You can actually skip step 1 if you want. That's what they did with toys'r'us. Those actions have long since convinced me anything financial is just a game played by the very rich.
Yeah, and in our current world, there are a lot of specific loopholes that are made to be exploited. It's almost like the people 'winning' the game have written the rules of the game...
Set up a shell company. Set up a trust somewhere with no capital gain tax. Shift ownership of the shell to the trust. As the shell, come to an agreement in principal with the bank to buy it. Use this as colateral to raise a loan from the bank for the purchase amount. Transfer the debt to the bank as part of the merger with the shell company. The bank now basically owes itself to itself. Sell the combined company from the trust, thus avoiding capital gain tax.
Isn't this the exact plan for all private equity acquisitions. The most recent one coming to mind was the fabric store Joann's. PE came in bought the company, saddled it with their debt used to buy it, strip mined it, and then declared bankruptcy.
Let's say I start out owning a bank with ten billion in assets, and the bank's value comes entirely from its assets so it's worth ten billion.
The bank loans its ten billion to you, and you pay me those ten billion for the bank. Now I have ten billion in cash instead of a bank that was worth ten billion, and you have a bank worth ten billion to which you owe ten billion. No one's net worth has changed.
You default on your loan to your own bank. Now the bank is worthless (its worth came entirely from the loan) and you have no debt, so your net worth still hasn't changed. Effectively nothing has happened.
A bank that's subject to government regulation isn't going to do that unless "you" have billions in assets to justify that kind of sale.
and you pay me those ten billion for the bank
And surely you report that sale on your taxes and pay the relevant taxes, right?
No one's net worth has changed.
Except you, once you've paid your taxes.
You default on your loan to your own bank.
Ok, so "you" missed the payment. Now what? You think "you" can walk away cleanly? Declaring bankruptcy to wipe your debt is only something that's available if the government provides that kind of mechanism, and generally that's only available to people who have otherwise followed all the rules, which wouldn't include buying a ten billion dollar bank when they had no assets.
The only way this scenario works is if you ignore all the laws. But, if you're ignoring the laws, why not just make it simpler and simply steal the bank's assets?
This is unironically what people do. They buy businesses, sell all the assets, pay themselves exorbitant bonuses for having a profitable quarter from selling all the assets and then sell the business. After someone buys it it’s like a 60% bankruptcy rate post sale.
And then other businesses that have "too good" numbers buy those failing businesses and let them go bankrupt to use as larger write-offs and get tax rebates.
47 Comments
Mac@mander.xyz · 114 pts · 76d
Spend lots
Go into debt
Buy successful company
Load it with your debt
File (it) for bankruptcy
Make out like a bandit
Rinse, repeat
Flower@sh.itjust.works · 39 pts · 76d
TL;DR: private equity
NannerBanner@literature.cafe · 25 pts · 76d
You can actually skip step 1 if you want. That's what they did with toys'r'us. Those actions have long since convinced me anything financial is just a game played by the very rich.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 76d
Games have rules.
architectonas@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 76d
Winning is easier by not sticking to them
NannerBanner@literature.cafe · 4 pts · 75d
Yeah, and in our current world, there are a lot of specific loopholes that are made to be exploited. It's almost like the people 'winning' the game have written the rules of the game...
IAmYouButYouDontKnowYet@reddthat.com · 107 pts · 76d
It's this what America is trying to do?
areakode@riskeratspizza.com · 48 pts · 76d
Buy up everything and then default on our loans? Yup. If they aren't trying, their incompetence is actually pretty impressive.
IAmYouButYouDontKnowYet@reddthat.com · 12 pts · 76d
We are trying to outsource our debt to china.
Its all games. I don't thing people that care are ready for how fucked up humanity is going to get. But worse than that, I don't think many care.
"They" have humanity by the balls.
And damn... Like I said... I don't think people understand... All these people we called terrorists might have been trying to save us.
ThunderQueen@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 76d
BarbecueCowboy@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 76d
Man, no trying, it's past and present tense now, doing and successfully did.
lath@piefed.social · 44 pts · 76d
Loan was not approved. What now?
notabot@piefed.social · 54 pts · 76d
Set up a shell company. Set up a trust somewhere with no capital gain tax. Shift ownership of the shell to the trust. As the shell, come to an agreement in principal with the bank to buy it. Use this as colateral to raise a loan from the bank for the purchase amount. Transfer the debt to the bank as part of the merger with the shell company. The bank now basically owes itself to itself. Sell the combined company from the trust, thus avoiding capital gain tax.
merc@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 76d
I assume this would go as well as Gamestop trying to buy Ebay.
