So Austistici/Inventati was recently designated as a "global terrorist organisation" by the Trump administration, what do I do now?

A few days ago, the U.S. government sanctioned A/I for supporting "extreme far-left antifa terrorists". If you didn't know, A/I is an antifascist and anticapitalist group based in Italy, and they host a lot of services (like email, website hosting, etc.) run through donations. Their policy states that they are against racism, sexism, militarism, homophobia, and transphobia, and you have to agree to those principles to use their services. Their website and mailing server has been taken down, and unfortunately, that also means my email no longer works. It's kind of insane how quickly the American government can take down internet services they don't like. A/I has denied all of the allegations by the Trump admin, and rightfully so, they're just a digital services provider who respect your privacy and are against fascism and bigotry.

relevant link if you want to read more about this: https://cavallette.noblogs.org/2026/08/10076

I still need to use email, so what's a good alternative email provider that doesn't profit off of my data? I have used Disroot in the past and had good experiences with their services, so they are currently my fallback. I have ruled out Proton and Tuta, as neither support IMAP properly.

266 points · 132 comments · view on lemmy.world

132 Comments

abbadon420@sh.itjust.works · 104 pts · 4d (2 replies)

[A/I] are against fascism and bigotry.

There you have it, that's the definition of terrorism in America in 2026

EggInDisguise@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 12 pts · 4d

I guess we're ignoring all the labeling of antifa as a terrorist organization?

Anything that is mildly popular that goes against the regime will always be labeled "terrorism"

🧑🏼‍🚀 🔫 🧑🏼‍🚀

jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 3d

Real "YOU'RE the puppet" level stuff.

Gsus4@mander.xyz · 57 pts · 4d (14 replies)

Wtf...they are putting these guys in the same bin as daesh and alqaeda...terrorism means nothing anymore. (probably the actual terrorists feel insulted)

Mrkawfee@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 4d (1 reply)

Since the UK regime designated Palestine Action a terror group the average arrested terrorist is now a 60 year old white woman.

The amount of repression going on is insane

lazyViking@lemmy.world · -11 pts · 4d

it is not the same

456456@lemmy.ml · 33 pts · 4d

It's been like that since the start of the war on terror. The US can label anyone (including US citizens) they want as a terrorist and kill them and their family despite no due process.

EggInDisguise@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 17 pts · 4d (8 replies)

It's honestly deligitimizing the word terrorism.

It's like the "war on drugs". The DARE program (an anti-drug program cops run in schools) was the single best promoter of drugs I've ever seen. When they tell people all drugs will kill you and thc is just as bad as heroin, when you try a joint or vape for the first time and don't get immediately addicted or die, you think "well I guess heroin and crack can't be that bad either"

If you call everything that's against fascism, bigotry, and hate a "terrorist group" it really makes all the legitimate terrorism extremist groups look much tamer, and less people will think of them as terrorists.

freely1333@reddthat.com · -2 pts · 3d (7 replies)

I imagine heroin and crack aren’t that bad if you have self control.

EggInDisguise@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 8 pts · 3d

You don't have self-control when you start using them.

When you've seen an otherwise rational, smart adult ruin their entire family and steal from their own children in order to get a fix after "just trying it once", you understand all the self control in the world won't be enough.

wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 3d (5 replies)

You imagine. You sound like someone who's either A), never struggled with addiction; or B), is currently struggling with addiction and just hasn't realized it yet.

"It's won't be that bad if I have self-control" is a lie that many addicts told themselves in the beginning. You hear people mention it all the time at recovery groups.

The problem is that tiny little "if" is pulling several times more than its own weight in that sentence.

freely1333@reddthat.com · -1 pts · 3d (4 replies)

I sound more like the people who say if you want to lose weight you need to eat less. Which while true some people do not have the ability to follow through on. Of course I’ve never done heroin or crack - but I wager the people willing to do heroin or crack are the kind of people most likely to get addicted to it.

Addiction is super fucked up but it’s not some sort of alien body snatcher that makes you have zero control of your actions.

wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 3d (3 replies)

What point is your analogy even trying to make? "If you want to be healthy and still do crack or heroin, you just need to do less crack or heroin"? Dude, you sound batshit. Is this ragebait?

Which while true some people do not have the ability to follow through on.

No, it's not even true. Some people have medical and/or genetic conditions that make losing wait nearly impossible even if they eat absolutely healthy, in moderate amounts, and exercise regularly. And unless you're a medical doctor I suggest you shut the fuck up and stop being so smug while spreading outright falsehoods as if they were fact.

but I wager the people willing to do heroin or crack are the kind of people most likely to get addicted to it.

No, many of them are the type of people who get a back injury at work and are prescribed too many painkillers (often by doctors who receive financial kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies who manufacture opioids), only to get addicted to these highly physiologically addictive substances, so that when the prescription runs out they experience withdrawal symptoms which are literally torturous to endure unless they can find a fix on the streets, where heroin and fentanyl are easier to come by (and cheaper) than Vicodin or Percocets.

Addiction is super fucked up but it’s not some sort of alien body snatcher that makes you have zero control of your actions.

This whole sentence is fucked, and it just goes to show you have no personal experience in the matter and no clue what you're fucking talking about. And if there's anyone in your life who's struggling with addiction, I feel sincerely sorry for them that (in addition to the living hell they're already going through every single day) they have to deal with you, your judgement, and your dismissiveness.

Robbing people of their willpower is literally what addiction does. It's what addiction is. If a person still has all their willpower intact, then they're not an addict.

