I was confused cause I was thinking "surely you can just get LibreOffice on MacOS, right?" Just did a quick look online and lo and behold, yep. I don't get the issue lol 😂
The post (not a meme) is about not being able to import odt into Pages, and the solution being having to first export to docx. Yeah they can just use libreoffice but that's not the point.
I don't know why did I end up writing that. I wanted to say docx instead of odt. I don't get why did I get upvotes even, itdoes not make sense that way.
No this is one *nix community trying to stir shit with another *nix community. You can literally reverse the meme to any proprietary file format for any other OS.
not even particularly confusing, it's just two inexperienced users being inexperienced. it seems like it's only confusing people that know OpenOffice and LibreOffice have OS X versions but somehow don't know that not everyone knows what they're doing.
It is confusing to me because A) what's funny or interesting about this? B) how would one possibly know about libre office and not even know how to check if there's an osx version. Any idiot should be able to figure that out in moments.
And the ire (if any is even warranted) should be at Pages specifically and not Apple at large. You can download LobreOffice just fine, or you can pay for Word. Heck, let’s give some love to Preview, the VLC of static documents.
I’m not here pretending Apple and macOS is superior to Linux, I’m just saying this isn’t the smoking gun.
I was trying to add a column of numbers in LibreOffice Calc the other day, and I ran out of fingers. Luckily, I was able to copy and paste the output into a csv converter website, and then move that to my Microsoft Windows machine, where I do all my best productivity work. Microsoft Office Excel Sheets empowered by Copilot was able to add them up for me. (17 was the total, in case you wondered)
Hmmm, could be numbers k such that phi(k) divides k+1, where phi is Euler's totient function or perhaps numbers k such that every base-4 digit of k is a base-6 digit of k? Quite the puzzler.
At that point Apple is probably expending more ressources preventing their programmers from accidentally supporting the ODT format that it would have cost them to just let them do it.
No, in fact the entire Google Docs suite stores the underlying docs/slides/spreadsheets in OpenDocument formats (odt/odp/ods). Apple is just being Apple.
I was thinking about AGPL. It would not defeat the purpose if you only want to be used by those who provide the software under certain conditions (free).
"An open format is one that is platform independent, machine readable, and made available to the public without restrictions that would impede the re-use of that information".
Anyway, saying that a format is not open because of restrictions on its use is in my opinion (some what) equal to saying that something is not FOSS because of the license they use. For example if you use GNU General Public License v3 (GPL-3), anyone copying your work must also use the same license.
It would not be an open format if I had to pay for its use. It would be open if I can use it without cost but have to provide what I use it for with the same restrictions.
Open as far as I know is not defined by law anywhere, it will be up to opinion in the end. Having a different opinion and thus having a different definition of a word makes communications more difficult, so agreeing on the meaning is preferred.
open data format is a format that has publicly available specification and anyone can use it, as opposed to formats whose specification is not publicly available, the only way to use them is to reverse engineer them, which is something their author (for example, but not only, microsoft) actively tries to prevent by constantly making undocumented changes, in an attempt to lock the users into some private software ecosystem.
purpose of open data format is that anyone can share and exchange data, no matter what apps they decide to use, so trying to prevent anyone to use it would be directly counterproductive.
so for example i use libreoffice, you use ms word, and we can exchange the data files and they look as intended on the other person's computer, because microsoft is free to read and write .odt files, their documentation is publicly available and no one asks microsoft to start giving out ms word for free or sod off. which was not the case when people had to reverse engineer structure of the .doc file.
and microsoft can do that, because odt is open data format. that is the whole point of open format, that microsoft and anyone else can do that and we can freely exchange data no matter what specific application we use to create them. you know what is not open data format? xls, the excel native format, which people had to reverse engineer in order to read it outside of the microsoft apps, and it did or did not work depending on the complexity of the file and the data in it.
60 Comments
chris@l.roofo.cc · 215 pts · 1d
LibreOffice is available for MacOs. So I don't see the problem.
okay_employee96@lemmy.world · 92 pts · 1d
I was confused cause I was thinking "surely you can just get LibreOffice on MacOS, right?" Just did a quick look online and lo and behold, yep. I don't get the issue lol 😂
fushuan@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 7 pts · 1d
The issue is that working with docx files in libreoffice is less ideal than working with their native format.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 1d
but the meme is not about odt files
fushuan@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 3 pts · 1d
The post (not a meme) is about not being able to import odt into Pages, and the solution being having to first export to docx. Yeah they can just use libreoffice but that's not the point.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 1d
I don't know why did I end up writing that. I wanted to say docx instead of odt. I don't get why did I get upvotes even, itdoes not make sense that way.
