, I'm always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up," the CIA agent says.
"Thank you," the KGB says. "We do our best but truly, it's nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them."
The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. "Thank you friend, but you must be confused... There's no propaganda in America."
The first step is to understand the media, which Media Bias/Fact Check and the Ad Fontes Media* are never going to teach you. The only people who are taught it are those who get degrees in marketing, public relations, political science, history, and journalism; and even then only some of them.
The standards are part of RAND’s ongoing project on “truth decay”: a phenomenon that RAND researchers describe as “the diminishing role that facts, data, and analysis play in our political and civic discourse.”
None of it is a secret, though, and it can be learned.
“China voted in favor of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples” and your beloved daddy america voted against it, the declaration was being voted on in 2007 when the 5 minority autonomous regions were established between 1947 -1965, it wasn’t until 1975 with the “Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act” did the native americans get autonomy
75 Comments
Termight@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 89d
That "96% Tibetan language" stat is a classic distraction. It ignores the cost of that statistic. You can boast about language retention while simultaneously criminalizing the Dharma, arresting monks, and using state violence to suppress any mention of the Dalai Lama. A language isn't "thriving" if its speakers are being systematically silenced through fear and imprisonment. Don't mistake linguistic survival for cultural freedom.
dessalines@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 89d
Buddhist Marxist here. The dhamma isn't criminalized in Tibet or elsewhere. China has one of the strongest Buddhist monastic movements in the world, and Tibetan Buddhism is not criminalized.
The Tibetan slave-owning theocracy was as brutal as it gets: 95% of the population of tibet were slaves or feudal serfs before China liberated it in 1959. The medieval tortures the population were put through, were some of the most brutal in the modern era.
Totally confused by this. Why is there a "cost" in preserving the Tibetan language in Tibet?
The Dalai lama and his family refused to liberate his serfs, and fought against this movement. Even his own brother was a CIA terrorist asset. This goes along with the CIA tactic of seeking out religious reactionaries to combat communism.
Also what is with all the racist vibes-posting? Is it impossible to provide a source anymore?
Termight@lemmy.ml · -11 pts · 89d
Tashi Delek Dessalines La, Don't mistake a permitted existence for a free one. To trade the overt chains of feudalism for the subtle surveillance of the state is not progress; it is merely a change in architecture. A culture is not 'thriving' if it only exists by the state's leave. A gilded cage is still a cage.
CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 89d
??? How would any culture exist without being allowed to ?
EmmiLime@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 89d
Going from slavery and amputation as punishment to being free and Tibet being developed is not a mere change in architecture. Are you seriously saying the former is better? Even if we were to believe in the surveillance of the state, that is STILL far better than the former like come the fuck on.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 89d
Horsey@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 89d
Tibet was sold to China in the 20th century. Natives in America were conquered and uprooted centuries ago, and more than once.
Riverside@reddthat.com · 9 pts · 89d
BrilliantantTurd4361@sh.itjust.works · -1 pts · 88d
Wonder how many Uyghurs still speak Uyghur 🤔
queermunist@lemmy.ml · 6 pts · 88d
There are 10 million native speakers in China, out of a total population of 12 million.
This isn't the own you think it is.
Schlemmy@lemmy.ml · -3 pts · 89d
Can't they be both?
https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/02/1133212
https://www.savetibet.eu/issue/united-nations/
https://tibetoffice.eu/beijing-faces-fresh-eu-scrutiny-as-lawmakers-convene-a-hearing-to-examine-impact-of-chinas-ethnic-unity-law-on-tibetans-uyghurs-and-other-targeted-groups/
https://tibet.net/statement-on-international-human-rights-violations-in-tibet-and-chinas-systemic-breaches-of-international-standards/
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 88d
Get new material
Schlemmy@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 74d
Why? I'm no suckup to any nation or government. Governments will opress when they feel like they need to.
The whole of liberal Europe oppressed it's citizens during covid. I got fined for sitting on a park bench.
Denmark oppressed the natives in Greenland.
China... Well...
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 3 pts · 74d
Well what? You don't have to believe China is perfect to recognize that the Uighur genocide narrative is fictional
Schlemmy@lemmy.ml · 0 pts · 74d
Oh dear...you know that the screenshot you posted speaks about... betrayal. You should look up Adrian Zenz. He's not the source you should quote. He's a member of an anti communist thinktank.
And about that
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 74d
He's not the source, he's just an amusing messenger. The fact that 16 nations sent delegates to investigate and called bullshit on the US is an easily verifiable fact, and one that nobody pushing the Uighur genocide narrative ever has a good answer for.
Schlemmy@lemmy.ml · -1 pts · 68d
Owkey... So, ''all is queit on the Western front''?
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/5/14/the-faux-anti-imperialism-of-denying-anti-uighur
https://bitterwinter.org/fake-uyghurs-v-genuine-uyghurs-in-the-hague-what-exactly-happened/
The only source that I find that tries to debunk the claim in depth is this one
https://medium.com/@braisedporkblog/debunking-the-uyghur-genocide-a-resource-list-a31dd0ea3d87
But maybe it is because of the interpretation of the word genocide?