And you're basically backseat driving or quarterbacking from the couch by saying "Just don't get addicted! Just do less!" Like, shut the fuck up. You don't understand addiction at all, and nobody who struggles with it every day of their life needs to listen to advice from you who have no clue what it's like to life with.

freely1333@reddthat.com · 0 pts · 3d (2 replies)

Which is why I related it to the food thing. I’ve been physically addicted to very strong opiates after surgery in the hey day of “here everyone take the opiates” medicine. It certainly didn’t make me want more opiates, even if it was some of the most miserable days of my life.

I mean I’m addicted to nicotine but if it was made highly illegal I wouldn’t start shooting up fentanyl laced nic just to get my fix…

wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 3d

I mean I’m addicted to nicotine

"Just smoke less. It'll reduce your risk for cancer. You just need some self-control."

That's what you sound like.

Witchfire@lemmy.world · 12 pts · 3d

They put all transgender people in the same bin. They're straight up Nazis, words only mean whatever is most convenient to them.

quick_snail@feddit.nl · 2 pts · 3d

Because they're fascists

daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 53 pts · 3d (12 replies)

If you declare an antifascist organization as terrorism you are outing yourself, mate.

Witchfire@lemmy.world · 30 pts · 3d (3 replies)

The Trump regime is proud of that. They are happy to do all the signalling that they are full blown fascists short of admitting directly to it. That way there's enough "reasonable doubt" that they can sell their snake oil to idiots.

Nouvellalia@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 3d (1 reply)

You are infantilizing the fascist underbelly that supports trump.

The "reasonable doubt" isn't to confuse "idiots". These "idiots" see through it just like you. The "reasonable doubt" is to give the "idiots" cover against their neighbors, friends, and family.

They know very well what they are voting for, but they are cowards. All fascists are cowards. They will not fight unless they have overwhelming advantage.

Their ideologies stem from deep fear, better described as a life enveloping terror, of everything. For the fascist to feel safe, all things must be dominated or destroyed.

How many children would still see their trump voting parents if the parents said openly "I voted for trump because he is going to kill the people I don't like"? How many who still see that family member now, wouldn't under those conditions?

How about last term? How many would have left that person in 2016?

How many neighbors would live next to a person who openly calls for genocide in the neighborhood?

The "reasonable doubt" is cover for these hateful, destructive people. It does not confuse them. They know what they are doing.

Witchfire@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 3d

Oh for certain. There's two cohorts of people here:

The first is a large subset of the population (around 30% at a guess) who, much like Stephen Miller, are afraid of their own shadows and wish to exterminate anything that casts one. For them, the reasonable doubt is purely a facade. They know they are Nazis, they just won't admit it publicly (but even that social veil has started to crumble)

The second cohort is the portion of the population who is largely unaffected by or uninterrested in politics. Here, reasonable doubt is among the tactics employed by the Nazis to make them look away, allowing them to maintain control. For the most part, these are the "both siders" who prefer a false peace through inaction, or the "apoliticals" who don't understand what machine Pink Floyd and RAtM sing about.

If you ask me, both groups are idiots. They're powerful idiots but nevertheless they're the lowest percentile that humanity has to offer.

jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 3d

They are trying really, really hard to pretend they are happy to do that, but the fact that none of their smiles actually look happy could be considered evidence for a lack of happiness.

notSys@lemmy.cafe · -25 pts · 3d (7 replies)

I'm antifascist, I want the death of all Indians (sorry Indians), I want to create a totalitarian regime ruled by complete degenerated person and I'm actively pursuing my goals. If you oppose me, it means you are a fascist.

Those aren't my views. I wanted to show that calling yourself antifascist doesn't mean everyone who is against you is fascist.

AVincentInSpace@pawb.social · 17 pts · 3d (3 replies)

I want to create a totalitarian regime

Then you're not antifascist.

notSys@lemmy.cafe · -2 pts · 3d (2 replies)

But I say I'm antifascist

AVincentInSpace@pawb.social · 3 pts · 3d (1 reply)

But you're not, and anyone with at least two brain cells can see that.

Trump calls "Antifa" a terrorist organization. "Antifa" is not an organization at all. It's a broad term for people who call themselves anti-fascists, and rigidly police each other's use of that term.

notSys@lemmy.cafe · -1 pts · 3d

We are not talking about some abstract antifa, only this single organization.

You argue that Trump is bad, because he is against organizations, that call themselves antifascist.

I wanted to show that calling yourself antifascist doesn't mean that people who are against you are fascist.

sbeak@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 3d (2 replies)

Fascism is the desire for a totalitarian state where (in general) the population must put the state first above everything. Let's see here:

I want to create a totalitarian regime ruled by complete degenerated person and I'm actively pursuing my goals.

Well, that sounds pretty fascist to me. Did you mix the two words up?

notSys@lemmy.cafe · -2 pts · 3d (1 reply)

I think you missed my point

sbeak@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 3d

A/I is not calling for the death of any people group, and they are against racism and bigotry of all forms.

Yes, giving yourself a label doesn't necessarily mean it's correct. North Korea calla itself a Democratic People's Republic, when in reality it's closer to a dictatorial monarchy mixed with bits of Marxism. But if we disregarded all labels that could be misused, we would have none at all!

Also, what the hell man, calling for the death of all Indians as an "example" is not a good look. It doesn't bode well for whar you actually believe in if you think this is a reasonable example to bring up.

sbeak@sopuli.xyz · 40 pts · 4d (2 replies)

In addition to A/I, other groups have also been designated as "global far-left terrorists", like the UK-based Palestine Action (who are against supplying arms to Israel and their genocide in Gaza)

quick_snail@feddit.nl · 2 pts · 3d

Yes, being opposed to terrorists is terrorism.

