It’s because most anvils were tuned to G. It was considered the original root scale step because anvils often worked best when tuned to G. But back in those days, it was called Sol (Solfège.) In french, Sol means ground, which is at the bottom. Ergo, every hammer driven by the smith was really just a sort of mating call that sent all the bottoms running to the smith’s doorstep. This is where the expression “she built like an anvil” comes from
Social darwinism isn't that, although it's big with people of Netherlandian extraction, Calvinists.
Social darwinism is the belief that everything is preordained, and if you are rich, god favors you, if poor, god hates you. It would be irresponsible to help the poor because god wants them to suffer, and so forth. Like the Prosperity Doctrine.
Also, a bunch of Wrights too: Cartwright, Wainwright, Shipwright, Wheelright, etc.
Then there's just plain occupational names: Miller, Farmer, Thatcher, and so on.
Had this tradition continued, the information age would have given us: Chipwright, Cloudwright, Videosmith, Hacksmith, Coder, Tester, Gamer, Printer, and probably a ton more.
I always found it fun to learn about these old timey professions that (basically) no longer exist, but still exist as names, like:
Cooper: a craftsman who makes barrels, casks, etc.,
Hooper: an assistant to the cooper. Someone who put the hoops (bands of metal or wood) around the barrels. This one is especially good because coopers took over the job of putting the bands on, so the job died off while "cooper" still existed as a job, yet there are still people with that name
Fuller / Walker: a person who softens and cleans wool, sometimes by walking on it, sometimes using the hands
Clark: this one still exists, but is spelled and pronounced differently as "clerk".
Turner: someone who operated a lathe. Basically a specialized machinist.
Marshall: this is a fun one. Originally it had to do with horses, it was "mareshal", but then somehow evolved to be a high officer of the court, unrelated to "martial" which sounds the same but comes from "Mars" the god of war.
Parker: The job exists now, but is more "park ranger" or just "ranger"
Baxter: Baker -- but the feminine form of the word. Similarly "Webster" is the female form of "Weber" (Weaver), Brewster is the female version of Brewer, Spinster is the female form of Spinner, etc.
"Court" I think, in this sense, was the king's court, not a judicial court. But, I think you're onto something about how it started as someone who took care of horses then probably evolved to being in charge of horses or something, to then being the official with the big job related to horses. I guess it's a bit like how "secretary" can be either a person making near minimum wage who does office work, or it can be the most powerful person in the cabinet who deals with X.
Smiths and millers were common enough professions that basically every village had one but rare enough to be useful as a description. John the farmer would have been way too vague, leading to names that come from physical appearance, place of origin or relatives‘ given names.
Smiths were generally wealthier so they had a better diet and what amounted to medical care, and they were rarely put in combat because they were needed to make weapons. So more of them survived.
People in cthe middle ages in ciities were wealthier and healthier, and free. People in the country were slaves or tools of the local lords. City air makes you free they would say, cities were filled with free people, and run by guilds generally, smiths chief amongst them. Other cities were more merchant ruled chiefly. The nobility forever looked down on commerce, everything except agriculture and war generally.
You couldn't just move into a city, you needed an in, like getting accepted as an apprentice in a guild.
I reckon the high prevalance of the Smith surname isn't really down to a highly smith-based economy, but because it was a quite respectable profession for both social classes - high paid, possibly self employed, talented/educated - but also useful strong and dependable.
So if you have to choose between different surnames you might therefore go:
"ah my parent was a smith so i can be a smith too"
"my parent chose to use their smith parent's surname so i will choose it too because it gets respect"
Or, maybe smiths always needed a lot of helpers and instead of taking the surname "Prentice/Prentiss" they would just go with Smith, as it's neater.
Maybe those with some experience working a forge or shaping metal had more liberty to move to different towns for work; In a new town, locals who'd lived there their whole life wouldn't need an identifying surname (assuming this is pre-surname consolidation in Britain) but the Smiths would have that as a tradename, thus advertising their services.