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-hasnt-the-un-accused-china-of-genocide-in-xinjiang
menas@lemmy.wtf · -6 pts · 89d
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 89d
dessalines@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 89d
Vex_Detrause@lemmy.ca · -7 pts · 89d
Human Rights Watch article for this year. Still oppressive.
Silliari@quokk.au · 13 pts · 89d
HRW is CIA funded, try again
Vex_Detrause@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 68d
Can I get a source for this?
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 89d
Imagine still Zenzposting in 2026
davel@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 89d
hrw can smd[1][2][3]
Riverside@reddthat.com · 10 pts · 89d
Oni_eyes@sh.itjust.works · -9 pts · 90d
Cool surface cherry picking. Tibetans are one of the minority groups in China, as opposed to the entirety of indigenous peoples in the US which is the comparison being made. It also only highlights the language, disregarding the cultural and religious practices.
I do think it’s awesome to keep languages alive, but that’s not a whole culture.
In other news, indigenous peoples in the US have their own legal system that applies to their lands and which isn’t easily infringed on by the federal or state governments. That’s not true in China, so while they can speak their language they are still under other types of oppression.
Silliari@quokk.au · 25 pts · 90d
in china minorities get their own autonomous provinces (e.g. Xinjiang for Uyghurs, Tibet for Tibetans) which would be like if the US gave the Navajo nation a whole state with their own autonomy
and their languages on currency
(also you aint slick, imagine having no other points so you scroll through my page, find the other post and copy and paste your comment)
arctanthrope@lemmy.world · -14 pts · 90d
edit: to be clear, I have not said anything. op said "it would be like if this thing existed" and I pointed to that thing existing. any inference you draw from that is your own, and is ultimately a reflection of your thoughts about the argument presented by op. rejection of an argument for a point is not necessarily rejection of the point itself; it is possible to construct a flawed argument to support the point that 1+1=2
AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 90d
Okay now post the one with the size of the reservations over 100 years and do the same for China
Silliari@quokk.au · 11 pts · 90d
not really anywhere close to the size of Guanxi for example, which is the smallest in china
KimBongUn420@lemmy.ml · 10 pts · 90d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantustan
eldavi@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 90d
cool surface-level confidence. you might want to consider reading a single supreme court decision for the last few decades. congress has plenary power over tribes -- meaning that congress can abolish tribal courts, override tribal verdicts, or sell tribal land without consent whenever it feels like it.
there's also lone wolf v. hitchcock; used last year in castro-huerta where the supreme court ruled that states can prosecute crimes by non-indigenous against indigenous on reservations -- overriding tribal jurisdiction. not to mention that the major crimes act of 1885 stripped tribes of prosecuting felonies like murder. there's also public law 280 imposed state jurisdiction on reservations in six states without a single tribal vote.
so no, tribal legal systems aren't "not easily infringed on." they exist at congress's pleasure. the only difference between the us and china here is that the us has better pr.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 90d
Anything's possible when you make shit up
cmbabul@slrpnk.net · -11 pts · 90d
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 8 pts · 90d
What the fuck are you talking about?
ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 90d
https://cwis.org/2021/07/does-china-have-indigenous-peoples/
eldavi@lemmy.ml · 27 pts · 90d
the anglosphere buried children and genocided the rest of their familes while china built schools -- quit swallowing american propaganda.
american, canadian and australian policies were genocidal. they built residential schools that forcibly removed indigenous children; banned their languages; and caused thousands of deaths. over 1,800 unmarked graves were recently discovered in canada alone and all three countries had a policy of "kill the indian, save the man." canada’s indian act stripped sovereignty, banned ceremonies, and enabled forced sterilizations into the 1970s.
china has nothing close to this. yes, it promotes mandarin in education, but minority languages (tibetan, uyghur, mongolian) are still taught, used and -- most importantly-- not banned. ethnic autonomous regions cover over 60% of china’s territory yet no mass graves; no stolen children; no forced sterilization like in the united states, canada, australia, greenland or even isreal.
ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world · -13 pts · 90d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China
I'm not defending America. But you are defending China and you shouldn't.
davel@lemmy.ml · 21 pts · 90d
NATOPedia isn’t as neutral or objective as people think.
Meet Wikipedia’s Ayn Rand-loving founder and Wikimedia Foundation’s regime-change operative CEO
Previously:
Previously:
ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 90d
I love how you criticize my sources and then post Global Times - literal Chinese state propaganda - to prove your point. What a joke.