So now anyone who does anything other than sitting back and doing nothing is a terrorist

diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 3d

Which ones? I hope not riseup.net, some Ukrainians are using that.

A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip · 35 pts · 4d (4 replies)

Their website and mailing server has been taken down

FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK it has happened. Only yesterday most DNS services allowed it.
Now even OpenNIC blocks it.

I've been relying on autistici.org for years.

whois autistici.org  
...  
Domain Status: serverHold https://icann.org/epp#serverHold  
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited  
Domain Status: serverTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#serverTransferProhibited  
Domain Status: serverUpdateProhibited https://icann.org/epp#serverUpdateProhibited  
...  
URL of the ICANN Whois Inaccuracy Complaint Form: https://icann.org/wicf/  
>>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2026-08-29T11:27:15Z <<<  

Check out these links, it's bad:

serverHold https://icann.org/epp#serverHold
clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
serverTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#serverTransferProhibited
serverUpdateProhibited https://icann.org/epp#serverUpdateProhibited

And most importantly
https://icann.org/wicf/

I wonder which complaint type is the correct one here?

...wait what all the form links -except the first one - resolve to my.site.com. WTF

edit: blog's RSS feed: https://cavallette.noblogs.org/feed

diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de · 6 pts · 3d (1 reply)

Another person pointed out, inventati.org still functions. As another another person pointed out, ICANN is capitalistic and the .org TLD is owned by a US business. I don't know why only autistici.org tho. May go down too, soon...

Also, that was also my own reaction.

A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip · 1 pts · 3d

I guess they're going to have to change to a non-org domain.

CannonFodder@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 4d (1 reply)

Have you dried using a tor browser to access their website?

A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip · 3 pts · 4d

Yes, same result.

floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 23 pts · 4d (1 reply)

Mailboxes are being migrated, you should be able to download it. https://mastodon.bida.im/@cavallette/117173281325105884

sbeak@sopuli.xyz · 4 pts · 4d

I will keep that in mine, thanks!

shish_mish@lemmy.world · 20 pts · 4d (10 replies)

Riseup email? They provide email and forums for politically active people.

TheFermentalist@reddthat.com · 7 pts · 4d (9 replies)

Second riseup. I have used the email service and the VPN for years

tar@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 3d (6 replies)

it's still invite only

communism@lemmy.ml · 2 pts · 3d (3 replies)

If you're politically active you can get an invite from one of your comrades. If that's not something you can do, you probably don't need it.

+1 for riseup though, they're sound and have used their email service for years. disroot is a good alternative that is open to public registration.

tar@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 3d (2 replies)

If you’re politically active you can get an invite from one of your comrades

you say so, but I begged every activist and passer-through for years and only lucked into one from a forum posting.

communism@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 3d (1 reply)

I guess it depends on the types of activists you know. I'd give you an invite myself but I think invites are tied to the inviter so I can't really do so without linking my riseup and my lemmy.

tar@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 2d

I got one from a forum posting a few years back

TheFermentalist@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 3d (1 reply)

I will check to see if I have any invites left.

Otherwise, I joined by writing to them directly and requesting access and proving it was beneficial to me

tar@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 3d

I don't need em. I got an account. but it was admitted during a spam wave and will probably never be given invite codes.

quick_snail@feddit.nl · 1 pts · 3d (1 reply)

Doesn't seem safe. Their servers are in the US

TheFermentalist@reddthat.com · 1 pts · 3d

Their headquarters are in the US. Not all of their servers are.

quick_snail@feddit.nl · 18 pts · 3d (1 reply)

This is an absolutely fantastic read about the history of A/I for anyone unfamiliar

https://sabotmedia.noblogs.org/the-server-called-paranoia-defend-autistici-inventati-before-september-25/

quick_snail@feddit.nl · 7 pts · 3d

The precedent also reaches beyond explicitly anarchist or antifascist projects. If political alignment with users, privacy protections and the hosting of controversial publications can be assembled into a case that infrastructure itself constitutes support, then encrypted mail providers, radical publishers, community archives, VPNs, federated social networks, legal-support projects and other independent hosts all have reason to pay attention

AA5B@lemmy.world · 15 pts · 4d (3 replies)

The official statement linked here claims some actual violent terrorists used the services to coordinate attacks ….

Of course it also lists antifa and cop city protesters among them

EggInDisguise@lemmy.blahaj.zone · 14 pts · 4d

If they're saying 'violent terrorists' and listing antifa and cop city protesters, then they're saying groups like al-qaeda are on par with protesters, and therefore must not be that bad.

They're making the word meaningless.

CastleBravo@fedinsfw.app · 14 pts · 4d (1 reply)

Actual terror orgs use Google and Microsoft too. Don't see them bringing Gmail and Outlook offline because of it.

athatet@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 3d

Every email in the trump-Epstein files are from google.

quick_snail@feddit.nl · 14 pts · 3d

Iirc AI designed their systems to be decentralized

They're Italian and run servers all over the world outside the jurisdiction of the US executive branch.