Presumably also, every town needed at least one local tinkerer or metalworker - there are/were like 10,000s of distinct villages all over England. So if we presume that tradespeople always have surnames of their trade and non-tradespeople (like farm labourers) don't usually feel a need to, The Smiths already have a greater share of the surnamed population in the census.
Lastly, I'm guessing the smiths had a somewhat better quality of life in relation to disease and poverty. Possibly the hot forges kill off harmful bacteria and they had "middle class" income and no vulnerability to random agriculture failure, like farmers did.
One reason why I don't think it's because "the king ordered loads and loads of people to become smiths during one particular war and we were left with an overabundance of Smiths" is because The high prevelance of the "Smith" surname is also observed in Germany, Spain, Poland and elsewhere. As Schmidt, Herrero and Kowalski, respectively. The more you know!
“Son, you come from a long line of Dontanswers. Now do your ancestors an honorable turn and impose the most annoying phone conversation in history on this near-stranger.”
I have a friend whose surname is Fletcher. I learned recently that's just an arrow maker. That said I've seen in other regions people are named for what time and location they are born and by gender.
Is it Swinyard, Swinerd, Hogg, Hogge, Seward, Sweatman, Schweinhardt, Schweiger, Schweinsteige, Dausch, Purcell, or MacUalraig? Apparently there's a lot of surnames for a pig farmer.
Lol true, I knew a guy named Outlaw and unfortunately he looked exactly how you think he would look. Also a guy named reefer and he also looked exactly how you would think.
I do this, too, and my best friend is in my phone by just his last name (the name he goes by), so when I added his wife to my phone when they got married, I put her in as "Name Hislastname," in that same way of association, like you would add someone as "bill plumber," or whatever. And I realized, wait, is this how married couples sharing a name started? Lol
Naaktgeboren comes from the German "nachgeboren", meaning "born after the father died". Which is the same origin as Posthumus, except that came via latin.
Japanese is more like 'bob from the long field', 'steve from the middle of the village', etc. and are often place references (certain classes had more rights before people had the right to surnames, so a bit different that far back).
There are a lot of surnames like that in English. Westfield, Norwood, Whitmore, Blackwell, etc.
In Danish you get some very precise locations of farms relative to villages and see names like Nordestgaard (North East Farm), Højgaard (high farm, i.e., on a hill), Bjerregaard (mountain farm)
Yep, very true. I couldn't think of any examples when writing, but I often mention that when people talk about how cool Japanese names are "because they have (characters that have) meaning". We have those in English, too!
I mean, I had to entertain them while their dad got my weed and then I saw a brand new SUV in the driveway after a year or two so I think they’re good.
97 Comments
aeronmelon@lemmy.world · 88 pts · 45d
The past had a LOT of smiths.
The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world · 69 pts · 45d
Or maybe it was the sexiest profession back then.
xkbx@startrek.website · 57 pts · 45d
It’s because most anvils were tuned to G. It was considered the original root scale step because anvils often worked best when tuned to G. But back in those days, it was called Sol (Solfège.) In french, Sol means ground, which is at the bottom. Ergo, every hammer driven by the smith was really just a sort of mating call that sent all the bottoms running to the smith’s doorstep. This is where the expression “she built like an anvil” comes from
Nouvellalia@lemmy.world · 76 pts · 45d
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 43d
Best thread this month
Lemming6969@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 45d
So Mason = Built like a brick shithouse
blazeknave@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 45d
Read above you thinking... You mean she's a brick.. house?
Pelicanen@fedia.io · 3 pts · 45d
She's mighty, mighty, just letting it all hang out.
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 45d
reads like a tr*mp xeet lol
tdawg@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 45d
Only the sexy professions reproduced
Infinite@lemmy.zip · 6 pts · 45d
Smiths got all the tang.
Kellenved@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 45d
Seems many did not, but I did, see what you did there
homes@piefed.world · 3 pts · 45d
Welcome to social Darwinism
teyrnon@sh.itjust.works · 8 pts · 45d
Social darwinism isn't that, although it's big with people of Netherlandian extraction, Calvinists.