Chinas own demographic data proves the genocide.
https://www.fairobserver.com/world-news/china-news/the-truth-about-uighurs-has-china-really-committed-genocide/
The evidence for the uighur genocide is irrefutable.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/5/14/the-faux-anti-imperialism-of-denying-anti-uighur
https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/uyghurs-credible-case-china-carrying-out-genocide
I repeat again, I am not defending America or the West. But any claim that China is somehow better is simply a lie. This has nothing to do with capitalism/communism and everything to do with the oppression of the minority by the majority.
eldavi@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 90d
not even elementary school children are allowed to cite wikipedia anymore because it so biased and wrong. lol
and speaking of bias: nearly half the citations in the references are funded by the us government -- both directly and indirectly. go read to what happened when trump gutted most of usaid and you’ll see how deep the american propaganda factory goes.
or better yet, do yourself a favor -- read anything from the american freedom of information act. the american gov't has effectively been forced to admit it fabricates propaganda and this fact has been public record since the 1970s, americans still believe the propaganda anyways.
ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 90d
I post Wikipedia because such idiocy deserves only the minimum effort to refute.
Vex_Detrause@lemmy.ca · -8 pts · 89d
This is 2026 article from Human Rights Watch. I feel like the OP is one of the slight propaganda for better view of China.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 89d
How many times is Zenz used as a source, directly or indirectly, in that article?
eldavi@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 89d
i'll restate my comment using a copy/paste of different comment:
the freedom of information act provides a quick & easy litmus test for things like this – and human rights watch fails it.
since 1979, the freedom of information act has been proving that the western characterization of north korea as a hermit kingdom with despotic rulers was american manufactured propaganda – and almost 50 years later, human rights watch still believes the propaganda somehow.
this isn’t some random conspiracy theory – this is the american 👏 fucking 👏 government 👏 itself effectively admitting it to the public and in writing almost a half century ago that they manufactured this propaganda, but human rights watch still believes in this propaganda anyways so there’s no reason to listen to what they have to say about china.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 16 pts · 90d
The vast majority of muslim nations on earth sent delegates to investigate in person and declared the accusations baseless
ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 89d
A bunch of nations economically dependant on China were given a tour of what Being wanted them to see and spoon fed propaganda. Your continued efforts to whitewash Chinese genocide are abhorrent.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 89d
Always falling back on quoting the liberal Holy Scripture.
ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 89d
Riiiiiight. I suppose next you're going to tell me Taiwan is part of China.
Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -6 pts · 90d
Gotta love talking with China MAGA. Always a wall of text explaining how awful america is, but never any acceptance that china has committed any wrongdoing. Screaming "western propaganda", while spewing the most obvious and blatant Chinese propaganda imaginable.
davel@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 90d
Previously:
Silliari@quokk.au · 22 pts · 90d
“China voted in favor of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples” and your beloved daddy america voted against it, the declaration was being voted on in 2007 when the 5 minority autonomous regions were established between 1947 -1965, it wasn’t until 1975 with the “Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act” did the native americans get autonomy
ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world · -9 pts · 90d
Why not finish the paragraph?
KimBongUn420@lemmy.ml · 9 pts · 90d
omgboom@lemmy.world · -16 pts · 89d
Tankies: genocide is good actually but only when we do it
eldavi@lemmy.ml · 18 pts · 89d
You're not witty, you're just a coward with a keyboard -- engage honestly or get lost.
omgboom@lemmy.world · -15 pts · 89d
Tankies while engaging in bad faith: How dare you engage in bad faith.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 15 pts · 89d
The state department thanks you for your service
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 13 pts · 89d
Go back to reddit
btsax@reddthat.com · -4 pts · 88d
How many times per day do you leave this comment
chloroken@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 89d
Fascists on their way to the firing squad: rhjskfbsjajsvdhdhjsjsks
(we won't be able to hear them because we stuffed a sock in their mouth)
Riverside@reddthat.com · 14 pts · 89d
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 89d
The vast majority of muslim nations on earth got together to send delegates to investigate in person, they declared the accusations baseless.
___calmblue75@lemmy.ml · 5 pts · 88d
Do you read?
regdog@lemmy.world · -24 pts · 90d
Two things can be bad
KimBongUn420@lemmy.ml · 32 pts · 90d
regdog@lemmy.world · -24 pts · 90d
What are you even defending here?
KimBongUn420@lemmy.ml · 27 pts · 90d
What do you think you're opining here about?
regdog@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 90d
False balance. And you?
davel@lemmy.ml · 28 pts · 90d
waow is that true
two things
like at the same time
🤯
_lunar@lemmy.ml · 28 pts · 90d
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 25 pts · 90d
They can, and they're both the US
davel@lemmy.ml · 23 pts · 90d
This liberal thought-terminating cliché should be added to the slur filter.
calmblue75@lemmy.ml · 20 pts · 90d
Can't you people be a bit more creative? I've seen this same retort word to word multiple times in multiple posts.
regdog@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 90d
Sorry. I'll try to be more creative with my criticism.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml · 17 pts · 89d
They can, but aren't
ZeroHora@lemmy.ml · 14 pts · 89d
I know that people love to use this phrase but like we only have one bad thing here wtf????
Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -8 pts · 90d
How dare you say something that implies that China is anything other than a perfect utopia!
Remember, bans and downvotes from .ml mean that you're not delusional.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml · 12 pts · 90d