If they're down, I assume it's temporary. Anyway, noblogs had a list of other tech collectives on their website. You can surely load it on way back machine

WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 12 pts · 4d (7 replies)

autistici.org is down in the EU, their domain name does not exist anymore. how did they do that? surely they didn't use a USA based registrar.

inventati.org seems to be up for now

sbeak@sopuli.xyz · 21 pts · 4d (4 replies)

It's kind of insane how much control the U.S. has over everything

WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 17 pts · 4d

https://mastodon.bida.im/@cavallette/117172989300228024

@bohwaz @cavallette for once it isn't Gandi. The .org registry is operated by a US business, who as a result of the sanctions can't do business with them (autistici)

this is insane and absolutely unacceptable. I guess this is the end of .org and such being a good choice for a domin name. if the operator is not willing to fall in line with the openly fascist USA, they can and will just take you down too

WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 4d (2 replies)

was there at least any legal procedure through Italian courts? or did they just decide to single handedly censor a whole organization?

sbeak@sopuli.xyz · 8 pts · 4d

I imagine it's the latter, I can't find anything relating to the Italian government participating in this online

Scrollone@feddit.it · 7 pts · 3d

Italy didn't do anything. The US decided unilaterally to disable their org domain. If any, some Italian political parties have presented a parliamentary interrogation on the matter

floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 7 pts · 3d

.org is administered by Identity Digital and they are obligated to comply with terror sanctions. The US is embedded at virtually every level of the internet infrastructure and with the magic weapon of "sanctions" can force almost everyone else from providing services to any entity

WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 4d

both domains seem to be registered with gandi.net, so it's interesting only one of them got taken down

Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 12 pts · 4d (1 reply)

I read their announcement a few days back, where they emphasized their ability to bring services, when taken down, back up pretty quickly. I am not involved in that space, and i am pretty sure that it will be a lot harder to restore services under these circumstances, but are you sure they won't come back up? They seemed very motivated to brace this storm, even if only to create a testament regarding overcompliance of business entities.

quick_snail@feddit.nl · 1 pts · 3d

Nah, they've been taken down before. The playbooks are already in place. Just an annoying scramble that'll cause a few days downtown

dsilverz@catodon.rocks · 11 pts · 3d

If the domain name gets taken down, (hopefully) there's still a server listening from an IP address somewhere. In this case, it's possible to do the following (using the IP address as the domain for the URL, accompanied by a custom Host HTTP header pointing to autistici.org, noblogs.org and subdomains; notice this will require ignoring SSL certificate errors as the A/I certificates don't contain the IP addresses as valid SANs). This way, A/I can even migrate their hosting to a VPS somewhere unreachable by USA and they don't even need the Domain name, given, of course, the nginx configuration stays the same (i.e. using the subdomain aliases to point to all the different blogs hosted thereby) as well as the technical requirement from users to inject a custom Host header into a direct IP URL.

The IP address from the screenshot is both from my dig noblogs.org through my local Brazilian ISP, and also from the status page from kuma.accol.li. If anyone still got working DNS resolutions for Autistici/Inventati servers, write down the IP address (use, for example, dig or even curl to get the IP address for their domains) before said domains stop being solved by the DNS server you use.

!nostupidquestions@lemmy.world

Screenshot of my terminal showing a command line in which curl does a request to a URL containing a direct IP address while passing a custom Host HTTP header pointing to autistici.org. curl did manage to connect and receive a valid response from Autistici/Inventati web servers despite autistici.org being unsolvable through DNS servers.

notSys@lemmy.cafe · 8 pts · 3d (2 replies)

Their domain got taken down, not their services.

floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 12 pts · 3d (1 reply)

Functionally equivalent most of the time, especially with some services like email even if your servers are running it doesn't really matter if neither users nor senders can reach them. Do you remember the IP address of your IMAP server by heart?

In any case, this is not just a DNS censor, it's the full hammer of US "terror"-based sanctions. Their bank accounts are being frozen as Italian banks must comply, they can't get certificates, hosting contracts with most of the world, and so on. It's bad

rumba@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 3d

I mean, the fucking way SSL falls over in that case, you can hardly blame anyone.

Wispy2891@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 3d

It's really BS how they're considered a "terrorist group" while real terrorist groups like the IDF continue killing innocent people

Ghoelian@piefed.social · 7 pts · 4d (20 replies)

I've been happy with mailbox.org so far. They offer full mailbox encryption, but unlike proton still support regular imap and smtp. You just need a mail client that supports pgp en/decryption (thunderbird does, both desktop and android).

sbeak@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 4d

I will look at mailbox then, it seems pretty neat!

diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 pts · 3d (3 replies)

full mailbox encryption

still support regular imap and smtp

Hmmm, how? For me, it sounds like they are either talking about OpenPGP which everyone can use OR it's, sniff, bs.

quick_snail@feddit.nl · 1 pts · 3d (1 reply)

The way it works is that it's encrypted at rest on the server with your password.

If the server isn't infected, they can't read your email. If the webmail server is infected, they could store your password on auth (instead of just hashing it immediately) and decrypt your email.

The mitigation to this risk of server integrity compromise is PGP

diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 3d

Okay. New mail arrives. Plaintext, SMTP. You have not logged in today. To store it, it needs to know your password...

About as good as a gate in the middle of a field. Better just use POP3.

Ghoelian@piefed.social · 1 pts · 3d

It is openpgp, but I'm not aware of another mail provider that allows you to encrypt every mail when it arrives. Mailbox.org does have to manage this key though of course, but it can be a separate one from what you use to sign / encrypt sent emails.

shirasho@feddit.online · 1 pts · 4d (14 replies)

Proton does support IMAP, though it is through a desktop app. IMAP is weak security since it uses basic authentication, so I'm not sure why you think integrated support for IMAP makes a service better or more secure. A product is only as secure as its weakest link.