Social darwinism is the belief that everything is preordained, and if you are rich, god favors you, if poor, god hates you. It would be irresponsible to help the poor because god wants them to suffer, and so forth. Like the Prosperity Doctrine.
homes@piefed.world · 3 pts · 45d
I was kidding
tdawg@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 45d
Didn't someone tell you it's illegal to make jokes on Lemmy
Vlhvhkctjxrhxv@ani.social · 27 pts · 45d
Metalsmith, Blacksmith, Gunsmith, Goldsmith, Silversmith, Locksmith, Coppersmith, Tinsmith, Wordsmith, Songsmith
aeronmelon@lemmy.world · 16 pts · 45d
“Hey, kids! It’s time for the PokeRap!”
AzuranAurora@piefed.ca · 5 pts · 45d
Gonna, gonna, gonna forge 'em all. Gonna forge 'em all, Smithemon!
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 45d
Poopsmith
dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 45d
Also, a bunch of Wrights too: Cartwright, Wainwright, Shipwright, Wheelright, etc.
Then there's just plain occupational names: Miller, Farmer, Thatcher, and so on.
Had this tradition continued, the information age would have given us: Chipwright, Cloudwright, Videosmith, Hacksmith, Coder, Tester, Gamer, Printer, and probably a ton more.
merc@sh.itjust.works · 9 pts · 45d
I always found it fun to learn about these old timey professions that (basically) no longer exist, but still exist as names, like:
FavouriteShapes@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 43d
Maybe "Marshalls" working for courts would set out on horses to round up runaways and bring them before the court.
merc@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 43d
"Court" I think, in this sense, was the king's court, not a judicial court. But, I think you're onto something about how it started as someone who took care of horses then probably evolved to being in charge of horses or something, to then being the official with the big job related to horses. I guess it's a bit like how "secretary" can be either a person making near minimum wage who does office work, or it can be the most powerful person in the cabinet who deals with X.
okwhateverdude@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 45d
Man, sign me the fuck up for Hacksmith or Codewright. I'm all for nominative determinism like this
Akasazh@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 45d
Whitesmith is also used
hakunawazo@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 43d
...we didn't start the fire ♫♫
dfyx@lemmy.helios42.de · 19 pts · 45d
Smiths and millers were common enough professions that basically every village had one but rare enough to be useful as a description. John the farmer would have been way too vague, leading to names that come from physical appearance, place of origin or relatives‘ given names.
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 45d
"De boer", or "the farmer" is the 10th most common surname in the Netherlands. Top three are "The young", "son of Jan" and "The Frisian".
cornshark@lemmy.world · 8 pts · 45d
Who's Jan
thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 45d
ur mom
(???)
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 45d
Smiths were generally wealthier so they had a better diet and what amounted to medical care, and they were rarely put in combat because they were needed to make weapons. So more of them survived.
schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works · 16 pts · 45d
That's how it works for my dwarves, too.
Nouvellalia@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 45d
teyrnon@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 45d
People in cthe middle ages in ciities were wealthier and healthier, and free. People in the country were slaves or tools of the local lords. City air makes you free they would say, cities were filled with free people, and run by guilds generally, smiths chief amongst them. Other cities were more merchant ruled chiefly. The nobility forever looked down on commerce, everything except agriculture and war generally.
You couldn't just move into a city, you needed an in, like getting accepted as an apprentice in a guild.
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 45d
Totally true, and there were also smiths scattered around rural areas in small towns like mechanics today.
StillAlive@piefed.world · 9 pts · 45d
Smith be smithing tho
FavouriteShapes@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 43d
I reckon the high prevalance of the Smith surname isn't really down to a highly smith-based economy, but because it was a quite respectable profession for both social classes - high paid, possibly self employed, talented/educated - but also useful strong and dependable. So if you have to choose between different surnames you might therefore go:
Or, maybe smiths always needed a lot of helpers and instead of taking the surname "Prentice/Prentiss" they would just go with Smith, as it's neater.
