Now, would an obsessed, young director dedicated his life in a futile attempt to make the ultimate Herzog film through AI, and failed a spectacular ruin costing him everything, would that be a Herzog film?
No, because prompting a bot to make something isn’t really a compelling story.
If he was absolutely dirt-poor and had to go to extraordinary lengths to get the money to buy the AI tokens, that would give it a story, but then, the fake Herzog film becomes just another interchangeable McGuffin (and if anybody involved in the financing insists on marketability, gets changed to something relatable, like a cure for cancer, a doomsday weapon, or the AI being his hot nonfungible ape girlfriend or something).
The story isn't in the prompting of the bot. It is in the belief of this film maker that they are doing something good, making art, by reaching into the chasm of artlessness and apathy for inspiration. It is the story of a person so far gone in the idea of making a film that they complete miss the reason for film making or art in the first place.
We do not stare at car accidents and wonder about the car. We stare because we wonder about the people.
It is in the belief of this film maker that they are doing something good, making art, by reaching into the chasm of artlessness and apathy for inspiration.
How do you convey that without showing them pouring hours of time into prompting though? One can write a book chapter about prompting AI that is engaging to read because we can use 1st person perspective or 3rd person omniscience to hear the thoughts and feelings of the character. A movie forces us to look at the room, and rely on either narration or exposition to convey feelings.
Not saying it's impossible to write a good story about it. But I think film would be a particularly challenging medium.
Set out with him stating the goal "I want to make a movie about Herzog using Herzog". Now show the attempts and the output, how much failure there is. Show Herzog himself say it is a failure. Despite the criticism the film maker continues and becomes frustrated at the lack of repeated Herzog scenes that don't go anywhere - they are disconnected scenes that aren't relatable. And the computer isn't helping make the artificial scenes that would keep the film cogent.
After months and thousands spent on tokens, they have little to show for it that wasn't apparent at the start. The lack of development and the increasing pressure to make something from someone else's work (who doesn't condone what is happening) brings on disillusionment. The film maker talks about quitting but continues to look for art where there is none.
The man gives up and publishes the film. It is ignored completely. His art made of nothing finds no one who resonates with it. He has discovered the dark side of art. The lonely creator who is not able to create something good enough for attention, let alone the praise he was expecting. His finish line is empty. No one cheers for him. He is seen as a parish for even walking this path. He has become a starving artist.
Not really social commentary with such an unrealistic premise. I don't see how you can portray someone prompt-video-editing in a way that's enjoyable to watch. Finally how would the failure be anything but predictable and boring?
Herzog isn't just a director , he also writes the movies, as well as a lot of other stuff.
It doesn't somehow mean the results will be good, but it's not incoherent to direct a movie based on the screenplays he wrote to make the movies.
Like a human singing songs produced by a computer based on a musicians work. It's trying to match the lyrics, not the singing style.
33 Comments
Ariselas@piefed.ca · 84 pts · 6d
Now, would an obsessed, young director dedicated his life in a futile attempt to make the ultimate Herzog film through AI, and failed a spectacular ruin costing him everything, would that be a Herzog film?
_stranger_@lemmy.world · 24 pts · 6d
Herzog is going to make that documentary and win an Oscar for It.
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space · 17 pts · 6d
No, because prompting a bot to make something isn’t really a compelling story.
If he was absolutely dirt-poor and had to go to extraordinary lengths to get the money to buy the AI tokens, that would give it a story, but then, the fake Herzog film becomes just another interchangeable McGuffin (and if anybody involved in the financing insists on marketability, gets changed to something relatable, like a cure for cancer, a doomsday weapon, or the AI being his hot nonfungible ape girlfriend or something).
ChicoSuave@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 6d
The story isn't in the prompting of the bot. It is in the belief of this film maker that they are doing something good, making art, by reaching into the chasm of artlessness and apathy for inspiration. It is the story of a person so far gone in the idea of making a film that they complete miss the reason for film making or art in the first place.
We do not stare at car accidents and wonder about the car. We stare because we wonder about the people.
Ariselas@piefed.ca · 5 pts · 5d
This is even better when read in Herzog's voice
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space · 5 pts · 6d
So, the story of somebody who wants to have achieved something without having to actually achieve it?
ChicoSuave@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 5d
Exactly
Canconda@lemmy.ca · 1 pts · 5d
How do you convey that without showing them pouring hours of time into prompting though? One can write a book chapter about prompting AI that is engaging to read because we can use 1st person perspective or 3rd person omniscience to hear the thoughts and feelings of the character. A movie forces us to look at the room, and rely on either narration or exposition to convey feelings.
Not saying it's impossible to write a good story about it. But I think film would be a particularly challenging medium.