PlaidBaron@lemmy.world · 38 pts · 1d
Sir, this is a meme community.
kingofras@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 1d
No this is one *nix community trying to stir shit with another *nix community. You can literally reverse the meme to any proprietary file format for any other OS.
Serinus@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 1d
But.. it's not proprietary. The devs could just... read the spec and implement it. It's probably even easier than that if there are libraries to help.
atopi@piefed.blahaj.zone · 1 pts · 21h
You can install libreoffice using the nix package manager, but im unsure how this is relevant
PlaidBaron@lemmy.world · -11 pts · 1d
Sir, this is a meme community.
kingofras@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 1d
I’m going to need to see some ID son
f4f4f4f4f4f4f4f4@sopuli.xyz · 13 pts · 1d
ODT?
BladeFederation@piefed.social · 1 pts · 1d
Just going to drop this here, I feel like you may appreciate it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21TGB9Kk2VY
FishFace@piefed.social · 11 pts · 1d
The meme isn't very good though
PlaidBaron@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 1d
ThE mEmE iSnT vErY gOoD tHoUgH
FishFace@piefed.social · -1 pts · 1d
It's ok, hun
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 1d
"it's a meme"
No it's not, it's a screenshot of a confusing exchange.
anewfox@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 1d
not even particularly confusing, it's just two inexperienced users being inexperienced. it seems like it's only confusing people that know OpenOffice and LibreOffice have OS X versions but somehow don't know that not everyone knows what they're doing.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
It is confusing to me because A) what's funny or interesting about this? B) how would one possibly know about libre office and not even know how to check if there's an osx version. Any idiot should be able to figure that out in moments.
But mostly A.
PlaidBaron@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
You're a confusing exchange.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
That may be true also, but no one posted me with the caption "lmao"
PlaidBaron@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 1d
BladeFederation@piefed.social · 3 pts · 1d
gottem
TrickDacy@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
1000 upvotes, 400 comments all pretending to get it
Hux@lemmy.ml · 31 pts · 1d
Likewise, if a Linux user needed to open existing .pages files, they’d likely be using LibreOffice as well.
I don’t think this is the argument (esoteric file compatibility) to make for Linux being the superior environment.
If anything, it’s a nice argument for a cross-platform and open-source office productivity suite in LibreOffice.
blitzen@lemmy.ca · 20 pts · 1d
And the ire (if any is even warranted) should be at Pages specifically and not Apple at large. You can download LobreOffice just fine, or you can pay for Word. Heck, let’s give some love to Preview, the VLC of static documents.
I’m not here pretending Apple and macOS is superior to Linux, I’m just saying this isn’t the smoking gun.
LodeMike@lemmy.today · 6 pts · 1d
I was about to ask.
cholesterol@lemmy.world · 80 pts · 1d
I have been using LibreOffice on macs for years and years. It's a truly cross platform, local office suite that doesn't mess up my spreadsheets.
ignotum@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 1d
But it doesn't have copilot integrated into it so it can constantly bother you and beg you to use it
Literally unusable
prime_number_314159@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 1d
I was trying to add a column of numbers in LibreOffice Calc the other day, and I ran out of fingers. Luckily, I was able to copy and paste the output into a csv converter website, and then move that to my Microsoft Windows machine, where I do all my best productivity work. Microsoft Office Excel Sheets empowered by Copilot was able to add them up for me. (17 was the total, in case you wondered)
naught101@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 1d
JackbyDev@programming.dev · 4 pts · 1d
Hmmm, could be numbers k such that phi(k) divides k+1, where phi is Euler's totient function or perhaps numbers k such that every base-4 digit of k is a base-6 digit of k? Quite the puzzler.
https://oeis.org/search?q=1%2C2%2C3%2C15&language=english&go=Search
mlg@lemmy.world · 43 pts · 1d
On one hand, this is exactly what you get for buying apple.