Maybe those with some experience working a forge or shaping metal had more liberty to move to different towns for work; In a new town, locals who'd lived there their whole life wouldn't need an identifying surname (assuming this is pre-surname consolidation in Britain) but the Smiths would have that as a tradename, thus advertising their services.
Presumably also, every town needed at least one local tinkerer or metalworker - there are/were like 10,000s of distinct villages all over England. So if we presume that tradespeople always have surnames of their trade and non-tradespeople (like farm labourers) don't usually feel a need to, The Smiths already have a greater share of the surnamed population in the census.
Lastly, I'm guessing the smiths had a somewhat better quality of life in relation to disease and poverty. Possibly the hot forges kill off harmful bacteria and they had "middle class" income and no vulnerability to random agriculture failure, like farmers did.
One reason why I don't think it's because "the king ordered loads and loads of people to become smiths during one particular war and we were left with an overabundance of Smiths" is because The high prevelance of the "Smith" surname is also observed in Germany, Spain, Poland and elsewhere. As Schmidt, Herrero and Kowalski, respectively. The more you know!
dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net · 57 pts · 45d
“Son, you come from a long line of Dontanswers. Now do your ancestors an honorable turn and impose the most annoying phone conversation in history on this near-stranger.”
Zephyr@sh.itjust.works · 34 pts · 45d
You forgot to add the location. John Philadelphia Carpenter.
Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 45d
Joseph Nazareth Carpenter
Zephyr@sh.itjust.works · 7 pts · 45d
I have a friend whose surname is Fletcher. I learned recently that's just an arrow maker. That said I've seen in other regions people are named for what time and location they are born and by gender.
Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 45d
Apparently my ancestors raised pigs, yay
Zephyr@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 45d
Is it Swinyard, Swinerd, Hogg, Hogge, Seward, Sweatman, Schweinhardt, Schweiger, Schweinsteige, Dausch, Purcell, or MacUalraig? Apparently there's a lot of surnames for a pig farmer.
Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 45d
A lot including at least one more. And you know I'm not gonna tell, even if you guess it. But you haven't even used the same first letter yet.
prettybunnys@piefed.social · 2 pts · 43d
It’s Pigfucker, isn’t it?
Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 43d
Geeeez, one fucking pig......!
And he was amazing
But also delicious
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 2 pts · 43d
At least it's not "Felcher"
Zephyr@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 42d
Lol true, I knew a guy named Outlaw and unfortunately he looked exactly how you think he would look. Also a guy named reefer and he also looked exactly how you would think.
Janx@piefed.social · 2 pts · 44d
"Just" an arrow maker!? Let's see you make some quality remote stabby-sticks...
Zephyr@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 44d
Bluetooth stabbers
merc@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 45d
Hence names like Lee, Stone, Woods, Green, Moore...
dharmacurious@slrpnk.net · 27 pts · 45d
I do this, too, and my best friend is in my phone by just his last name (the name he goes by), so when I added his wife to my phone when they got married, I put her in as "Name Hislastname," in that same way of association, like you would add someone as "bill plumber," or whatever. And I realized, wait, is this how married couples sharing a name started? Lol
captainlezbian@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 45d
In one of the British cultures the head of a family/clan went by just the last name, so yeah maybe
Godric@lemmy.world · 25 pts · 45d
Lots of Dutch last names are ridiculous, allegedly in defiance of foreign empires forcing the people to adopt them for registration purposes.
Knuschberkeks@leminal.space · 15 pts · 45d
according to Wikipedia it's a myth
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=Dutch+name%23Surnames&wprov=acrw1_0
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 45d
Such as?
Jarifax@feddit.nl · 8 pts · 45d
One example is; Naaktgeboren, meaning "born naked"
Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 45d
Naaktgeboren comes from the German "nachgeboren", meaning "born after the father died". Which is the same origin as Posthumus, except that came via latin.
teyrnon@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 45d
How so? They have been free for some time, 4 centuries I think.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 45d
Egonallanon@feddit.uk · 23 pts · 45d
Eddie cocaine, mike shit weed.
