The Bigger The Theft, The Lighter The Sentence?

cross-posted from: https://lazysoci.al/post/15810038

606 points · 43 comments · view on lemmy.world

43 Comments

mechoman444@lemmy.world · 62 pts · 2d (6 replies)

This meme is technically based on real cases, but it’s wildly misleading by design. Paul Allen wasn’t the mastermind behind the $3 billion mortgage fraud; he was a relatively small player who cooperated with prosecutors and received 40 months. The primary perpetrator, Lee Farkas, was convicted of orchestrating the scheme and sentenced to 30 years in prison.

And the other guy wasn’t sentenced to 15 years for simply “stealing $100.” He robbed a bank, threatened the teller, and was convicted of first-degree robbery. The $100 amount is basically irrelevant to the nature of the offense.

So yes, both cases happened, but presenting them as “rich guy steals $3 billion, gets 40 months / homeless guy steals $100, gets 15 years” deliberately strips away the facts to manufacture outrage. That’s not an honest comparison; it’s meme propaganda.

I also love how absolutely nobody bothered to verify the information and just automatically started hating the rich person, which is fine. They can eat themselves alive for all I care. I’m not here to defend the rich. I’m simply pointing out that this meme is only “factually correct” in the most technically superficial sense. It deliberately removes important context and presents the information in a way designed to elicit a specific emotional response. There’s a difference between presenting facts and selectively presenting facts to manufacture outrage.

BlackVenom@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 2d

Thanks!

Knee jerk reactions show the worst of us.

booly@sh.itjust.works · 10 pts · 2d (1 reply)

You're right, and it's actually not that hard to show, using actual real world examples, that the rules are stacked. Among federal criminal lawyers (and both of the examples here are federal crimes), it's basically common knowledge that the punishment for bank robbery is unusually harsh compared to other crimes, and that the risk/reward calculus just doesn't make any rational sense. It's also common knowledge that white collar fraud is both easier to get away with and more lightly punished when caught.

mechoman444@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2d

Well you know except for all the decades people are serving in prison for wire fraud.

Also, the punishment has to fit the crime. The Mastermind perpetrator got 30 years his abortion that got a little over 3 years.

I don't see any issue here.

Also first degree armed robbery. He threatens somebody with a weapon. I don't know what your issue is here.

If you're talking about how certain characters and actors and America have gotten away with serious crimes, that's all different issue in and of itself.

In this case everyone was punished in accordance with the law.

Also spreading misinformation even with it confirms your bias is bad all around.

GolfFoxtrotLima@sh.itjust.works · 5 pts · 2d

Yeah, sorry man. I’ll try to verify the info next time

Freeposity@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 1d (1 reply)

who cooperated with prosecutors

But did he feel remorseful and turn himself in? Somehow I doubt it.

mechoman444@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d

Bet he didn't feel good with that 40 months though. Time is time.

turtlesareneat@piefed.ca · 56 pts · 3d (1 reply)

One of the voices in my head is my FIL who's an ardent capitalist who's not afraid to say really horrid shit, so I always run these things by that voice.

He said the rich guy has to take more risks (to create the jobs we all depend on to survive and eat) so over time, he's more likely to take financial risks that might be less than black and white. He doesn't think it was really fraud anyway. This guy might just have been swept up in Biden's crazy red-tape bonanza, like all the financial regulations that well-meaning Democrats implemented that will destroy our economy. Meanwhile the homeless guy has slipped through the cracks so many times, arrested and walking free the next day, at taxpayer expense - committing a crime every other day in the process, also at our expense - and that these homeless guys, when you count up how many there are in every city in town, cost us far more than the white collar crime in total anyway - so getting him off the street into a correctional facility where he can get sober and learn some occupational skills is really a kindness to everyone involved. Anyway some bleeding heart judge will let him out after a few months, like they always do, so it doesn't really matter. But if you REALLY want to get thinking, if that homeless man hadn't been the victim of a public school system that taught him to be lazy, and society reinforced that by giving him enough welfare that he never had to have a job, but took taxes when he did... Well, would he be homeless today?

And that's why I don't hang out with my inlaws.

SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social · 14 pts · 2d

And that's why I don't hang out with my inlaws.

Congrats! He sounds like an asshole.

jtrek@startrek.website · 32 pts · 3d (2 replies)

Rich people have class solidarity. They're not going to go for the throat on one of their own.

heartSagan5@lemmy.zip · 13 pts · 3d (1 reply)

Nah, more like “they’ll cut a deal (the lawyers and judges can get chummy sometimes)” whereas the poor man has no deal to cut (basically, “who’s this guy”/“prison might actually give them a hot and a cot”).