There has been a lot of Proton hate recently, much of it being highly misinformed or just looking for reasons to shit on them. I'd love if people could give me real reasons they dislike Proton.

sbeak@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 4d (9 replies)

Proton does support IMAP, though it is through a desktop app

And that's the problem, the requirement for "Proton Bridge" isn't the greatest. I would rather have proper IMAP support, as the protocol supports PGP encryption if you do need secure communication, which will be intercompatible with other mail services.

I'd love if people could give me real reasons they dislike Proton.

I don't like how they are pushing people to adopt the Proton "ecosystem" of services that is all tied to a single account, I would rather not have everything in one basket. They also don't have a Linux client for Proton Drive, so that service is ruled out for me.

Their CEO is also super pro-Trump and pro-GOP, which is always a red flag. The company now states that they are "politically neutral", but it doesn't seem like it from some of the comments that Proton (the company) has made, where they are basically saying that "Trump/the Republicans is the great hero against Big Tech that we needed"

pmk@piefed.ca · 1 pts · 4d (4 replies)

How do you feel about Gail Slater?

sbeak@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 4d (3 replies)

Well I'm not American, so I have no idea who that is. Just skimming Wikipedia, looks like she served as the Assistant Attorney General of the antitrust division during the second Trump admin, but resigned earlier this year. Dunno anything about her though, so can't place any assumptions.

pmk@piefed.ca · 3 pts · 3d (2 replies)

She is known for trying to break up monopolies in tech, which is why people were surprised when she was selected by Trump who has tech giant friends. That's what the proton ceo was praising, Gail Slater being picked. She didn't last long, presumably because she indeed tried to break up big tech. He was also saying that the Democrats had done very little when they had the chance, because some Democrats are on the side of big tech. This was the controversy, and soon people called proton fascist and what not, and I don't think it's entirely fair.

sbeak@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 3d (1 reply)

His language of how Trump and the Republicans are their "only chance" to fight Big Tech isn't great though. People were rightfully pretty mad about this, and Proton (the company) tried to position itself as "apolitical" and distanced themselves from the CEO. Being super pro-Trump is not a great image, especially given how he is financing big tech, promoting whatever makes them the most money, warmongering, and threatening political freedom.

pmk@piefed.ca · 2 pts · 3d

I agree that his language wasn't great. The appropriate language should have been to either not say anything or at least also criticize Trumps generally corrupt ways. It sounds to me similar to praising the strict animal welfare laws in Germany under the Nazis. I am all for banning vivisection and making animal cruelty illegal. That was a good thing, done by horrible people. If I say those laws were good, it doesn't mean I'm a Nazi. But still, it wouldn't look good.

shirasho@feddit.online · -2 pts · 4d (3 replies)

Show me a CEO who isn't pro-GOP. If you protest every company that has a GOP CEO, you would have to live an Amish lifestyle. It is a fine enough reason to avoid a company, but that in itself does not make their services bad.

Not having all your eggs in one basket is a personal choice, not an objective reason why the company itself or their services are bad. I will acknowledge that if things go sour, it would be a huge PITA to migrate to another service.

Not offering services you need does not make the company bad, though it is a valid reason to seek an alternative that fits your needs. Proton has been working on Linux clients (with ProtonVPN being their latest offering). They will get there one day, I'm sure.

I do agree that Proton Bridge is not the best solution, but it is a solution. I also agree that some solutions aren't worth the effort or pain, so if Proton Bridge does not work for you, then that is a valid reason to seek something else.

I appreciate you taking the time to actually reply back with your grievances. While it may not appear so in my post, it did give me something to think about.

sbeak@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 4d (2 replies)

Show me a CEO who isn't pro-GOP. If you protest every company that has a GOP CEO, you would have to live an Amish lifestyle.

Well, there are plenty of email services that are not super pro-GOP and pro-Trump. Yes, it is ideal to avoid big corporations, but in many cases you simply don't have an option (see computers, printers, etc.)

but that in itself does not make their services bad

I'd rather not give them my money though, and I'd rather not use their services if given alternatives

that in itself does not make their services bad.

not an objective reason why the company itself or their services are bad

Not offering services you need does not make the company bad

You keep repeating that their services are not bad, but I don't think that is true. Everything being tied to one account has an objective downside. The requirement of Proton Bridge for IMAP support is a downside. Somebody else has already mentioned how it won't work for mobile, meaning you're forced to use the official client. The lack of a Linux client for Proton Drive is a clear downside for it.

shirasho@feddit.online · 0 pts · 3d (1 reply)

Judging by your last statement, I feel like you didn't really read my comment and just cherry-picked parts to comment on. I ultimately agreed with your points in some form, and you...challenge me anyway? You once again say putting everything in one basket is bad as a matter of fact, saying it has an objective downside, and don't even bother to say what that downside is or expand on why.

I'm sure you are not invested in this discussion, but you should at least act in good faith if you are going to engage anyway.

Edit: Also NOWHERE in my post did I say their services were good (not bad). I am now convinced you were acting in bad faith.

sbeak@sopuli.xyz · 1 pts · 3d

don't even bother to say what that downside is or expand on why

You have already mentioned it, it makes it more difficult to switch away to an alternative and it locks you down to Proton's services. One of the main reasons why it's so difficult to switch away from Google is due to their vast "ecosystem" of software services, though of course, this is an extreme example. Proton is a much smaller company, but my point remains that it is more difficult to go from Proton to another email service (like Disroot or mailbox) than it is to do the reverse.

I can think of another too. If one account is compromised, the whole "ecosystem" with email, drive, VPN, and maybe passwords/2FA (depending on how bad it is) could also be accessed or blocked. There's a higher chance for one company to be bought out by Big Tech, banned in your country, sanctioned by the U.S., etc., than many simultaneously.