The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world · 23 pts · 45d
Ah, you must be talking about Eddie White and Mike Greene.
teyrnon@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 45d
Mike Shitfacer handles the booze.
farmgineer@nord.pub · 21 pts · 45d
Japanese is more like 'bob from the long field', 'steve from the middle of the village', etc. and are often place references (certain classes had more rights before people had the right to surnames, so a bit different that far back).
paranoia@feddit.dk · 8 pts · 44d
There are a lot of surnames like that in English. Westfield, Norwood, Whitmore, Blackwell, etc.
In Danish you get some very precise locations of farms relative to villages and see names like Nordestgaard (North East Farm), Højgaard (high farm, i.e., on a hill), Bjerregaard (mountain farm)
farmgineer@nord.pub · 4 pts · 44d
Yep, very true. I couldn't think of any examples when writing, but I often mention that when people talk about how cool Japanese names are "because they have (characters that have) meaning". We have those in English, too!
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 45d
Before weed was legal my dealer’s name was John Budd.
Rooster326@programming.dev · 4 pts · 45d
What was it after weed became legal?
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 45d
It’s still that but I stopped calling him.
nymnympseudonym@piefed.social · 5 pts · 45d
What have we done to the children and families of our former dealers? They are destitute now
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 45d
I mean, I had to entertain them while their dad got my weed and then I saw a brand new SUV in the driveway after a year or two so I think they’re good.
pruwybn@discuss.tchncs.de · 4 pts · 45d
It still is, but it used to be, too.
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 45d
Forever may John Budd live in my phone.
His first name isn’t even John.
guyoverthere123@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 16 pts · 45d
Kenny can fuck off and get a job.
Landlord isn't a job.
teyrnon@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 45d
Mr. Burns was not an accident on the simpsons.
schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works · 11 pts · 45d
Matamoros is the one I don't like thinking about.
Saapas@piefed.zip · 11 pts · 45d
Metal as fuck
schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 45d
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space · 9 pts · 45d
And then there’s the 13th-century simpleton John Fuckbythenavel
tdawg@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 45d
I went to a medical museum once and a skull had the COD listed as "idiot" for one of the older skulls on display
foggianism@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 45d
Don't know, Electrić sounds kinda Balkan to me.
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 45d
Don't be so diacritical.
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 45d
I'm a school bus driver. Our director of transportation is in my phone as "Patti Busboss". I genuinely have no idea what her real last name is.
Gerudo@lemmy.zip · 9 pts · 45d
Tons of John Work in mine. Definitely not as cool as John Wick.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 45d
Thanks for reminding me that I saw someone named John Wack in a multiplayer lobby recently.
LillyPip@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 45d
guyoverthere123@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 45d
What about Stacy's mom?
gressen@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 45d
It works the same way in all older languages.
farmgineer@nord.pub · 2 pts · 45d
It does not. It works that way in a number of languages, particularly western ones, but is not universal by any means.
crazycraw@crazypeople.online · 6 pts · 45d
everyone welcome Chad Shitbag McFuckFace to the chat
PacketPilgrim@thelemmy.club · 4 pts · 45d
It just works. I have plumber, electrician, roofman, and my fav the bug guy.
HollieK72@mastodonapp.uk · 4 pts · 45d
@The_Picard_Maneuver Kenny Baker, Mike Butcher, Pete the Lunatic, etc.
hark@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 45d
Sonic the Hedgehog
Today@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 45d
I have Jose Fence, Charlie AC, Pool Girl Stephanie, and Carlos Plomero.
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 45d
What's a larson though?
sudo@lemmy.today · 5 pts · 45d
The son of Lars (Lawrence)
farmgineer@nord.pub · 2 pts · 45d
look into patronymic/matronymic naming :)
chillpanzee@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 45d
Like Margaret Thatcher.