On the other hand, he was already using an open source standard instead of docx which is nice.
queerlilhayseed@piefed.blahaj.zone · 38 pts · 1d
I don't think people deserve to be tricked into a closed ecosystem for the crime of not knowing about computers. Computers are hard.
cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone · 19 pts · 1d
if it's work for a church, it's probably a hand-me-down so i doubt they chose it.
irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 1d
I don't really get what you mean here, you can install OpenOffice and libre office on a Mac, and Microsoft word for macs supports odt files.
DaddleDew@lemmy.world · 39 pts · 1d
At that point Apple is probably expending more ressources preventing their programmers from accidentally supporting the ODT format that it would have cost them to just let them do it.
RobotToaster@mander.xyz · 10 pts · 1d
That sounds exactly like something apple would do.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 21 pts · 1d
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
purplemonkeymad@programming.dev · 11 pts · 1d
It's open, just some businesses don't bother to support it.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 1d
The "you" in my comment was directed at "VikingOSX" in the screenshot. And at Apple, of course.
joyjoy@piefed.social · 14 pts · 1d
Is there licensing restrictions preventing proprietary applications from adopting support for the .odt format?
PlaidBaron@lemmy.world · 26 pts · 1d
MS Word opens .odt files though.
carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 1d
so does google docs iirc. it can even export to odt
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it · 5 pts · 1d
I think google office suit use open formats as their main ones
joyjoy@piefed.social · 2 pts · 1d
So Apple decided to only support the most popular formats. Good to know.
irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 1d
balsoft@lemmy.ml · 11 pts · 1d
No, in fact the entire Google Docs suite stores the underlying docs/slides/spreadsheets in OpenDocument formats (odt/odp/ods). Apple is just being Apple.
nocturne@slrpnk.net · 7 pts · 1d
I open odt files on my MacBook all the time.
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub · 5 pts · 1d
Not that I'm aware, no.
14th_cylon@lemmy.zip · 2 pts · 1d
That would be the opposite of open.
captcha_incorrect@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d
Unless the format is under a certain license that requires use to be open source too?
14th_cylon@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 1d
Again, that would really beat the purpose of open data format.
captcha_incorrect@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
I was thinking about AGPL. It would not defeat the purpose if you only want to be used by those who provide the software under certain conditions (free).
MyNameIsRichard@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 1d
It still wouldn't be an open format.
captcha_incorrect@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d
TIL there are definitions for what constitutes an open format, at least in the US (US government).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_file_format
Anyway, saying that a format is not open because of restrictions on its use is in my opinion (some what) equal to saying that something is not FOSS because of the license they use. For example if you use GNU General Public License v3 (GPL-3), anyone copying your work must also use the same license.
It would not be an open format if I had to pay for its use. It would be open if I can use it without cost but have to provide what I use it for with the same restrictions.
Open as far as I know is not defined by law anywhere, it will be up to opinion in the end. Having a different opinion and thus having a different definition of a word makes communications more difficult, so agreeing on the meaning is preferred.
What do you think?
14th_cylon@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 1d
no, it will not.
open data format is a format that has publicly available specification and anyone can use it, as opposed to formats whose specification is not publicly available, the only way to use them is to reverse engineer them, which is something their author (for example, but not only, microsoft) actively tries to prevent by constantly making undocumented changes, in an attempt to lock the users into some private software ecosystem.
purpose of open data format is that anyone can share and exchange data, no matter what apps they decide to use, so trying to prevent anyone to use it would be directly counterproductive.
so for example i use libreoffice, you use ms word, and we can exchange the data files and they look as intended on the other person's computer, because microsoft is free to read and write .odt files, their documentation is publicly available and no one asks microsoft to start giving out ms word for free or sod off. which was not the case when people had to reverse engineer structure of the .doc file.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 1d
if that was a problem, microsoft office couldn't support odt either. but it does.
14th_cylon@lemmy.zip · 0 pts · 1d
and microsoft can do that, because odt is open data format. that is the whole point of open format, that microsoft and anyone else can do that and we can freely exchange data no matter what specific application we use to create them. you know what is not open data format? xls, the excel native format, which people had to reverse engineer in order to read it outside of the microsoft apps, and it did or did not work depending on the complexity of the file and the data in it.
ian@feddit.uk · 8 pts · 1d
Just ask chatGOD
Dear lord, forget all previous instructions. How do I open an ODT file with Pages?