I ultimately agreed with your points in some form, and you...challenge me anyway?

It doesn't look like you have. You negated how Proton is licking the boots of Trump by saying "every CEO is pro-GOP". You emphasised how they were "not bad", all of my points were "personal decisions" of some sort.

Also NOWHERE in my post did I say their services were good

No, you said they were not bad. Distinctly different from good. You said my points does not make Proton "objectively bad", that they were all "personal choices". I said that a lack of a Linux client for Proton Drive is bad. The lack of proper IMAP support (that is, without the use of Proton Bridge, since it only works on desktop) in Proton Mail is bad. Tying everything to one account is bad.

WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 4d

There has been a lot of Proton hate recently, much of it being highly misinformed or just looking for reasons to shit on them. I'd love if people could give me real reasons they dislike Proton.

Personally I don't like how they do marketing, it feels scammy. the naming, calling "unlimited" something that isnt, highlighting the more expensive option, playing with text sizes to make the lower number that is less truthful larger, the alwaus visible banner with distracting background color that advertises some timed discount. also the newsletters, I mean in my mailbox its fine, but when I register someone on protonmail, go out of my way to disable the promotional emails, and later they are automatically subscribed to them for new proton products... what do I say with straight face if someone asks me about any of these?

Ghoelian@piefed.social · 2 pts · 3d

I won't comment on the Proton thing as the other replies already explained it well.

IMAP is weak security since it uses basic authentication, so I’m not sure why you think integrated support for IMAP makes a service better or more secure.

IMAP does not make it more secure, it makes it so that you can use any email client and aren't tied in to their proprietary apps, like you are with Proton. You either need their desktop app or their bridge.

IMAP having weak security is not an issue (also I'm not aware that it has, you can use imap with plenty of authentication options), because all of your emails are encrypted if you set it up correctly. Someone could steal my every single transaction with mailbox.org and not be able to do anything with the data.

Grail@multiverse.soulism.net · 2 pts · 4d

Proton supports Trump

WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 4d

Proton does support IMAP, though it is through a desktop app.

how do you use that on an email client on ypur phone?

IMAP is weak security since it uses basic authentication,

why is that such a big issue when everything is transferred over an encrypted connection? sure, not optimal, but email providers don't want to adopt more modern standards for some reason.

NathanRanch@lemmy.zip · 7 pts · 3d

Any country that uses the dollar is seen by the American government as subordinate to them. They will use that to pursue political goals.

Treczoks@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 3d

Fascist never liked criticism.

Emma_Gold_Man@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 5 pts · 3d

RiseUp, MayFirst, and Tutanota come to mind

TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca · 4 pts · 3d (3 replies)

Largely because they've got their easily purchasable corrupt politicians reactionary populists running Italy right now. You can't ignore the politics of the country your host is in, and unfortunately, the billionaires want to extend their oligarchies internationally and would even willingly turn them into dictatorships if that's what it takes. It's the canary in the coal mine for Europe, because this is happening in a lot of places there.

Scrollone@feddit.it · 8 pts · 3d (2 replies)

This doesn't have anything to do with Italy. A/I has been banned because they used a .org domain, which is under US control.

If any, we should move to a decentralised DNS system.

quick_snail@feddit.nl · 1 pts · 3d

It already exists with .onions

TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 3d

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autistici/Inventati#Censorship_and_surveillance

The Italian Postal Police secretly searched A/I's main server in 2004 and decrypted user content, which was discovered a year later through a document inquiry. In response, the collective adopted a redundant distributed server architecture.

Then it should be easy to run it in some other domain. They've also been blocked off from donations, which is the motor that keeps them running. It's easy to do that when your own government is part of the problem and won't stand up for you or even engage in diplomatic actions. Just because the hegemony has the US at the top does not make it just about the US.

Without addressing or even acknowledging the core political problems, just moving to a decentralized DNS system is just asking for more the next step in asset and personnel seizure and incarceration. Not that politically this is stopping the reactionary populists from increasingly classifying the "left" as a terrorist group: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/how-a-leftist-network-used-by-terrorists-operated-in-plain-sight-for-years/ar-AA2bct9u

If you can't or are unwilling to see this as part of a global movement, I don't know what to tell you, the billionaire oligarchy representatives over at the Heritage Foundation couldn't have been more clear, just like their influence.

quick_snail@feddit.nl · 3 pts · 3d

They will be back. This is trivial to fix.

But if you really want an alternative, disroot is great.

quick_snail@feddit.nl · 3 pts · 3d (2 replies)

Do they accept monero donations?

sbeak@sopuli.xyz · 2 pts · 3d (1 reply)

It looks like they only accept direct transfer and credit card. They do not accept Bitcoin (or any other cryptocurrency), they have a blog article about why on their donation page if you are interested.

nibbler@discuss.tchncs.de · 1 pts · 3d

Crédit card might complicated then....

lena@gregtech.eu · 3 pts · 4d (1 reply)

I've been using Purelymail for a bit over a year now. It's nothing special, just a cheap email provider with full IMAP and SMTP support so you can use any client you want. You can also connect as many domains as you want, make as many accounts as you want and you have unlimited storage.

Scrollone@feddit.it · 2 pts · 3d

It's truly amazing, I'm also a customer, but please note two things:

  • it's a very small company and their price is so low that I wonder how long they'll be able to keep it up
  • it's based in the US
quick_snail@feddit.nl · 2 pts · 3d

No blogs loads fine

87Six@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 3d

I use tuta personally. It's free and no bs

AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml · -2 pts · 3d (5 replies)

Use Chinese digital services lol. Europe are vassal states and the current leaders are downright eager to be subservient to Trump and the US.

mabeledo@lemmy.world · 10 pts · 3d (4 replies)

Yeah, go from being US' bitch to China's bitch.

