Real talk (the video is in my to-watch queue): I am completely convinced by anarchism tenets, but the apparent lack of a path towards total liberation kinda frightens me. Where can I lear more about said strategy ? (Not about anarchism in general)
Concrete strategies are pervertable. Values are less so. If you know what you're aiming for, you should be able to evaluate any strategies you encounter to see if they align. It's also not possible to build one strategy for everyone. How could you make it right for all communities? How could you force everyone to follow it? You'd need a state...
Reading more about anarchism in general should expose you to concrete examples of what has been tried, how it worked, and how it was destroyed. I'd start with Orwell in Spain and the Anarcho-Syndicalysts.
Based on my understanding, the method by which we get from the world today to the an anarchist society is often conflated with the social revolution of socialism. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I doubt it. What I do know, is that anarchism isn't just a theory - it's a practice. We are meant to live it, not just talk about it.
Start with anarchism as a spice. Any time you're in a position to influence the governance of something, a project, club, society or council, insist on making sure that all use of authority is justified.
Get involved in everything you can, be the person that brings the anarchist perspective. You don't need to call yourself an anarchist and proclaim your actions for the cause. This isn't a crusade, you're not killing in the name of. It's about making sure that use of authority is justified. Offer the anarchist options, show others how to live a different way.
Finally, always be aware someone will recognize what you are and what you're about. Anarchism is about making power justify itself, and if it can't, abolishing that power. This means that those that seek power will always notice you're the problem to them acquiring more power. They will seek to eliminate or neuter your ability to interfere.
If you're making small waves in a small community, the response will likely be similarly small. If you've succeeded in making a whole region change to a different way of life, maybe it's a national guard with guns that comes knocking. Both can be devastating.
If that sounds like a lot of effort, it is. That's why the world hasn't switched overnight. I would say however, that it's no more effort than is required anyway. Every strategy picked must be checked for suitability - the ends cannot justify the means.
I know all this and it wasn't my question. It's good to have values at your core, do what you can around you etc... but then building a nice community with people around can be enough. And I completely agree with that, you cannot change the world on your own. What I'm interested in is, how do you keep the flow going ? What makes it so that the end, is liberation of everyone and not just liberation of your community/region ? How not to conflate the end and the means ?
I feel like aiming for the ultimate liberation of absolutely everyone as your goal is sort of missing the point a bit. To force everyone to be free is an oxymoron, and a path to a kind of totalitarianism.
If you want to help more people, then implementing anarchist values around you is a great place to be! Sharing those values, and educating other people with useful tools can help them help the people around them too.
Yes, I do want everyone to be liberated. Crucially I never said that I, or an organization, should liberate everyone, because I don't believe in this.
Yes, I know how it works, start around you etc... that's not what I'm curious about. That doesn't answer my question. How to make sure that, collectively, we don't stop in the middle ?
I feel like responding to BadEmpanada is just a trap and anyone who doesn't know it by now is just feeding into it. He's just going to keep trying to sow and reap controversy.
It's not even that, @souvenir@lemmy.dbzer0.com is completely aware fascists are turning on their führers as we type, yet one of us stomps on the powerless and the other empowers.
Which coin of in-fighting does souvenir want to face?
Deathcamps are still up.
I think you'll find they form a circle, hold the man to their right's penis, release their alpha male energy into the middle of the circle, and summon Mecha-Hitler. That's what the black sun/ sun wheel swastika symbol represents.
The left is a broad collection of semi-related ideologies. I'm certainly not opposed to cooperating when we have a common goal but our politics are simply too different to form a single unified party or anything like that.
If you mean "materialism" as defined by Marx, then yes that is an "absolute brain dump deattached from reality" as several modern anarchists and anthropologists have pointed out with ample of evidence.
Curious to see what this evidence is then, since every time this kind of a claim gets dropped there's 0 elaboration or if there is elaboration, it's always some metaphysics brimstone
Yeah you're right, I should have picked a sports team and brainlessly attacked the other in this youtube beef where each side is yelling "noo actually my ideology is better than yours!"
33 Comments
A404@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 20 pts · 19d
This is gonna ruffle some feathers
db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 20 pts · 19d
They're already here being salty
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social · 12 pts · 19d
Crazy that merging everything within the state so nothing can be against the state would do that huh
kibblebits@quokk.au · 10 pts · 19d
The ML cry under their pillows at night so the cameras don’t see them.
rako@tarte.nuage-libre.fr · 7 pts · 19d
Real talk (the video is in my to-watch queue): I am completely convinced by anarchism tenets, but the apparent lack of a path towards total liberation kinda frightens me. Where can I lear more about said strategy ? (Not about anarchism in general)
med@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 18d
Concrete strategies are pervertable. Values are less so. If you know what you're aiming for, you should be able to evaluate any strategies you encounter to see if they align. It's also not possible to build one strategy for everyone. How could you make it right for all communities? How could you force everyone to follow it? You'd need a state...
Reading more about anarchism in general should expose you to concrete examples of what has been tried, how it worked, and how it was destroyed. I'd start with Orwell in Spain and the Anarcho-Syndicalysts.
Based on my understanding, the method by which we get from the world today to the an anarchist society is often conflated with the social revolution of socialism. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I doubt it. What I do know, is that anarchism isn't just a theory - it's a practice. We are meant to live it, not just talk about it.
Start with anarchism as a spice. Any time you're in a position to influence the governance of something, a project, club, society or council, insist on making sure that all use of authority is justified.