ChicoSuave@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 5d
Set out with him stating the goal "I want to make a movie about Herzog using Herzog". Now show the attempts and the output, how much failure there is. Show Herzog himself say it is a failure. Despite the criticism the film maker continues and becomes frustrated at the lack of repeated Herzog scenes that don't go anywhere - they are disconnected scenes that aren't relatable. And the computer isn't helping make the artificial scenes that would keep the film cogent.
After months and thousands spent on tokens, they have little to show for it that wasn't apparent at the start. The lack of development and the increasing pressure to make something from someone else's work (who doesn't condone what is happening) brings on disillusionment. The film maker talks about quitting but continues to look for art where there is none.
The man gives up and publishes the film. It is ignored completely. His art made of nothing finds no one who resonates with it. He has discovered the dark side of art. The lonely creator who is not able to create something good enough for attention, let alone the praise he was expecting. His finish line is empty. No one cheers for him. He is seen as a parish for even walking this path. He has become a starving artist.
olejellylegs@lemmy.zip · 10 pts · 6d
Dragging the goddamn server over a fucking mountain…
He will bring the internet to the Amazons no matter what.
Canconda@lemmy.ca · 6 pts · 6d
Not really social commentary with such an unrealistic premise. I don't see how you can portray someone prompt-video-editing in a way that's enjoyable to watch. Finally how would the failure be anything but predictable and boring?
UnspecificGravity@piefed.social · 5 pts · 6d
Only if the effort totally consumed the young director to the point where they died. THEN I could see Herzog actually making a movie about it.
sundray@lemmus.org · 56 pts · 6d
samus12345@sh.itjust.works · 14 pts · 6d
Snowclone@lemmy.world · 19 pts · 6d
if you're directing it anyway what does it serve to use AI to copy another director? why bother with the AI, when you can just direct it?
Canconda@lemmy.ca · 20 pts · 6d
All the footage is Ai generated I thought.
I'm just here to enjoy the thought of Sloppers getting told off in Werner's voice. Just the way he'd enunciate stupid and abysmally.... delicious.
muffedtrims@lemmy.world · 17 pts · 6d
Conan O'briens favorite audio clip from 2023
bazus1@lemmy.world · 11 pts · 6d
Yeah, missing the recording of that interview of Herzog saying,” you will fail “ could be the greatest failing of our culture.
Akido37@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 6d
I imagine we wouldn’t be talking about it otherwise
ricecake@sh.itjust.works · 2 pts · 6d
Herzog isn't just a director , he also writes the movies, as well as a lot of other stuff.
It doesn't somehow mean the results will be good, but it's not incoherent to direct a movie based on the screenplays he wrote to make the movies.
Like a human singing songs produced by a computer based on a musicians work. It's trying to match the lyrics, not the singing style.
mumblerfish@lemmy.world · 6 pts · 6d
I wonder what he thinks of this: https://www.infiniteconversation.com/
It is also stupid, but hilariously stupid.
Canconda@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 5d
The intensity of stupidity looking back at you is just amazing.
FanciestPants@lemmy.world · 5 pts · 5d
It's you against the world and you will not win, but you get to make your moves, not them. - Chang (defending an incest marriage)
jaybone@lemmy.zip · 4 pts · 6d
Out of a morbid curiosity I’m tempted to watch this. But not having seen a lot of Herzogs films, I don’t have much of a baseline to compare.
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space · 4 pts · 6d
It’s never too late to catch up.
I can recommend as starting points Aguirre, Fitzcarraldo and Stroszek, not necessarily in that order, though don’t overlook the documentaries either.
Canconda@lemmy.ca · 3 pts · 6d
https://www.filmsfatale.com/blog/2026/4/9/filmography-worship-ranking-every-werner-herzog-film
Please note this list is only his top 52 films (according to the author's opinion)
jamescathybleak@lemmy.world · 3 pts · 6d
He made 52 films?? What
Canconda@lemmy.ca · 2 pts · 6d
Dudes first acting credit is in 1963
mcheva@lemmy.dbzer0.com · 1 pts · 5d
I watched his Ghost elephant one the other day was a solid doco. I do like the on he did on the Taiga too. I love his accent and speech patterns.
ricecake@sh.itjust.works · 1 pts · 6d
https://youtube.com/watch?v=QhMo4WlBmGM
https://youtu.be/mnTU_hJoByA
"Why did the penguin cross the road? To die. Alone. Insane and unnoticed."
friend_of_satan@lemmy.world · 2 pts · 21h
"You are alone" is such a great statement to make to somebody who is using AI.
Kolanaki@pawb.social · 2 pts · 20h
"I'm not alone! I've got an AI girlfriend!"
Marthirial@lemmy.world · 1 pts · 5d
There are not enough data enters in the world to compute the relationship of Klaus Kinsky and Herzog.