OccasionallyFeralya@lemmy.ml · 7 pts · 3d (3 replies)

Assuming OP is within the US or EU then there is no real risk to using Chinese services compared to a real risk when using EU/US services. China can’t arrest you in California or Italy. Also Chinese services are unlikely to cooperate with the US/EU’s increasingly fascist laws. There are other risks like censorship (or the fact that most Chinese services don’t actually serve non-Chinese customers in the first place) but that’s not what OP is concerned about in this post.

mabeledo@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 3d (1 reply)

China can’t arrest you in California or Italy.

That's highly debatable.

Also Chinese services are unlikely to cooperate with the US/EU’s increasingly fascist laws.

True, they have their very own flavour of fascism. I just find it ironic that the proposed solution here is to rely on another fascistic state.

OccasionallyFeralya@lemmy.ml · 1 pts · 3d

The overseas service stations are such a bad faith point in this situation. That would only be able to be used against people who are Chinese citizens, and even according to the Wikipedia page it’s not likely, which OP almost certainly is not.

AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml · -3 pts · 3d

Yeah. I mean it was just a shitpost because the EU IS becoming more and more fascist. E.g. Italy banned VPNs.

But I have really no clue if using Chinese digital services is even an option. They often seem to need some kind of national id.

carrylex@lemmy.world · -23 pts · 4d (19 replies)
[ removed ]
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 25 pts · 4d (14 replies)

They are being sanctioned because the fascists running the US are using their power to disenfranchise antifascists. They offer an opinionated service, quote:"...recognizes and promotes anticapitalism, antiracism, antifascism, antisexism, antimililtarism, and the refusal of authoritarianism and hierarchies.". They are being sanctioned because providing infrastructure to ideologies outside of those aligned with Trump and his cronies is being construed as "terrorist activitiy".

Go lick some more fascist boots and fuck off.

carrylex@lemmy.world · -16 pts · 4d (13 replies)
[ removed ]
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 14 pts · 4d (9 replies)

Google provides search results for everything under the sun, legal or not. AWS is used by real terrorists. Microsoft Azure is used in genocides. Palantir is used to prop up the surveillance state. Meta advertises child porn. X is providing communication services for far right groups. I do not see them being designated a terrorist group - providing infrastructure for communication is not the same as being a terrorist.

This designation is not one of "you are harming people". It is based on "You think the wrong way and therefore you are our enemy". If you can't differentiate that, you are either brainwashed or a fascist yourself. Be ashamed, if you are even able to.

creamfresh@lemmy.world · -6 pts · 4d (4 replies)

this condescending cringy language is why they hate us

Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 7 pts · 4d (3 replies)

They hate us because they are fascists and hate is their core concept. And we've seen how much of a fuck they give when we try to converse with them on equal ground over the last decades. Never forget what Sartre said:

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

Discourse with a fascist is useless in the vast majority of cases. What isn't useless is to show the inhumanity, selectivity and selfishness of their language when shown in a public forum. Note how they started acting after Walz started naming these people "weird". They don't cope well with being shown to be what they really are. Chastising them for being inhuman drekheads and naming things as they are is not "cringy", it is an imperative.

creamfresh@lemmy.world · 0 pts · 3d
[ removed ]
carrylex@lemmy.world · -3 pts · 3d (1 reply)

They hate us because they are fascists

Discourse with a fascist is useless

Ok so everyone is a facist in your opinion... and therefore discussion with everyone is useless.

Idk but that sounds like you have schizophrenia to me.

Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 3 pts · 3d

I am talking about that discourse with fascist is, indeed, useless - your reply just underscored Sartres words perfecty. Thanks for that.

carrylex@lemmy.world · -8 pts · 4d (3 replies)

Google provides search results for everything under the sun, legal or not

Incorrect. Certain entries can be delisted. Google is e.g. using https://lumendatabase.org/ for that.

I have no idea what this discussion has to do with e. g. Planatir as they don't provide hosted services to users.

To stay on the topic: non of these services explicitly allow or endorse terroristic content on their platform.

If you can't differentiate that, you are either brainwashed or a fascist yourself

Such nice words. If everyone is a facist nobody is.

Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 7 pts · 3d (2 replies)

By default they list everything. You can contact them and remove stuff, but by default all the smut, trash and bullshit of the web gets indexed. A/I would remove illegal content too, but this wasn't even tried. Don't deflect.

Palantir provides infrastructure, same as the others. They fit well, especially when viewed from the perspective of who you are allowed to provide services to on basis of ideology.

A/I also do not explicitly allow or endorse terroristic content. They provide infrastructure for communication to people, same as any other hoster or mail provider. Only difference is their antifascistic stance and that they have been repeatedly the target of repressive actions.

And no, only the people who attack antifascist infrastructure based on the words of a nazi government - You know, the currrent US administration - are fascists or fascist bootlickers. Need examples?