pez@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 76d
That was no typo. Gonna use that principal like a tauntaun.
starchylemming@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 76d
take out a smaller loan to bribe the person who appeoves the loans
gigastasio@sh.itjust.works · 15 pts · 76d
Brute force loan application: Keep trying random identities until one goes through.
wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 76d
pulls out minigun from payday 2
loan approved
😎
Zwiebel@feddit.org · 1 pts · 75d
Employee is a nerd who knows you don't have the power cable plugged in
Loan declined
Rothe@piefed.social · 5 pts · 76d
Be a billionaire of course. This only works if you are rich.
vane@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 75d
Please dad. It's for good cause.
ashenone@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 76d
Set the bank on fire and try the next one
Seaguy05@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 75d
Isn't this the exact plan for all private equity acquisitions. The most recent one coming to mind was the fabric store Joann's. PE came in bought the company, saddled it with their debt used to buy it, strip mined it, and then declared bankruptcy.
ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works · 18 pts · 76d
It's not actually ridiculous in principle.
Let's say I start out owning a bank with ten billion in assets, and the bank's value comes entirely from its assets so it's worth ten billion.
The bank loans its ten billion to you, and you pay me those ten billion for the bank. Now I have ten billion in cash instead of a bank that was worth ten billion, and you have a bank worth ten billion to which you owe ten billion. No one's net worth has changed.
You default on your loan to your own bank. Now the bank is worthless (its worth came entirely from the loan) and you have no debt, so your net worth still hasn't changed. Effectively nothing has happened.
mech@feddit.org · 32 pts · 76d
But now you can lobby the government to bail out your bank using tax money.
merc@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 76d
A bank that's subject to government regulation isn't going to do that unless "you" have billions in assets to justify that kind of sale.
And surely you report that sale on your taxes and pay the relevant taxes, right?
Except you, once you've paid your taxes.
Ok, so "you" missed the payment. Now what? You think "you" can walk away cleanly? Declaring bankruptcy to wipe your debt is only something that's available if the government provides that kind of mechanism, and generally that's only available to people who have otherwise followed all the rules, which wouldn't include buying a ten billion dollar bank when they had no assets.
The only way this scenario works is if you ignore all the laws. But, if you're ignoring the laws, why not just make it simpler and simply steal the bank's assets?
davidagain@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 76d
Sweet of you to think that people this rich typically pay their taxes.
ptu@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 76d
Geesh, your point made me think that it wasn’t an actual career path
gegil@sopuli.xyz · 3 pts · 76d
Is capitalism real?!?!n1?
zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 76d
Except that there is also value from other clients and from the brand, which is then helping you to actually earn money
marcos@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 76d
A lot of people lost a lot of their money and got their lives destroyed. Also, the previous owners liquidated their shares.
But yeah, you haven't got any richer.
stickyprimer@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 76d
Right, which is why it’s not some hero-swaggers-triumphantly maneuver. That’s the ridiculous part.
Etterra@discuss.online · 16 pts · 76d
Good luck with that 1st part.
strop@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 76d
We found the jealous one 🙄
Matty_r@programming.dev · 13 pts · 76d
"But its for AI"
Agent641@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 75d
Here's 20, keep the change!
stickyprimer@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 76d
But the bank is worth $10 billion less.
Pacattack57@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 75d
This is unironically what people do. They buy businesses, sell all the assets, pay themselves exorbitant bonuses for having a profitable quarter from selling all the assets and then sell the business. After someone buys it it’s like a 60% bankruptcy rate post sale.
TomasEkeli@programming.dev · 4 pts · 75d
And then other businesses that have "too good" numbers buy those failing businesses and let them go bankrupt to use as larger write-offs and get tax rebates.
callyral@pawb.social · 9 pts · 76d
step 1: buy a money factory
step 2: profit
webghost0101@sopuli.xyz · 6 pts · 76d
aquire money trough established capitalist social network
Buy a successful small businesses with employees included.
Run it trough the ground to extract all profit and value of to recover the money used to buy it
You barely made money on this but you are “famous company” and they where just an obstacle for your competing products who are making more now.
Repeat
OttoVonNoob@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 76d
Ahem, you skipped a few steps but ya your close to it. https://youtu.be/x9P-pYGu_ws
FoxtrotDeltaTango@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 76d
Noncredible economics
superweeniehutjrs@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 76d
I feel like the closest real thing is a leveraged buyout
Chee_Koala@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 76d
PattyMcB@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 76d
Step 5: Profit
CaptainBasculin@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 75d
Disco Elysium situation summarised in a meme
ivanafterall@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 75d
Load all the computers onto my truck. I'm starting a new ebay store.