Get involved in everything you can, be the person that brings the anarchist perspective. You don't need to call yourself an anarchist and proclaim your actions for the cause. This isn't a crusade, you're not killing in the name of. It's about making sure that use of authority is justified. Offer the anarchist options, show others how to live a different way.
Finally, always be aware someone will recognize what you are and what you're about. Anarchism is about making power justify itself, and if it can't, abolishing that power. This means that those that seek power will always notice you're the problem to them acquiring more power. They will seek to eliminate or neuter your ability to interfere.
If you're making small waves in a small community, the response will likely be similarly small. If you've succeeded in making a whole region change to a different way of life, maybe it's a national guard with guns that comes knocking. Both can be devastating.
If that sounds like a lot of effort, it is. That's why the world hasn't switched overnight. I would say however, that it's no more effort than is required anyway. Every strategy picked must be checked for suitability - the ends cannot justify the means.
rako@tarte.nuage-libre.fr · 3 pts · 18d
I know all this and it wasn't my question. It's good to have values at your core, do what you can around you etc... but then building a nice community with people around can be enough. And I completely agree with that, you cannot change the world on your own. What I'm interested in is, how do you keep the flow going ? What makes it so that the end, is liberation of everyone and not just liberation of your community/region ? How not to conflate the end and the means ?
JadedBlueEyes@programming.dev · 1 pts · 17d
I feel like aiming for the ultimate liberation of absolutely everyone as your goal is sort of missing the point a bit. To force everyone to be free is an oxymoron, and a path to a kind of totalitarianism.
If you want to help more people, then implementing anarchist values around you is a great place to be! Sharing those values, and educating other people with useful tools can help them help the people around them too.
rako@tarte.nuage-libre.fr · 1 pts · 17d
Yes, I do want everyone to be liberated. Crucially I never said that I, or an organization, should liberate everyone, because I don't believe in this.
Yes, I know how it works, start around you etc... that's not what I'm curious about. That doesn't answer my question. How to make sure that, collectively, we don't stop in the middle ?
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works · 6 pts · 19d
I feel like responding to BadEmpanada is just a trap and anyone who doesn't know it by now is just feeding into it. He's just going to keep trying to sow and reap controversy.
naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 19d
I would love to see what this person has to say but 2 hours is absurd lol.
Do they have transcripts? Video is the least accessible thing ever.
poVoq@slrpnk.net · 4 pts · 18d
This is just a rebuttal video for responses to this short one: https://youtu.be/ZRJgYCi1vvY
BrilliantantTurd4361@sh.itjust.works · 3 pts · 18d
Is broseph single tho?
Souvenir@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 19d
It's a shame there's so much infighting on the left of the political spectrum. There is strength in a union.
A404@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 20 pts · 19d
I would be happy to work with other leftists towards a common goal but every time we tried that we ended up getting betrayed
Souvenir@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 19d
Which is a shame.
Grainne@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 6 pts · 19d
Which is why we need to stop thinking in terms of left vs right and more on people vs power.
alapakala@quokk.au · 3 pts · 19d
There’s in-fighting everywhere.
You think brownshirts seized power cooperatively?
A404@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 4 pts · 19d
the kkk and the nazis used to hate each other
alapakala@quokk.au · 3 pts · 19d
It's not even that, @souvenir@lemmy.dbzer0.com is completely aware fascists are turning on their führers as we type, yet one of us stomps on the powerless and the other empowers.
Which coin of in-fighting does souvenir want to face?
Deathcamps are still up.
Souvenir@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 19d
I'd prefer it if the fascists fought amongst themselves, while the left united to fight them tbh.
But yeah, not always possible. Which is partly why the far right is still in ascendance.
Souvenir@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -2 pts · 19d
I think you'll find they form a circle, hold the man to their right's penis, release their alpha male energy into the middle of the circle, and summon Mecha-Hitler. That's what the black sun/ sun wheel swastika symbol represents.
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net · 2 pts · 15d
The left is a broad collection of semi-related ideologies. I'm certainly not opposed to cooperating when we have a common goal but our politics are simply too different to form a single unified party or anything like that.
pleiades@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 17d
Yeah. Anarchist leftism achieves... um... wait, what has anarchism achieved again?
(I'm just messing around)
commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -13 pts · 19d
Yet neither side in this can even define what capitalism is and are both absolute brain dumps deattached from reality (materialism)
Farce vs farce
poVoq@slrpnk.net · 9 pts · 19d
If you mean "materialism" as defined by Marx, then yes that is an "absolute brain dump deattached from reality" as several modern anarchists and anthropologists have pointed out with ample of evidence.
commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 0 pts · 19d
Curious to see what this evidence is then, since every time this kind of a claim gets dropped there's 0 elaboration or if there is elaboration, it's always some metaphysics brimstone
poVoq@slrpnk.net · 3 pts · 18d
It's for example explained in length in Graeber's last book The Dawn Of Everything (with plenty of archeological evidence). Worth a read 👍
PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@anarchist.nexus · 9 pts · 19d
"Everyone is wrong except me"
commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -4 pts · 19d
Yeah you're right, I should have picked a sports team and brainlessly attacked the other in this youtube beef where each side is yelling "noo actually my ideology is better than yours!"
db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 8 pts · 19d
I can absolutely define what capitalism is at its core
commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com · -5 pts · 19d
How about defining what it fundamentally is at an economic level instead, given how it is a mode of production
Also the irony of responding to this by saying "yeah I can define it" then proceeding to not define it
db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 19d
It's because I don't bother to engage constructively with people who comment in bad faith.