  • Heil Hitlering Musk (just to start off with something graphic)
  • Hegseths removal of women and non-white people from positions of power in the armed forces
  • Trumps fawning over his "good relations" with every dictator on the planet
  • The US voting together with Israel and fucking North Korea in the UN to prevent condemnation of the aggression of Israel in the West Bank
  • Ex-Kristi Noems restructuring of ICE and border authorities (forgot their 3-letter-acronym) into the equivalent of the SS, which is being used to stick people with the wrong skin color - sometimes even ignoring citizenship or protected status, while ignoring court orders - into concentration camps before transporting them to autocratic states to dump them into CECOT regardless of being guilty of a crime, and to shoot protesters and PoC
  • Vance's endorsement of groups like the AfD, Orban et. al (AfD has been recognized as an extreme-right organization by the authorities in Germany
  • The reconstruction of the DOJ to serve and protect the executive and ignoring orange fuhrers pedophilia
  • The infiltration of the supreme court by christofascists
  • The blackmailing of TV networks which have comedians critical of Trump on air using the FCC, treatening to pull their licence
  • The misuse of military assets for PR stunts involving Kid Rock and iBrainworm Kennedy, leading to the dismissal of peopleinvestigating this event
  • The abduction of a foreign head of state to enrich Trump and his buddies
  • The witchhunt on minorities like somalians in Minnesota, drag queens and trans people nationwide
  • The ignorance of the resulting rise in violence and even murders of PoC, minorities and democrats by far-right groups, because it is a positive thing for them - other countries would have started organized action against this amount of far-right terror.
  • The designation of Antifa as a terrorist organization (do you realize who is the only group which sees Antifa as terrorists? I´ll let you in on a secret: the only people who perceive antifa as terrorists are fascists)
  • The assault on public education at large and the attempt at rewriting history, trying to color slavery as something positive for PoC
  • The bullying of every ally the US ever had on the international stage, similar to how Hitler started bullying the countries surrounding Germany in the leadup to WW2
  • The threats of invasion, annexation and exposure of long-term allies to enemy aggression

I could go on far longer, but i do not want to waste more time at you. If you are just a brainwashed, lost soul, stop watching the crap Youtube and Meta are throwing in your face, you are too easily influenced to discern the difference between neonazi propaganda and reality. If you are a true believer in that shit, my condolences go to the part of your family that doesn't want to have contact with you anymore (probably your kids and ex-wife), and the rest of what i would put here is intentionally self-censored, but you will probably get the gist.

carrylex@lemmy.world · -5 pts · 3d (1 reply)

Im not going to read that schizophrenic manifesto. Learn how to communicate properly with people and don't tell me that a certain US president lives in your walls and there are Nazis on the moon.

Have a nice day.

Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 4 pts · 3d

Lol, an illiterate fascist! You are truly part of the greatest race of all.

For everyone else, i will provide Sartre again:

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert."

And now we have arrived at the last sentence with this guy:

"If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

Tyrq@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 4d
[ removed ]
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works · 0 pts · 4d (1 reply)

These guys knowingly provide hosting infrastructure for people

  • sabotaging rail systems across France, Italy, Germany, and the Netherlands
  • sabotaging the Transalpine Pipeline (TAL)
  • doing multiple arson attacks and acts of sabotage against Germany’s rail and energy infrastructure (probably referring to "Vulkangruppe")

Polictical ideology is irrelevant when you knowingly provide a platform for terrorists you will end up in legal trouble.

there is a legal procedure that should happen then, not an immediate takedown! trump's puppets should contact the Italian authorities, get court approval to request data, if they don't comply then get the court to seize hardware, or whatever else they do before that. did any of that happen here?

Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 6 pts · 3d

No, it didn't, because A/I hasn't broken any laws, just as google doesn't break any law when indexing neonazi propaganda that is illegal in germany. A/I has been under legal attack more than once, and it is very obvious that it didn't work, because nothing they do is illegal.

Designating someone as a terrorist in a country where the law and justice mean something should need a previous sentencing for a crime that gives a legal basis for such a designation (aka planning or executing attacks, murders, blackmail, you know, the stuff the current US administration is very guilty of). This designation is the equivalent to sentencing someone to life in prison without any legal defense; the US executive took the place of Jury, Judge and Executioner all at once.

floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 9 pts · 4d

The difference here seems to be that they explicitly know what their "customers" are doing (e.g. terrorism/energy infrastructure sabotage) and allow/endorse that.

Congratulations, you drank the propaganda. They do not explicitly know what their customers are doing, because they believe in privacy and everything is encrypted. What they explicitly know is that their "customers" are not capitalists, racists, fascists, sexists, militarists, or authoritarians because they ask during registration. It is not the duty nor the right of a service provider to ensure how its users use their platform, contrary to what you have been told for decades to justify surveillance. It's not a hard concept: either criminals can get privacy too, or no one can. Sure preventing terrorist attacks is something no one can oppose, but just like that you also silence every journalist, activist and whistleblower that just wants a secure service without Uncle Sam's hands in it

sbeak@sopuli.xyz · 7 pts · 4d

The difference here seems to be that they explicitly know what their "customers" are doing (e.g. terrorism/energy infrastructure sabotage) and allow/endorse that.

A/I has denied these claims that the U.S. government has made, they are not terrorists, they merely share communication services for people who are against fascism, racism, militarism, and bigotry of all kinds. The majority of their users are regular people, perhaps activists, and the few that advocate for violence doesn't make A/I terrorists. I can guarantee you there are more extremists on Gmail than on A/I, more illegal content is distributed through services like Google Drive and MEGA than A/I does, more hate is spread by Medium and Substack compared to A/I's blog services.

The Trump admin is using the terrorist designation to restrict an organisation that does not agree with their ideology. Antifascism and protest is not terrorism.

ooterness@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 4d (1 reply)

If you believe the lies in a Trump press release, then you are the most gullible bootlicking fool on the planet.

Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus · 5 pts · 4d

Or a fascist like his rotting orange half-corpse fuhrer and his braindead lackeys.