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 7 pts · 2d

prison still is a hell of a lot worse off than going through the shelters. shelters may have restrictive rules (not as bad as prison), but they allow you dignity.

givesomefucks@lemmy.world · 22 pts · 3d (5 replies)

The fraud/theft sentencing disparity is pretty fucked, but if you pretend to not know that's what's causing it, we'll never get it fixed.

SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world · 5 pts · 3d (4 replies)

Joe Biden.

fartographer@lemmy.world · 18 pts · 3d (2 replies)

Joe Biden is making me have explosive shits after eating beans, lentils, and mushroom-heavy soups for the past week.

OldManBOMBIN@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d

Reminds me of the good ole days

https://youtu.be/vyh4CeQ3JNk

SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world · 2 pts · 2d

Yeah that sounds like him.

Master167@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 2d

How long until I can blame the current American president for everything? Do I have to wait until they are halfway through their term?

Prairie_Madness@lemmy.world · 14 pts · 2d (2 replies)

There's two tiers of justice in this country: The rich and everyone else

AeonFelis@lemmy.world · 9 pts · 2d

It's a spectrum, really. And you also need to weight in skin color.

DakRalter@thelemmy.club · 4 pts · 2d

The Epstein class and the rest of us.

saimen@feddit.org · 7 pts · 2d

npcknapsack@lemmy.ca · 7 pts · 2d (1 reply)

Kill one man and you're a murder. Kill a thousand and we'll crown you king.

Freeposity@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 1d

"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- French biologist and philosopher Jean Rostand

bad1080@piefed.social · 7 pts · 2d

some are more equal than others

BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 1d

If you steal even more it goes down to zero and you can become president

DrStanleyGoodspeed@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 3d

altphoto@lemmy.today · 4 pts · 2d

So the homeless need to get into crypto?

Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works · 4 pts · 2d

Insurance companies all have estimates for the value of a generic human life, i think it's around $10M, not super sure.

So all we have to do is prorate theft/fraud cases based on that. If you steal $10M (or whatever the right number is), that's life, end of story.

osanna@lemmy.vg · 3 pts · 2d (3 replies)

I mean, Bernie Madoff, the creator of the largest ponzi scheme in history, got 150 years.

Flower@sh.itjust.works · 32 pts · 2d (1 reply)

That guy stole from rich folks. That's usually harshly punished.

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 2d

also, did he show recognizance? if not, they love throwing the book at you. which 150 years sounds like

ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip · 1 pts · 2d
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obviouspornalt@fedinsfw.app · 2 pts · 3d

let's see Paul Allen's card.

xistera@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 2 pts · 2d

Go big or and go home.

HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 3d
[ removed ]
OldManBOMBIN@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 1d

Paul Allen? THE Paul Allen?

Sibshops@feddit.cl · -10 pts · 3d (2 replies)

If I had to guess. Probably violent crime vs non-violent crime. The government probably fined the CEO to pay back everything and he'll have to work to do it.

db2@lemmy.world · 33 pts · 3d

Yeah im sure he's destitute and remorseful and has become an empathetic and thoughtful fully developed human being.

Gullible@sh.itjust.works · 13 pts · 3d

No, this is just class war. relevant cgpgrey

huppakee@lemmy.world · -10 pts · 3d (4 replies)

Not saying this is fair, but prison could be better then prison the streets. Dont know the details, obviously.

Edit: should have read what I wrote before posting

TheFogan@programming.dev · 5 pts · 3d (2 replies)

You mean prison could be better than the streets... I'd say that's not entirely false. Kind of based on the raw numbers etc... bottom line we spend more money on dealing with problems caused by people in homelessness (both crimes of despiration, making hostile architecture and policing to keep them swept under the rugs and shoved into the outskirts of town, saving their lives in the ER when they collapse from hypothermia, than it actually would cost to house them).

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world · 4 pts · 2d

there's something to be said for a roof, a bed, and a hot meal. And I'm with you 100%. The problems of homelessness, especially in the US, should be solveable. We've currently got more units than households. Rent should be cheap, but they've been colluding (and there have been court cases about it).

huppakee@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 2d

You mean prison could be better than the streets..

I did yes. Having someone in prison is also expensive, giving someone proper care and housing them is imo the best solution. What made me write that is because of how hard live on the streets is and how many more health hazards there for someone sleeping outdoor compared to someone in prison. It obviously isn't fair to be locked up for 15 years, but if i had some kind of certainty i would remain homeless for that same time, I think I'd rather be in prison. But again, certainly not saying it's fair to lock him up that long for such a small amount of money and also not saying the other guy is punished enough for such a major amount of money.

story@lemmy.zip · 3 pts · 2d

financial crimes prison system is amazing. i wish i could live there